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ArrowheadRage58


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 4087
Location: Hate for the Donkeys is at a mile high
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DT58_lives_on wrote:
Rage, you're blatant hatred for Pioli, and your insistence that his ego is what keeps us from getting a guy like Manning amazes me. But at least you are consistent. Here are the facts, we wanted Orton, but his track record with other teams indicated that while he can be good, he can also be not very good. There is a reason he's been on so many teams my friend. We wanted Manning, he said no thanks.

The other guys, you're right we could have brought in, but keep in mind, Quinn had "some" moderate success and familiarity with Daboll. There are few that were bigger supporters of drafting a QB at somepoint than me, but I understand the hope Stanzi would develop. I just feel like if we are truly going to start building a team with depth, then taking QBs much like the Packers/Patriots do in the later rounds and hoping that they develop should be a move we are making too.

Now do I believe Pioli wants Cassel to succeed and be his guy, yes. But I'm not quite as extreme as you with viewing it as maliscious, megalomaniac complex that Scotty 2 Hotty has. But let's not pretend, all GMs want there guy to be the guy, they have to, otherwise why the hell are they drafting them?


I never said or implied that about Manning...his ego is why we don't even have anyone legitimate to compete with Cassel for the job. As for Orton, well duh he can certainly be not very good, I know that. Cassel can also be "duh, not very good". Which is why the obvious choice of the two would be Orton since he can sometimes be pretty good without the greatest of help around him...unlike Cassel. He's never really played with much around him his entire career, he had some good targets in Den, but not a running game. In KC he'd have both, so he'd likely look very good far more often than not.

And yes...I do realize it is against policy to bring in someone unless we have expired all options of players we are familiar with (regardless of the difference in ability). Evil or Very Mad


Last edited by ArrowheadRage58 on Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:35 am; edited 3 times in total
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DT58_lives_on


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rage, yeah poor wording on my part, not enough sleep and not enough coffee. What I was referring to is your belief that we didn't bring in legitimate competition because Scott wants Matt to be the guy. When I phrased it as Manning it sounded more like Manning didn't come here because of Scott's ego.
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HiccupGuy


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
HG, I noticed you neglected to mention Tannehill. Still holding a grudge against Scott for that one like me huh? Laughing


Meh, it was late and I had just gotten off from work. I forgot about him. As did a couple more.

Anyways, we wouldn't of gotten Tannehill. We would of had to trade up in order to get. (I was hoping he would fall so we could of taken him tho.)
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HiccupGuy


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

onejayhawk wrote:
We could have had Wilson, obviously, but also Foles or Oeswiler. We will have the same option in the spring.
Campbell does not have to be better than Cassel. he only needs to be better than Quinn.
The bottom line is that Cassel is mediocre, but that is a long stretch above bad. WE have a choice among several bad options.

J


I don't remember but wasn't Foles a lot like Stanzi when coming out? If so why draft another Stanzi?

Osweiler was over drafted. I would not of wanted to used a 2nd on the man.
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Rearviewmirror


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DT58_lives_on wrote:
Rage, you're blatant hatred for Pioli, and your insistence that his ego is what keeps us from getting a guy like Manning amazes me. But at least you are consistent. Here are the facts, we wanted Orton, but his track record with other teams indicated that while he can be good, he can also be not very good. There is a reason he's been on so many teams my friend. We wanted Manning, he said no thanks.

The other guys, you're right we could have brought in, but keep in mind, Quinn had "some" moderate success and familiarity with Daboll. There are few that were bigger supporters of drafting a QB at somepoint than me, but I understand the hope Stanzi would develop. I just feel like if we are truly going to start building a team with depth, then taking QBs much like the Packers/Patriots do in the later rounds and hoping that they develop should be a move we are making too.

Now do I believe Pioli wants Cassel to succeed and be his guy, yes. But I'm not quite as extreme as you with viewing it as maliscious, megalomaniac complex that Scotty 2 Hotty has. But let's not pretend, all GMs want there guy to be the guy, they have to, otherwise why the hell are they drafting them?


