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Does the Detroit Lions Maturity Problem Start With Our Coach
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nagahide13


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 12371
Location: Stumptown
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DetroitWhat wrote:
nagahide13 wrote:
Since when are grown men not capable of being responsible for themselves?


I think the issue is mayhew setting this team up to fail with too many talented players with serious character issues. Unless we had a ray lewis on this team to put guys in check you can't keep drafting players who dropped because they have character issues.

You just can't win by drafting these idiots we have. I'll take less talent any day for perfect team chemistry.


I can't think of a specific situation where we actually did that, however... outside of Fairley, at least. We really do need a Ray Lewis like presence on this team.
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BlackandBlue


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 2781
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nagahide13 wrote:
DetroitWhat wrote:
nagahide13 wrote:
Since when are grown men not capable of being responsible for themselves?


I think the issue is mayhew setting this team up to fail with too many talented players with serious character issues. Unless we had a ray lewis on this team to put guys in check you can't keep drafting players who dropped because they have character issues.

You just can't win by drafting these idiots we have. I'll take less talent any day for perfect team chemistry.


I can't think of a specific situation where we actually did that, however... outside of Fairley, at least. We really do need a Ray Lewis like presence on this team.


Lol @ a "Ray Lewis" type.

Can you imagine the meltdown that would occur on this site if some of Suh's or Fairley's friends killed a couple of guys while they were hanging out with them, as happened in Ray Lewis' case?
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nagahide13


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackandBlue wrote:

Lol @ a "Ray Lewis" type.

Can you imagine the meltdown that would occur on this site if some of Suh's or Fairley's friends killed a couple of guys while they were hanging out with them, as happened in Ray Lewis' case?


Okay okay... a "post obstruction of justice Ray Lewis type".

But yeah, that would be... Bad.
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PackFan4Life


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 4714
Location: De Pere, WI
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't called for him to be fired, but I am expecting a higher level of leadership on the issue. He should be pushing for the immediate cut of Berry to draw the line and start fresh. He did not do that. Until he does draw the line and pushes for a line to be drawn, it is a tremendous let down to know a coach with that little leadership ability is extended. He is a good football mind, but that alone does not make you a worthy leader, coach, or for that matter, man.

I looked the other way for hopeful stalwarts like Leshoure and Fairly. But had it been a Finley or Raji, I'd still expect our Titletown brain trust to suspend them for several games to start the year. When a scrub like Berry got nailed, a strong message was due. Cutting Berry and drawing the line would have sent that message and your team would only be losing another Qb whipping boy. I hoPe you org over there figures it out, I hope the entire NFL figures it out.
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detfan782004


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 57792
Location: Omaha
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackandBlue wrote:
nagahide13 wrote:
DetroitWhat wrote:
nagahide13 wrote:
Since when are grown men not capable of being responsible for themselves?


I think the issue is mayhew setting this team up to fail with too many talented players with serious character issues. Unless we had a ray lewis on this team to put guys in check you can't keep drafting players who dropped because they have character issues.

You just can't win by drafting these idiots we have. I'll take less talent any day for perfect team chemistry.


I can't think of a specific situation where we actually did that, however... outside of Fairley, at least. We really do need a Ray Lewis like presence on this team.


Lol @ a "Ray Lewis" type.

Can you imagine the meltdown that would occur on this site if some of Suh's or Fairley's friends killed a couple of guys while they were hanging out with them, as happened in Ray Lewis' case?


What is funny is people are calling to clean up team but want a murderer in Ray Lewis on the team. Kind of opposite of what this team needs.

Well not convicted but neither was Kobe.....

Anywho
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Nnivolcm


Joined: 07 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PackFan4Life wrote:
I haven't called for him to be fired, but I am expecting a higher level of leadership on the issue. He should be pushing for the immediate cut of Berry to draw the line and start fresh. He did not do that. Until he does draw the line and pushes for a line to be drawn, it is a tremendous let down to know a coach with that little leadership ability is extended. He is a good football mind, but that alone does not make you a worthy leader, coach, or for that matter, man.

