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Tzimisce


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:30 am    Post subject: Arian Foster's new diet Reply with quote

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8143634/arian-foster-houston-texans-says-going-vegan

Thoughts on this?

Foster has become one of my favorite non-Patriots over the last couple of years, and it'll be very interesting to see if he can maintain his strength and stamina without animal protein in his diet. I don't think I've ever heard of an NFL player publicly going vegan before.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony Gonzalez had the best season of his career after becoming vegan. Carl Lewis set the World Record in the 100 and long jump as a 30 year old after becoming vegan. Tony Fiametta is a 242 FB in Dallas who is vegan. Prince Fielder being vegan certain hasn't hurt his power or his waistline. Serena Williams just won another Wimbledon title as a vegan and remains one of the most physically imposing tennis players ever.

Honestly, a player actually understanding that what he puts into his body as fuel has a direct influence on his performance and endeavoring to do this in a healthier way is nothing but good news. I would encourage you to pay attention to the Olympic athletes who hyperfocus on training methods to shave hundreths of seconds off times which can be the difference between medaling and not making the squad and how many will say that once they really dedicated themselves on the nutrition side is when they finally broke through and became elite. For whatever reason, there is this outmoded mentality in football that taking down a plateful of 20 chicken wings in a sitting will make you stronger, when the reality is that most of the garbage fat filled protein that they slobber down serves only to slow them down. I find it hilarious that the same week that this becomes "a story," Adrian Peterson makes a drunken fool of himself in Houston and somehow "Texan RB doesn't eat meat" is more "scary."

I say all of this on my way out to grab an Ultimate Cheeseburger, so this has nothing to do with any hippy dippy allegiance and I am generally cynical of anyone who wants attention because of what they eat or don't eat. I could care less about all the other political statements involved with being vegan and Arian doesn't seem to being going off the Ricky Williams "herbal" deep end, so if Arian thinks it will improve his performance, I have zero problem supporting him in it and find his willingness to be "different" refreshing.

Of course, it is also a good thing he is converting during an off period as when one of my roommates after college went the leafy route, he stunk up the house with the gaseous foulness that emitted out of his cornhole for weeks if not months. Let's just say that if Chris Myers goes vegan, Matt Schaub's career, perhaps his life may be in danger do to his forced proximity to the toxicity, nor will you ever want to shake his hands that will be forever fouled by Myers brussel spout emanations.
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Tzimisce


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, couple of things...

Tony Gonzalez was never officially a vegan. He "experimented" with a vegan diet briefly, but ultimately decided to continue eating white meat.

Prince Fielder, in his own words, "was [a vegetarian] for like three months"

Tony Fiamanetta is now on the Patriots roster and considered unlikely to make the final 53. He's been a vegan for under a year so we've yet to see the full long-term effects of his diet on his performance.

I'm not saying it's impossible to be effective as a pro athlete where muscle strength [and recovery from injury] is so vital while sticking to a strict vegan diet, but the examples you offered don't exactly inspire confidence.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have zero interest in engaging in a vegan debate with you because you think you know something about the random examples I chose (while ignoring Carl Lewis, Serena Williams, Ricky Williams) and just want to shake this tree. You can find plenty of MMA folks, cyclists, soccer players, trainers, bodybuilders, and others who have been successful as vegans. Heck, Mike Tyson is vegan now. If you think gobbling down steaks is required to build "strength and stamina" you are probably still impressed by what people can bench or squat as a display of strength instead of being interested in the totality of their strength, conditioning, and flexibility which impacts performance, stamina, and durability far more than bulk.

As far as I'm concerned, I would love to see Andre Johnson and Ben Tate paying close attention to what Arian does as I'm convinced their hamstring problems are a direct result of poor training methods from the old school that looks at the quads of sprinters and thinks this can be replicated in the weight room without balancing the corresponding muscle groups, incorporating the flexibility component which is about 35% of their daily workout, or recognizing that pro football players are cutting, not running in a straight line like track athletes. How did those massive sausage fueled quads work out for Earl Campbell in the end (practically crippled by 33)?

