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GDT Pre-Season week 1 : Saints vs Patriots
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NinjaZX6R


Joined: 05 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wish this game was broadcasted live on NFL Network. Ugh.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BP wrote:
My expectations are high for Donta Hightower, Julian Edelman, Ryan Mallett, Shane Vereen, James Ihedigbo, and Donte Stallworth.


I hope you're joking with the last two?
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nihc wrote:
Chandler Jones is very likely to have a starting spot by week 6. He only has to beat out one of Nink, Scott, or Cunningham


That's some interesting math.

He has to beat out anyone else competing at the RE spot. RE and LE aren't interchangeable parts.

It's not like the Pats just say "these are the two best DE's let's line them up". The 2nd best DE could be a terrible RE (or LE) and thus wouldn't get playing time over the best RE on the roster.
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Nihc


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
Nihc wrote:
Chandler Jones is very likely to have a starting spot by week 6. He only has to beat out one of Nink, Scott, or Cunningham


That's some interesting math.

He has to beat out anyone else competing at the RE spot. RE and LE aren't interchangeable parts.

It's not like the Pats just say "these are the two best DE's let's line them up". The 2nd best DE could be a terrible RE (or LE) and thus wouldn't get playing time over the best RE on the roster.



How do you know what scheme we are going to run? Maybe BB, knowing that we have 3 starting LBs that are stout against the run, will let two DEs focus solely on rushing the passer. How do you know that BB doesn't want Jones to get reps at both end spots?

I hope our first pick starts week 1 and I think he will.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nihc wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
Nihc wrote:
Chandler Jones is very likely to have a starting spot by week 6. He only has to beat out one of Nink, Scott, or Cunningham


That's some interesting math.

He has to beat out anyone else competing at the RE spot. RE and LE aren't interchangeable parts.

It's not like the Pats just say "these are the two best DE's let's line them up". The 2nd best DE could be a terrible RE (or LE) and thus wouldn't get playing time over the best RE on the roster.



How do you know what scheme we are going to run?


I am basing my assumption off of 12 years of Belichick's history in New England, what we've seen in camp this year and his time with the Browns and Giants. While Belichick does surprise at times, some things have stayed remarkably consistent in his 25+ years in the NFL. I don't think I can remember a time when he had a full time LE who wasn't a good run defender. Mark Anderson at times last year is the best example I can think of and that comparison falls apart for a number of obvious reasons.

Quote:
Maybe BB, knowing that we have 3 starting LBs that are stout against the run, will let two DEs focus solely on rushing the passer.


Unless Belichick transforms into someone else, this is not going to happen. It's laughable. You think Belichick after 25-30 years of teaching the same principles is going to wake up and say "I'm going to go the complete opposite direction on 4 months notice (since the draft"?

Quote:
How do you know that BB doesn't want Jones to get reps at both end spots?


If Jones is worth playing as a starter at this point in his career, it will be because his pass rush ability is NFL caliber. The odds of him starting at LE seem remote. Why? Because if he's good enough to start, he should be at RE. If he isn't good enough to start, he should be a situational rusher. I don't see how his skill set translates to "good LE, not ready for RE" nor do I see a RE on the team who really projects to be better.

I'm sure BB wants Jones to get reps in practice at both spots as a part of his learning/experience. And I could see him being moved around once he gets acclimated to the NFL game. But his skill set at this point is significantly more valuable at RE in Belichick's scheme.

There are scenarios in which I could see Jones starting at RE but they all involve Andre Carter coming back fresh, healthy and playing at a 2011 level. The roster, as currently constituted, seems to favor Jones as a RE if he starts.
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Nihc


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it's laughable that BB will want to put the best players on the field at the same time. With Spikes and Hightower playing behind him on the right side, his weakness (I thought the scouting report on him was he was decent vs. the run) against the run will be masked.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nihc wrote:
I don't think it's laughable that BB will want to put the best players on the field at the same time.


Different positions require different skill sets. I'm not sure why you're not grasping that point.

A good player out of position isn't a good player any longer.

The issue at hand isn't Jones' ability to play the run. The point is right now, his pass rushing looks to be stronger (and it makes sense until he bulks up a little that he would be a stronger pass rusher than run defender, as it true of most college pass rush types).