I looked the other way for hopeful stalwarts like Leshoure and Fairly. But had it been a Finley or Raji, I'd still expect our Titletown brain trust to suspend them for several games to start the year. When a scrub like Berry got nailed, a strong message was due. Cutting Berry and drawing the line would have sent that message and your team would only be losing another Qb whipping boy. I hoPe you org over there figures it out, I hope the entire NFL figures it out.


When it comes to simple assault charges, it takes little more than an accusation for an arrest to be made. There is a possibility that the charges could be dropped, we simply don't know much about the incident so a snap judgement would be extremely foolish and those kind of decisions don't make you a worthy leader, coach, or for that matter, man.

It appears you are not familiar with our team too well so I'll just go ahead and fill you in on Berry's situation with the Lions. This off season the #2 CB job was his to lose (he might have lost it with his off field actions) and our defensive coordinator loves him, he wasn't just "another Qb whipping boy" inside our locker room.

I'm not saying they shouldn't cut him because he was slated to be a starter, I'm saying wait for all the info to come out before doing so.
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IDOG_det


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Joined: 02 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PackFan4Life wrote:
I haven't called for him to be fired, but I am expecting a higher level of leadership on the issue. He should be pushing for the immediate cut of Berry to draw the line and start fresh. He did not do that. Until he does draw the line and pushes for a line to be drawn, it is a tremendous let down to know a coach with that little leadership ability is extended. He is a good football mind, but that alone does not make you a worthy leader, coach, or for that matter, man.

I looked the other way for hopeful stalwarts like Leshoure and Fairly. But had it been a Finley or Raji, I'd still expect our Titletown brain trust to suspend them for several games to start the year. When a scrub like Berry got nailed, a strong message was due. Cutting Berry and drawing the line would have sent that message and your team would only be losing another Qb whipping boy. I hoPe you org over there figures it out, I hope the entire NFL figures it out.
I think they are waiting for the legal system to play itself out. Would look dumb if they cut him then he is found innocent but it's too late because another team signed him.
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nagahide13


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 12371
Location: Stumptown
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:

What is funny is people are calling to clean up team but want a murderer in Ray Lewis on the team. Kind of opposite of what this team needs.

Well not convicted but neither was Kobe.....

Anywho


Ray Lewis was never even accused of murder except by random people that have no idea what happened. He was accused of obstruction of justice. He wasn't convicted of murder because that was never the charge brought against him. I have no idea why people continue to call him a murderer. It's completely ignorant... by the dictionary definition of the word.

Ray Lewis allegedly witnessed a murder and refused to testify against the people that committed it, that's it.
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nagahide13


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 12371
Location: Stumptown
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IDOG_det wrote:
PackFan4Life wrote:
I haven't called for him to be fired, but I am expecting a higher level of leadership on the issue. He should be pushing for the immediate cut of Berry to draw the line and start fresh. He did not do that. Until he does draw the line and pushes for a line to be drawn, it is a tremendous let down to know a coach with that little leadership ability is extended. He is a good football mind, but that alone does not make you a worthy leader, coach, or for that matter, man.

I looked the other way for hopeful stalwarts like Leshoure and Fairly. But had it been a Finley or Raji, I'd still expect our Titletown brain trust to suspend them for several games to start the year. When a scrub like Berry got nailed, a strong message was due. Cutting Berry and drawing the line would have sent that message and your team would only be losing another Qb whipping boy. I hoPe you org over there figures it out, I hope the entire NFL figures it out.
I think they are waiting for the legal system to play itself out. Would look dumb if they cut him then he is found innocent but it's too late because another team signed him.


Imagine if it was just a laser pointer... Laughing
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detfan782004


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 57792
Location: Omaha
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nagahide13 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:

What is funny is people are calling to clean up team but want a murderer in Ray Lewis on the team. Kind of opposite of what this team needs.

Well not convicted but neither was Kobe.....

