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Broncos sign former Jets Safety Jim Leonhard to 1-year deal
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dbronx42


Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 3956
Location: Mile High 303
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
dbronx42 wrote:
That's a disrespect to this man as well!


John Lynch was an overrated player who brought the overall coverage ability of entire defenses down.

paul-mac wrote:
Brian Dawkins.


Awful player. He was yet another terrible McDaniels signing.


Your joking yourself if you think John Lynch was overrated while he was here... He helped get us the the playoffs several times and also was a major contrtubtor when we went to the 2005 AFC Championship game. He was one of my top 2 favorite players while he was here, so i can tell you 110% that i am honestly laughing at you calling him overrated.

Coverage was NEVER John Lynch's greatest strength. But he was one of the top 3 in the box safety's of all time. He was almost a 4th/5th LB that could stretch the field and help cover deep. If you honestly think Lynch was overrated you just lost ALL credibility with me going forward or anything. I strongly recommend you go back and actually watch some games of Lynch while he was here... Because right now you look foolish. To say the least.
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dbronx42


Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 3956
Location: Mile High 303
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
Maybe I'm just gettin' too old, but I think it's really funny that Dawkins and Lynch are mentioned as "great" Denver Safeties yet no mention at all of Dennis Smith or Billy Thompson.

I'm sorry, but thats just wrong.


Most people on this forum (at least that i know) are 18-25. So we didn't get to see those guys tear it apart for Denver. Wish i did because you hear amazing things about those guys. But i did get to see Steve 'The Smiling Assassin' Atwater destroy people. Including when he knocked out 3 guys in the Super Bowl including himself lol.

Brian Dawkins does not belong in the list alongside guys like Dennis Smith, Billy Thompson, Steve Atwater or John Lynch. His career obviously stacks up with they'res, but only as an Eagle.
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 5128
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dbronx42 wrote:
AntiSuperstar wrote:
dbronx42 wrote:
That's a disrespect to this man as well!


John Lynch was an overrated player who brought the overall coverage ability of entire defenses down.

paul-mac wrote:
Brian Dawkins.


Awful player. He was yet another terrible McDaniels signing.


Your joking yourself if you think John Lynch was overrated while he was here... He helped get us the the playoffs several times and also was a major contrtubtor when we went to the 2005 AFC Championship game. He was one of my top 2 favorite players while he was here, so i can tell you 110% that i am honestly laughing at you calling him overrated.

Coverage was NEVER John Lynch's greatest strength. But he was one of the top 3 in the box safety's of all time. He was almost a 4th/5th LB that could stretch the field and help cover deep. If you honestly think Lynch was overrated you just lost ALL credibility with me going forward or anything. I strongly recommend you go back and actually watch some games of Lynch while he was here... Because right now you look foolish. To say the least.


Thats a stretch dbronx. We've had two better in Thompson and Smith and even though Atwater was a FS I'd take him over Lynch also. Lynch isn't close to cracking Denvers top 3 let alone the leagues.
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AntiSuperstar


Joined: 07 Oct 2007
Posts: 4444
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dbronx42 wrote:
Your joking yourself if you think John Lynch was overrated while he was here... He helped get us the the playoffs several times and also was a major contrtubtor when we went to the 2005 AFC Championship game. He was one of my top 2 favorite players while he was here, so i can tell you 110% that i am honestly laughing at you calling him overrated.


John Lynch was a sack of crap when he was in Denver and he got probowl selections based strictly on his name. He's one of the worst coverage Safeties because not only did he not have the range, man coverage ability, or ability to play deep, but he wasn't even quick enough to be a consistant force in underneath coverage. He was slower than the majority of nickel linebackers in pursuit. He wasn't even very good at doing something as simple as being an over the top double teamer against slot receivers. He only occasionally delivered big hits in the passing game and some of those ended up being penalties. The amount of positive plays he made was small and what's more if it weren't for the fact that we had such a great man to man coverage corner in Champ Bailey we would have had the worst secondary in football and John Lynch would have been the main reason. The ability of teams like the Colts to pick us apart without even trying had a lot to do with the fact that we lacked Safeties who could play with range or cover anybody man to man or pick off underneath routes.

As far as run defense goes he was already declined by the time he came here.

dbronx42 wrote:
Coverage was NEVER John Lynch's greatest strength. But he was one of the top 3 in the box safety's of all time. He was almost a 4th/5th LB that could stretch the field and help cover deep. If you honestly think Lynch was overrated you just lost ALL credibility with me going forward or anything. I strongly recommend you go back and actually watch some games of Lynch while he was here... Because right now you look foolish. To say the least.


In the box Safeties are a dime a dozen and there were many John Lynch's of the world. Tampa Bay never had a problem replacing him because he wasn't any good. Dude is nothing.

This is how much I care about your opinion of my credibility:
John Lynch < Nick Ferguson
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dbronx42


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Location: Mile High 303
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
dbronx42 wrote:
AntiSuperstar wrote:
dbronx42 wrote:
That's a disrespect to this man as well!


John Lynch was an overrated player who brought the overall coverage ability of entire defenses down.

paul-mac wrote:
Brian Dawkins.


Awful player. He was yet another terrible McDaniels signing.


Your joking yourself if you think John Lynch was overrated while he was here... He helped get us the the playoffs several times and also was a major contrtubtor when we went to the 2005 AFC Championship game. He was one of my top 2 favorite players while he was here, so i can tell you 110% that i am honestly laughing at you calling him overrated.

