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iPwn
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
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Location: Stand United
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 Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| SaveourSonics wrote: | | iPwn wrote: | | SaveourSonics wrote: | | iPwn wrote: | 3 game group mentioned above:
32 receptions - 355 yards - 1TD
Every other regular season game that year (11 games):
33 receptions - 396 yards - 1TD
Not seeing the very good possession receiver part. |
That's weird because you posted it  |
Not really sure what you're getting at here. |
He has the capability of being a damn good possession WR when targeted. Only difference between those games and the other set (aside from injury) are the amount of targets he received. |
Having the capability and actually being so are two different things. Mike Sims-Walker had some great games in 2009 that largely mirror what Williams did in 2010. I could easily say that the only difference between those games and his bad games was targets as well. But at no point was he actually very good at what he did either. And his 2009 was actually better than Williams' 2010. They both showed glimpses of potential, they never actually built on those glimpses enough to be classified as very good.
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iPwn
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| hawkman98272 wrote: | Just because his stats weren't great, doesn't mean he wasn't good when he was in shape. Wasn't a burner, but his hands were great and he could pick up the needed YAC.
Let's not confuse his poor work ethic to not being talented and not being good. |
Is JaMarcus Russell a very good QB? He had loads of talent too.
Being able to actually produce is what gets you classified as very good, not unrealized talent. He was very good for three games in his career, and a bum for the rest of them, including 11 games where he was in shape.
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| samgurl775 wrote: | | It's alright iPwn, you're my #1. |
| EliteTexan80 wrote: | | I AM TRYING TO BE PWNY! AND I AM NOT! AND THIS VEXES ME SORE!!! |
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SaveourSonics
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 45445
Location: Sleepless in Seattle
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| iPwn wrote: | | hawkman98272 wrote: | Just because his stats weren't great, doesn't mean he wasn't good when he was in shape. Wasn't a burner, but his hands were great and he could pick up the needed YAC.
Let's not confuse his poor work ethic to not being talented and not being good. |
Is JaMarcus Russell a very good QB? He had loads of talent too.
Being able to actually produce is what gets you classified as very good, not unrealized talent. He was very good for three games in his career, and a bum for the rest of them, including 11 games where he was in shape. |
Maybe you should go back to what I originally said than
| SaveourSonics wrote: | | Well that's not really fair. He may be a poor professional, but when he's actually in shape Mike Williams is a very good possession receiver. |
Obviously the statement doesn't come without a provision. Not saying Mike Williams is a very good receiver or that he was very good, but he was very good when he was in shape getting the opportunity to produce. If he could have built on that, with his skillset, he could have been a very good possession WR.
Like I originally said. Just like I could say if Shawn Merriman never got injured he could have been a very good rush LB. Makes perfect sense when you're not attempting to be combative. As a player in peak physical condition, BMW was a good receiver.
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SaveourSonics
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iPwn
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| SaveourSonics wrote: | Maybe you should go back to what I originally said than
| SaveourSonics wrote: | | Well that's not really fair. He may be a poor professional, but when he's actually in shape Mike Williams is a very good possession receiver. |
Obviously the statement doesn't come without a provision. Not saying Mike Williams is a very good receiver or that he was very good, but he was very good when he was in shape getting the opportunity to produce. If he could have built on that, with his skillset, he could have been a very good possession WR.
Like I originally said. Just like I could say if Shawn Merriman never got injured he could have been a very good rush LB. Makes perfect sense when you're not attempting to be combative. As a player in peak physical condition, BMW was a good receiver. |
When was Mike Williams in good shape then? Only for those three games?
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| samgurl775 wrote: | | It's alright iPwn, you're my #1. |
| EliteTexan80 wrote: | | I AM TRYING TO BE PWNY! AND I AM NOT! AND THIS VEXES ME SORE!!! |
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Superman(DH23)
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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Location: Abdi on the sick sig
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| SaveourSonics wrote: | | iPwn wrote: | | SaveourSonics wrote: | | iPwn wrote: | 3 game group mentioned above:
32 receptions - 355 yards - 1TD
Every other regular season game that year (11 games):
33 receptions - 396 yards - 1TD
Not seeing the very good possession receiver part. |
That's weird because you posted it |
Not really sure what you're getting at here. |
He has the capability of being a damn good possession WR when targeted. Only difference between those games and the other set (aside from injury) are the amount of targets he received. |
Well one of those games for some reason the Bears decided to cover him w/ 5'6" Tim Jennings all game. I was screaming at my TV to put Peanut on him.
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mcmurtry86
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| SaveourSonics wrote: |
Like I originally said. Just like I could say if Shawn Merriman never got injured he could have been a very good rush LB. Makes perfect sense when you're not attempting to be combative. As a player in peak physical condition, BMW was a good receiver. |
Shawne Merriman put up 10, 17 and 12.5 sacks in his first 3 years in the league. He was a 3 time Pro Bowler (yeah yeah, not worth much) and one time first team All Pro.