Anywho


Ray Lewis was never even accused of murder except by random people that have no idea what happened. He was accused of obstruction of justice. He wasn't convicted of murder because that was never the charge brought against him. I have no idea why people continue to call him a murderer. It's completely ignorant... by the dictionary definition of the word.

Ray Lewis allegedly witnessed a murder and refused to testify against the people that committed it, that's it.


If the glOve don't fit acquitt. OJ not guilty too
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YlionsY


Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 14656
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
nagahide13 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:

What is funny is people are calling to clean up team but want a murderer in Ray Lewis on the team. Kind of opposite of what this team needs.

Well not convicted but neither was Kobe.....

Anywho


Ray Lewis was never even accused of murder except by random people that have no idea what happened. He was accused of obstruction of justice. He wasn't convicted of murder because that was never the charge brought against him. I have no idea why people continue to call him a murderer. It's completely ignorant... by the dictionary definition of the word.

Ray Lewis allegedly witnessed a murder and refused to testify against the people that committed it, that's it.


If the glOve don't fit acquitt. OJ not guilty too


What?
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detfan782004


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 57792
Location: Omaha
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YlionsY wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
nagahide13 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:

What is funny is people are calling to clean up team but want a murderer in Ray Lewis on the team. Kind of opposite of what this team needs.

Well not convicted but neither was Kobe.....

Anywho


Ray Lewis was never even accused of murder except by random people that have no idea what happened. He was accused of obstruction of justice. He wasn't convicted of murder because that was never the charge brought against him. I have no idea why people continue to call him a murderer. It's completely ignorant... by the dictionary definition of the word.

Ray Lewis allegedly witnessed a murder and refused to testify against the people that committed it, that's it.


If the glOve don't fit acquitt. OJ not guilty too


What?


Pro athletes getting away with crime is what. Then people thing way to fix team is adding one of these said players
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YlionsY


Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 14656
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
YlionsY wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
nagahide13 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:

What is funny is people are calling to clean up team but want a murderer in Ray Lewis on the team. Kind of opposite of what this team needs.

Well not convicted but neither was Kobe.....

Anywho


Ray Lewis was never even accused of murder except by random people that have no idea what happened. He was accused of obstruction of justice. He wasn't convicted of murder because that was never the charge brought against him. I have no idea why people continue to call him a murderer. It's completely ignorant... by the dictionary definition of the word.

Ray Lewis allegedly witnessed a murder and refused to testify against the people that committed it, that's it.


If the glOve don't fit acquitt. OJ not guilty too


What?


Pro athletes getting away with crime is what. Then people thing way to fix team is adding one of these said players


Obstruction of justice isn't murder.

Everything I have heard is Lewis is a locker room guy and great leader. As well as a superstar player.
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LionsFan630


Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 11255
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nagahide13 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:

What is funny is people are calling to clean up team but want a murderer in Ray Lewis on the team. Kind of opposite of what this team needs.

Well not convicted but neither was Kobe.....

Anywho



Ray Lewis allegedly witnessed a murder and refused to testify against the people that committed it, that's it.


But it was his friend that committed the murder right? And Ray Lewis was there with him.... technically wouldn't that make him an accomplice at the very least?
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diehardlionfan


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 27647
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's a big leap to label Schwartz as immature. He is a passionate hard headed individual but don't confuse emotion with immaturity.

These players are grown men and are responsible for their own behavior. The handshake incident should have no more influence on these guys than Jersey Shore.

So far I believe the Lions are taking the right approach. Whatever action the team is taking is being done quietly between the team and the individual. We can't lose sight of the fact that punishment should be corrective not punitive.

Everyone is acting like the situation is out of control but really of the seven arrests, three players have two each. What needs to happen here is an assessment of the players that have had arrests related to substances. DUI's are a very clear indicator of a substance abuser and suspensions regardless of length do nothing but allow the individual more time to abuse the substance of choice. Dexter Manley is an excellent example. Suspensions did nothing.

What needs to happen is residential treatment followed by peer, team and league monitoring. Without it the punishment likely wont make a difference.
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