I applaud any attempt to shake up the training methods for the Texans as for as physically imposing as Mario Williams "looked", ultimately all the hernias, pec tears, groin pulls and other injuries were partly a result of the same old school thinking where looking like a big beefeater was more important than staying healthy and preventing injury. Mario never could sustain his production without breaking down halfway through the season and I attribute part of that to his lack of dedication to a consistent program as he was notorious for truly treating the offseason as "off".
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Tzimisce


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
I have zero interest in engaging in a vegan debate with you because you think you know something about the random examples I chose (while ignoring Carl Lewis, Serena Williams, Ricky Williams) and just want to shake this tree. You can find plenty of MMA folks, cyclists, soccer players, trainers, bodybuilders, and others who have been successful as vegans.
Those were the examples you gave, so those were the examples I refuted. I'm not trying to start a flame war, I'm just saying the examples you initially offered up were flawed.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tzimisce wrote:
Apollo Stallion wrote:
I have zero interest in engaging in a vegan debate with you because you think you know something about the random examples I chose (while ignoring Carl Lewis, Serena Williams, Ricky Williams) and just want to shake this tree. You can find plenty of MMA folks, cyclists, soccer players, trainers, bodybuilders, and others who have been successful as vegans.
Those were the examples you gave, so those were the examples I refuted. I'm not trying to start a flame war, I'm just saying the examples you initially offered up were flawed.


Not exactly. That Tony Gonzalez reincorporated white meat into his diet a few seasons later does nothing to dispute that he had the best season of his career while being a strict vegan and we're talking about a much bigger dude than Arian. Ditto Prince Fielder who may not have been able to stick to a vegan diet, but had an epic season in 07 while trying. Nobody is saying Arian is going to commit for life to being vegan but this should at least put to rest any unfounded fears that his "announcement" means we're going to have him turn into "Moby" back there carrying the rock.

Furthermore, the security of Tony Fiametta's roster spot has nothing to do with his diet, but the fact that a guy of his size and strength at FB ought to dispel the notion that vegans can't still be big and strong. Ricky Williams was effective until well past the expiration date of most Rbs at 35, so we even have the RB model. Again, you fail to address others I mentioned in my initial response like Carl Lewis and Serena Williams and I'll just go ahead and add Desmond Howard to the football list. Your premise was that NFL players weren't vegan because of concerns about strength and stamina and it's just not the case. I am much more concerned about what players drink, smoke, and inject than the fact they eliminate meat and fish from their diet. I sure hope I'm drafting 3rd in my FFL draft and someone grabs Ryan Matthews because he eats meat and lets that Grape Nut eater Arian Foster drop to me.

BTW - Didn't think you were endeavoring to start a flame war. In 5 seasons of debating nuances here nobody has just bowed, laid down their keyboard at my feet, and knew that they'd been beat, so sometimes I just boldly say it myself as is the prerogative of the devil's advocate. Heck, I was even hoping the Chris Myers angle would generate some response...

Also, in case you were wondering. My Ultimate Cheeseburger was divine and I even had to undo my non-PETA approved leather belt a notch to accommodate it...
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Tzimisce


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When did Ricky Williams become a vegan? I know he's been one for a while, but I think the date is important, because none of the other NFL players mentioned were able to adhere to a strict vegan diet for very long [Fiamanetta is still ongoing, obviously, but he only became one last November]. I'm just curious if there are any examples of guys in this sport who were able to stick to the plan long-term.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tzimisce wrote:
When did Ricky Williams become a vegan? I know he's been one for a while, but I think the date is important, because none of the other NFL players mentioned were able to adhere to a strict vegan diet for very long [Fiamanetta is still ongoing, obviously, but he only became one last November]. I'm just curious if there are any examples of guys in this sport who were able to stick to the plan long-term.


Fosters not like other NFL players.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tzimisce wrote:
When did Ricky Williams become a vegan? I know he's been one for a while, but I think the date is important, because none of the other NFL players mentioned were able to adhere to a strict vegan diet for very long [Fiamanetta is still ongoing, obviously, but he only became one last November]. I'm just curious if there are any examples of guys in this sport who were able to stick to the plan long-term.