He was a very good rush LB. He proved it over 3 straight NFL seasons. Ignoring the questions about steroids and such, it's ridiculous to use him as the basis of comparison to a guy whose best year was under 800 yards receiving.
Mike Williams best year was - at best - "not bad" for a starting WR for less than 1 full season and even then, his stats were hardly impressive. 65 catches, 751 yards and 2 TD's is pretty mediocre. It's been done or eclipsed 51 times in the last 2 seasons.
Shawne Merriman's best years were dominant and he was amongst the game's absolute best players.
There's no comparison. Mike Williams has had 7 years to prove himself and he has less than 20 games in 7 years where he looked like a good NFL player.
There's a difference between having a good year and being a good player. Matt Jones put up 65-761 in 2008, Shaun McDonald 79-943 in 2006. Neither of those guys were good players. Just guys who put up good years. |
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X_Factor_40
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
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Location: Hockeytown
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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He has no one to blame but himself.
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49erjunkie
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| X_Factor_40 wrote: | | He has no one to blame but himself. |
or tavaris being too hesitant.
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hawksman81
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
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YlionsY
Joined: 28 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| 49erjunkie wrote: | | X_Factor_40 wrote: | | He has no one to blame but himself. |
or tavaris being too hesitant. |
To hesitant to feed him?
Not the football. Cheeseburger hot pockets.
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steelcurtain29
Joined: 04 Oct 2007
Posts: 33093
Location: Monongahela, PA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Pithy Radish wrote: | | Not surprised. He had packed on 40 pounds or so during the offseason. Last year he was slow, and took too many plays off. UDFA Baldwin played circles around him, and even surpassed his best year. |
40 more pounds? Wasn't he around 230 before? That'd put him around 270. Wow!
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SaveourSonics
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
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Location: Sleepless in Seattle
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| iPwn wrote: | | When was Mike Williams in good shape then? Only for those three games? |
Nope, good shape all year. But obviously he wasn't going to put up double digit catches every single season in his first year back in 2 off seasons. And this also goes to mcmurty's points, it's not about the raw numbers necessarily (I understand that's how everyone wants to look at it) but just watching him in games, when he was getting a high volume of targets he really couldn't be stopped. Look at the Cardinal fan earlier in this thread that talked about how good BMW was against his team. If you go back and actually watch that game and actually watch him, there's no way you can tell me that Mike could not have developed into a very good possession WR like he showed flashes of being.
| steelcurtain29 wrote: | | Pithy Radish wrote: | | Not surprised. He had packed on 40 pounds or so during the offseason. Last year he was slow, and took too many plays off. UDFA Baldwin played circles around him, and even surpassed his best year. |
40 more pounds? Wasn't he around 230 before? That'd put him around 270. Wow! |
There's absolutely nothing factual about that. It hasn't even been confirmed that we released him due to weight issues, people are just jumping to conclusions (and understandably so).
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SHONUFF
Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Posts: 3025
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:44 pm Post subject: FMW |
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From what I have read they weren't happy with the progress he's made rehabbing from his broken ankle. That, paired with his work ethic, I doubt they were very confident he'd be a factor in camp since he's seems a little heavy now. Plus, we're saving like 3.50 million with his release. I'm sure it was part economic and partly no confidence that he would be in shape for training camp/pre season.
I think he was to heavy last season, which didn't help his ability to separate. That paired with Jackson's in ability to put the ball through tight windows hurt him badly.
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iPwn
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| SaveourSonics wrote: | | iPwn wrote: | | When was Mike Williams in good shape then? Only for those three games? |
Nope, good shape all year. But obviously he wasn't going to put up double digit catches every single season in his first year back in 2 off seasons. And this also goes to mcmurty's points, it's not about the raw numbers necessarily (I understand that's how everyone wants to look at it) but just watching him in games, when he was getting a high volume of targets he really couldn't be stopped. Look at the Cardinal fan earlier in this thread that talked about how good BMW was against his team. |
Then what about the other 11 games where he was healthy and averaged 3 catches for 30-odd yards? How is that very good?
| Quote: | | If you go back and actually watch that game and actually watch him, there's no way you can tell me that Mike could not have developed into a very good possession WR like he showed flashes of being. |
I could say the exact same thing about Matt Jones and reference his drug habit. Or Reggie Williams and his issues. Or Mike Sims Walker and his injuries.
And I took exception to you stating that he is a very good possession receiver when in shape, not that he could have developed into one.
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| samgurl775 wrote: | | It's alright iPwn, you're my #1. |
| EliteTexan80 wrote: | | I AM TRYING TO BE PWNY! AND I AM NOT! AND THIS VEXES ME SORE!!! |
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