If he's good enough to start, he will be at RE barring the scenario with Andre Carter that I mentioned.

This isn't Madden. You have to find the balance between skill sets and scheme. Based on 25+ years of history with Belichick, I'm going to say that his starting base LE next year will have plus run defending ability and that if Jones is an opening day starter it will almost certainly be at RE.
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Nihc


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is every strong side end in the NFL plus against the run?

Obviously Jones' position will eventually be weak side, but I think we could see him on both sides.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nihc wrote:
Is every strong side end in the NFL plus against the run?


What does that have to do with anything? Bill Belichick doesn't coach every other team in the league

Quote:
Obviously Jones' position will eventually be weak side, but I think we could see him on both sides.


If he's good enough to start day 1, why would he be at LE and not RE? Who is a better RE than a ready-to-go Chandler Jones?

Other than situational matchups against specific RT's, I don't see why Chandler Jones would get starting duty at LE. That he is playing 1st team RE in camp right now tells me that's where his future is as a starter and absent a huge (and surprising) revelation with one of the other players or the acquisition of external talent, I don't see a way it makes sense to start Jones at LE.
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BP


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
BP wrote:
My expectations are high for Donta Hightower, Julian Edelman, Ryan Mallett, Shane Vereen, James Ihedigbo, and Donte Stallworth.


I hope you're joking with the last two?
Why would I be joking? It's the first preseason game. The players competing for roster spots play a lot more snaps than they'll see in the regular season if they make the team and stand out in these exhibition games. Ihedigbo impressed me at training camp. He looked massive, (for a safety), and really looked comfortable on the first day of training camp despite wearing a red no-contact jersey. I think he came into camp confident this year after resigning with the team he played for last season and actually played a substantial amount of safety for, which has got to be an ego boost. Regardless of my observations from a sole, non-contact practice, these are interesting role players to me that realistically have a shot at the roster and I think they'll have a good game. Nothing really worth scoffing at.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BP wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
BP wrote:
My expectations are high for Donta Hightower, Julian Edelman, Ryan Mallett, Shane Vereen, James Ihedigbo, and Donte Stallworth.


I hope you're joking with the last two?
Why would I be joking? It's the first preseason game. The players competing for roster spots play a lot more snaps than they'll see in the regular season if they make the team and stand out in these exhibition games. Ihedigbo impressed me at training camp. He looked massive, (for a safety), and really looked comfortable on the first day of training camp despite wearing a red no-contact jersey. I think he came into camp confident this year after resigning with the team he played for last season and actually played a substantial amount of safety for, which has got to be an ego boost. Regardless of my observations from a sole, non-contact practice, these are interesting role players to me that realistically have a shot at the roster and I think they'll have a good game. Nothing really worth scoffing at.


I thought you'd be joking because saying you have "high expectations" for a backup/special teams safety who is a decidedly below-average DB and a WR who has been mostly useless since November of 2007 is a bit strange.

I doubt either guy makes the roster, though they do have something of a chance (Ihedigbo more so).

It would be like me saying I have high expectations for Josh Barrett or Bobby Carpenter. It's just a little strange for guys who even at their best are mediocre role players and are almost certainly useless outside of emergency duty or special teams.
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BP


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...my expectations are that in this game, they'll be to of the more productive players - I see both getting a lot of snaps.
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Donut


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm hoping to see how Chandler plays and his improvement from Cuse to now.

I'm interested in seeing if we use hybrid S/LB w/ Barrett and how he plays and if he shows he could be useful outside of STs.

Seeing our QBs growth. I also want to see Slates route running improvement and him be the preseason beast.

Then my normal guys I like, Ras I, Sterling, and Cunningham.

I also hope to see Vereen and/or Ridley dominate.
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GoldenboyGB


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im really wondering who is going to get early nod snaps and who's not on defense and at WR. Watching how the defense fares this early is not smart but meh I am going to be staring at the corners and the health of Ras.

Sample size better than nothing at this point. Interested really in the progression of all our players and who isn't making this years Patriots team. Its one game but def going to be enjoyable one as this is really the only time we get to see some of these guys get snaps.

I have high expectations for everyone not named Dan Koppen.
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navysaintsfan


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck this season guys! Pats are my favorite AFC Team so I will be watching you guys close. Looking forward to an entertaining game.
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