He went vegan during his 2004 yoga and pot sabbaticals and has been one ever since. Hard to compare the 00-03 version of Ricky to anything after his sojourn because of everything else that entailed, but he still was effective in his 30's when most RBs have broken down including 09 when he broke 1,100 yards and 11 tds. He was still a bruiser even last year for the Ravens. I really shudder to hold Ricky up as the model of veganism in athletes as his hippie stoner self-medicating under the guise of social anxiety disorder destroyed a good chunk of his career and that's quite different than simply giving up meat and fish as a means to improve overall health and fitness. If Arian starts giving interviews with his helmet and visor on, somebody better make him pee in a cup and stick a burger down his throat.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not entirely sure what is and isn't allowed as a Vegan. Are supplements considered "Vegan"? If so, then I don't see any issues with this. Even if they aren't, I don't think it'll be too much of an issue. I don't care really care what he does as long as he continues to perform.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

treece300e wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what is and isn't allowed as a Vegan. Are supplements considered "Vegan"? If so, then I don't see any issues with this. Even if they aren't, I don't think it'll be too much of an issue. I don't care really care what he does as long as he continues to perform.


The primary concerns in veganism are avoiding ALL animal products (including eggs, milk, etc.) and process foods. I believe there are greater and lesser strictures within the dietary culture. It almost always expands outside the realm of diet, as well. Use of any products that are animal based, like leather and fur, is also prohibited.

It's a diet with a moral component. It's extremely healthy but very expensive to maintain a balanced vegan diet.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenney wrote:
treece300e wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what is and isn't allowed as a Vegan. Are supplements considered "Vegan"? If so, then I don't see any issues with this. Even if they aren't, I don't think it'll be too much of an issue. I don't care really care what he does as long as he continues to perform.


The primary concerns in veganism are avoiding ALL animal products (including eggs, milk, etc.) and process foods. I believe there are greater and lesser strictures within the dietary culture. It almost always expands outside the realm of diet, as well. Use of any products that are animal based, like leather and fur, is also prohibited.

It's a diet with a moral component. It's extremely healthy but very expensive to maintain a balanced vegan diet.


I guess he can't hold the pigskin, then. As I stated, there are thousands of different varieties of vegans and my understanding is that Arian is simply removing meat, fish, and dairy from his diet as a health decision, not going off the deep end with the animal rights, political aspects. Arian also loves to use his twitter account in the offseason to get people's panties in a wad, so I wouldn't even be so sure that this is anything more than him just trying to use vegan principles to drop a few lbs before the season and resume his normal diet and activities.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
kenney wrote:
treece300e wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what is and isn't allowed as a Vegan. Are supplements considered "Vegan"? If so, then I don't see any issues with this. Even if they aren't, I don't think it'll be too much of an issue. I don't care really care what he does as long as he continues to perform.


The primary concerns in veganism are avoiding ALL animal products (including eggs, milk, etc.) and process foods. I believe there are greater and lesser strictures within the dietary culture. It almost always expands outside the realm of diet, as well. Use of any products that are animal based, like leather and fur, is also prohibited.

It's a diet with a moral component. It's extremely healthy but very expensive to maintain a balanced vegan diet.


I guess he can't hold the pigskin, then. As I stated, there are thousands of different varieties of vegans and my understanding is that Arian is simply removing meat, fish, and dairy from his diet as a health decision, not going off the deep end with the animal rights, political aspects. Arian also loves to use his twitter account in the offseason to get people's panties in a wad, so I wouldn't even be so sure that this is anything more than him just trying to use vegan principles to drop a few lbs before the season and resume his normal diet and activities.


Early footballs were made with an inflated pig's blatter. It's been a while since the footballs were actually made with pig's skin.

I figured I would be your vegan representative - here are some clarifications.
1) There is only 1 kind of vegan. Vegans. Not thousands. You may be thinking of pescatarians, vegetarians, ova-lacto vegetarians... but there's just one vegan.
2) It's not a dietary choice. It's personaly philosophy and a way of life. If you don't eat animal products but you still wear leather - you're just a hypocritical vegetarian. Veganism means two things. First - in terms of diet it means that you don't consume any products made from animals or from the mistreatment of animals. This includes eggs, honey, cheese, milk, meat, fish... everything. Secondly it means that you don't wear, purchase, or use any products that are made from animals or where animals have been used in the production of. No leather or any other animal skin or fur. Lots of products also use animals that you wouldn't necessarily think of - it's a long list and I recommend Google for a comprehensive look. Also it has nothing to do with processed foods - excpet in the case where those foods contain animal products.
3) You can eat supplements but many of them contain whey (from cow's milk) or gelatin (usually made from ground up horse bones). So the trick is finding supplements that are animal-free.
4) Being vegan doesn't mean that you're an animal-rights activists or political wacko. Many of us are pretty normal people who work amongst you. You'd never know we are vegan until you see us eating Quinoa salad.
5) Not more expensive. Less expensive actually. Meat, fish and cheese are very expensive. If you're only buying cheetos and Coke Zero - replacing that with produce and healthy foods would be more expensive. But if you're replacing steak with legumes, whole grains or tofu - it's less expensive.