Coverage was NEVER John Lynch's greatest strength. But he was one of the top 3 in the box safety's of all time. He was almost a 4th/5th LB that could stretch the field and help cover deep. If you honestly think Lynch was overrated you just lost ALL credibility with me going forward or anything. I strongly recommend you go back and actually watch some games of Lynch while he was here... Because right now you look foolish. To say the least.


Thats a stretch dbronx. We've had two better in Thompson and Smith and even though Atwater was a FS I'd take him over Lynch also. Lynch isn't close to cracking Denvers top 3 let alone the leagues.


That's absolutely no stretch at all... I didn't say he was a top 3 safety of all time. I said he was a top 3 IN THE BOX safety of all time. That includes both his career in Tampa and Denver. The guy is a future Hall of Famer that was an elite run stopping safety. He could also hit the lights out of people.

Steve Atwater is my favorite Bronco EVER. But he was not a better in the box safety that John Lynch. Sure Steve had a few highlights that way, but Lynch made his living that way.

If you can name 3 better in the box safety's i'll be more than glad to debate it.
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dbronx42


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
John Lynch < Nick Ferguson


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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AntiSuperstar


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dbronx42 wrote:
If you can name 3 better in the box safety's i'll be more than glad to debate it.


I wouldn't know where to start? How about all of them? Guy was an effective Tampa 2 run player in the same way that Jermaine Phillips was, he was nothing more. He was the decade earlier version of Jim Leohnard. Knew where plays were going, could run the defense, but wasn't fast enough to actually catch up to anyone. Only difference is that was a decade ago so instead of a small sucky roamer or a poor man's Bob Sanders/Troy Polamalu you had a big sucky in the box hitter with Lynch. If you want John Lynch now just move Brian Cushing to Safety and you practically have the same thing, only with worse side to side pursuit. Dude was never very good and that's why he played the easier position in the Tampa 2 defense.
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dbronx42


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
dbronx42 wrote:
If you can name 3 better in the box safety's i'll be more than glad to debate it.


I wouldn't know where to start? How about all of them? Guy was an effective Tampa 2 run player in the same way that Jermaine Phillips was, he was nothing more. He was the decade earlier version of Jim Leohnard. Knew where plays were going, could run the defense, but wasn't fast enough to actually catch up to anyone. Only difference is that was a decade ago so instead of a small sucky roamer or a poor man's Bob Sanders/Troy Polamalu you had a big sucky in the box hitter with Lynch. If you want John Lynch now just move Brian Cushing to Safety and you practically have the same thing, only with worse side to side pursuit. Dude was never very good and that's why he played the easier position in the Tampa 2 defense.




Nick Ferguson is a better safety than John Lynch...? Good god.
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AntiSuperstar


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who am I kidding talking about coverage, by the time Lynch came to Denver he couldn't even make a great Quarterback spy.

Anyone else remember Ian Gold taking on what should have been Lynch's coverage responsibilities? Laughing We had the most rangy, athletic group of Linebackers in the league and arguably some of the best in coverage yet they would still get easily isolated in coverage against passing offenses(and I'm talking 2 and 3 WR offenses because this was before the spread came into style) because we had a giant slug at Safety who couldn't handle responsibilities literally 90 other Safeties in the league could have handled. Pathetic.
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dbronx42 wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
dbronx42 wrote:
AntiSuperstar wrote:
dbronx42 wrote:
That's a disrespect to this man as well!


John Lynch was an overrated player who brought the overall coverage ability of entire defenses down.

paul-mac wrote:
Brian Dawkins.


Awful player. He was yet another terrible McDaniels signing.


Your joking yourself if you think John Lynch was overrated while he was here... He helped get us the the playoffs several times and also was a major contrtubtor when we went to the 2005 AFC Championship game. He was one of my top 2 favorite players while he was here, so i can tell you 110% that i am honestly laughing at you calling him overrated.

Coverage was NEVER John Lynch's greatest strength. But he was one of the top 3 in the box safety's of all time. He was almost a 4th/5th LB that could stretch the field and help cover deep. If you honestly think Lynch was overrated you just lost ALL credibility with me going forward or anything. I strongly recommend you go back and actually watch some games of Lynch while he was here... Because right now you look foolish. To say the least.


Thats a stretch dbronx. We've had two better in Thompson and Smith and even though Atwater was a FS I'd take him over Lynch also. Lynch isn't close to cracking Denvers top 3 let alone the leagues.


That's absolutely no stretch at all... I didn't say he was a top 3 safety of all time. I said he was a top 3 IN THE BOX safety of all time. That includes both his career in Tampa and Denver. The guy is a future Hall of Famer that was an elite run stopping safety. He could also hit the lights out of people.

Steve Atwater is my favorite Bronco EVER. But he was not a better in the box safety that John Lynch. Sure Steve had a few highlights that way, but Lynch made his living that way.

If you can name 3 better in the box safety's i'll be more than glad to debate it.


The problem is the era dbronx. Offensive changes, rule changes, etc have made them a dead breed. True "in the box" safeties had their hey-day decades ago. A lot of FS spent lots of time in the box also.

As an answer to your question, I just picked one year and made a list.
1976:
Jack Tatum
George Atkinson
Donnis Shell (couldn't even crack the starting lineup over Wagner)
Billy Thompson
Mike Wagner
Charlie Waters
Ken Houston
Tommy Cassanova

I stopped looking at teams then. Figured the list was long enough. You get my point though. You may be able to make a case for Lynch being the best "in the box" safety of his era, but of all time? He doesn't crack the top twenty.

As you said, many of you missed that era and thats a shame. Those guys were brutal and also a lot of fun to watch. You can make a similar list in the eighties and nineties but that psoition has all but disappeared in this century.
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