Quinn has never had any kind of success. That's nonsense. He had a decent game or two when he was starting in Cleveland but you can't call that success. I'm in complete agreement that Pioli won't do what is necessary to get a QB who will compete with Cassel because he wants to protect the biggest move he's made as a solo GM. I truly believe that. He says all the things that a guy who doesn't believe in his QB says (while still being positive about him) and he doesn't do what is necessary to make a change (or even give him legitimate competition)
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ArrowheadRage58


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 4087
Location: Hate for the Donkeys is at a mile high
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rearviewmirror wrote:


Quinn has never had any kind of success. That's nonsense. He had a decent game or two when he was starting in Cleveland but you can't call that success. I'm in complete agreement that Pioli won't do what is necessary to get a QB who will compete with Cassel because he wants to protect the biggest move he's made as a solo GM. I truly believe that. He says all the things that a guy who doesn't believe in his QB says (while still being positive about him) and he doesn't do what is necessary to make a change (or even give him legitimate competition)


To add to that, when approached about Cassel being a QB who can only be good with help, he tries to sell us this "that's my job" crap, to build a great team around the QB to help him succeed. Who does he think he's foolin? Does he think that makes it ok to not go after an upgrade at QB, just because he's building a nice team around him? Like that's gonna make us forget it's ALSO his job to get a QB. What a joke. I wish we didn't have to boo Cassel at softball games and stuff, he's a nice guy. Does Pioli bowl or golf or anything?
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onejayhawk


Joined: 14 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HiccupGuy wrote:
onejayhawk wrote:
We could have had Wilson, obviously, but also Foles or Oeswiler. We will have the same option in the spring.
Campbell does not have to be better than Cassel. he only needs to be better than Quinn.
The bottom line is that Cassel is mediocre, but that is a long stretch above bad. WE have a choice among several bad options.

J


I don't remember but wasn't Foles a lot like Stanzi when coming out? If so why draft another Stanzi?

Osweiler was over drafted. I would not of wanted to used a 2nd on the man.

Foles has a big arm, but a predraft had leadership/character issues. About as different from Stanzi as they come.

A lot of people thought Oeswiler would sneak into the 1st round

J
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nicfre2011


Joined: 15 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

onejayhawk wrote:
HiccupGuy wrote:
onejayhawk wrote:
We could have had Wilson, obviously, but also Foles or Oeswiler. We will have the same option in the spring.
Campbell does not have to be better than Cassel. he only needs to be better than Quinn.
The bottom line is that Cassel is mediocre, but that is a long stretch above bad. WE have a choice among several bad options.

J


I don't remember but wasn't Foles a lot like Stanzi when coming out? If so why draft another Stanzi?

Osweiler was over drafted. I would not of wanted to used a 2nd on the man.

Foles has a big arm, but a predraft had leadership/character issues. About as different from Stanzi as they come.

A lot of people thought Oeswiler would sneak into the 1st round

J


I don't know where you are getting that impression. Maybe you are confusing Osweiler with Foles as far as the personality goes? There were people talking about how Osweiler supposedly would come off as a little arrogant, aloof, etc. But nobody knows if that was just a case of teams putting smoke out there to muddle things up or not. But I never heard anything even remotely similar when it comes to Foles.
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onejayhawk


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nicfre2011 wrote:
I don't know where you are getting that impression. Maybe you are confusing Osweiler with Foles as far as the personality goes? There were people talking about how Osweiler supposedly would come off as a little arrogant, aloof, etc. But nobody knows if that was just a case of teams putting smoke out there to muddle things up or not. But I never heard anything even remotely similar when it comes to Foles.

You're right and my bad. I definitely got the two backwards. Foles is the guy that was at MSU and transfered.

So yes, Foles or Cousins would be another Stanzi.

There were people pushing Oswieler (I always screw up the spelling on him) as a high 2nd, maybe 1st round pick. Where he went was no surprise.

J
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TambaHawk


Joined: 19 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can we all just believe in Cassel this year? HE'S GOT THIS!!
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onejayhawk


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TambaHawk wrote:
Can we all just believe in Cassel this year? HE'S GOT THIS!!

Cassel is the type of QB that is very dependent on the team around him. This team is up to the task and so is he.

J
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