Any questions - feel free to PM me - I love talking about veganism and clearing up misconceptions. Good luck to Arian Foster!

This is a good site if you want more info. http://www.vegansociety.com/
Be careful believing everything you read about vegans or veganism. Like a lot of things - it's often misrepresented.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^^ Jello is made of ground up horse bones?!
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treece300e


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SwiftTexan wrote:
Apollo Stallion wrote:
kenney wrote:
treece300e wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what is and isn't allowed as a Vegan. Are supplements considered "Vegan"? If so, then I don't see any issues with this. Even if they aren't, I don't think it'll be too much of an issue. I don't care really care what he does as long as he continues to perform.


The primary concerns in veganism are avoiding ALL animal products (including eggs, milk, etc.) and process foods. I believe there are greater and lesser strictures within the dietary culture. It almost always expands outside the realm of diet, as well. Use of any products that are animal based, like leather and fur, is also prohibited.

It's a diet with a moral component. It's extremely healthy but very expensive to maintain a balanced vegan diet.


I guess he can't hold the pigskin, then. As I stated, there are thousands of different varieties of vegans and my understanding is that Arian is simply removing meat, fish, and dairy from his diet as a health decision, not going off the deep end with the animal rights, political aspects. Arian also loves to use his twitter account in the offseason to get people's panties in a wad, so I wouldn't even be so sure that this is anything more than him just trying to use vegan principles to drop a few lbs before the season and resume his normal diet and activities.


Early footballs were made with an inflated pig's blatter. It's been a while since the footballs were actually made with pig's skin.

I figured I would be your vegan representative - here are some clarifications.
1) There is only 1 kind of vegan. Vegans. Not thousands. You may be thinking of pescatarians, vegetarians, ova-lacto vegetarians... but there's just one vegan.
2) It's not a dietary choice. It's personaly philosophy and a way of life. If you don't eat animal products but you still wear leather - you're just a hypocritical vegetarian. Veganism means two things. First - in terms of diet it means that you don't consume any products made from animals or from the mistreatment of animals. This includes eggs, honey, cheese, milk, meat, fish... everything. Secondly it means that you don't wear, purchase, or use any products that are made from animals or where animals have been used in the production of. No leather or any other animal skin or fur. Lots of products also use animals that you wouldn't necessarily think of - it's a long list and I recommend Google for a comprehensive look. Also it has nothing to do with processed foods - excpet in the case where those foods contain animal products.
3) You can eat supplements but many of them contain whey (from cow's milk) or gelatin (usually made from ground up horse bones). So the trick is finding supplements that are animal-free.
4) Being vegan doesn't mean that you're an animal-rights activists or political wacko. Many of us are pretty normal people who work amongst you. You'd never know we are vegan until you see us eating Quinoa salad.
5) Not more expensive. Less expensive actually. Meat, fish and cheese are very expensive. If you're only buying cheetos and Coke Zero - replacing that with produce and healthy foods would be more expensive. But if you're replacing steak with legumes, whole grains or tofu - it's less expensive.

Any questions - feel free to PM me - I love talking about veganism and clearing up misconceptions. Good luck to Arian Foster!

This is a good site if you want more info. http://www.vegansociety.com/
Be careful believing everything you read about vegans or veganism. Like a lot of things - it's often misrepresented.


Thank you for the information. I have no interest in becoming vegan myself, but it never hurts to learn about other lifestyles. I would assume there are numerous supplements available that are within the Vegan standards that Arian can take if necessary. As long as he performs, I don't care what he eats. If he became an in-your-face activist about animal rights or something I'd be a little annoyed, but that's true of anyone regardless of the belief they are trying to shove down your throat.
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