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| "Do you believe that Tony Romo has the most pressure out of any current playing non Super Bowl wining quarterback to win a Super Bowl?" |
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| Total Votes : 19 |
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King John
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 1191
Location: Flotown, Tx
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 Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:15 am Post subject: |
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Wow, this went off topic, but yeah KD is a super star, I'm sure a lot of people know him from that "Doodle Jump" Sprint commercial. As for Romo I'd definitely think he's under the most pressure to win next season.
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The_Slamman
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 11669
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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I've followed the NBA closely for over 30 years. KD is widely recognized by the NBA media as a top 3 player. However, KD is not to the point yet where he even gets superstar treatment from the NBA itself. People who follow the NBA know what I'm talking about. In the NBA, superstars get special treatment from the league and refs. And by special treatment, I simply mean the benefit of the doubt on on close plays. There are literally dozens of examples of this from the playoffs. The refs put KD in early foul trouble. The free throw disparity between KD (31), Dwayne Wade (40), and James (46). The no call on James on KD at the end of game 2. James and Wade were allowed to be much more aggressive on defense. And, above all else, the exposure of the Thunder in prime time games which heavily favored the Heat and Lakers. KD is well on his way to being the best player in the NBA and may become the greatest scorer in NBA history... But the NBA brass isnt ready to trust him to bring in the ratings over the Heat and Lakers. But, KD is only 23. He's got a couple of years before he will really start to feel the pressure to win the championship and barring serious injury OKC is clearly the favorite to return to the finals next year and beyond. And, mark my words, next year in the finals he will get more superstar treatment from the NBA.
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flyingmonkey30
Joined: 04 Mar 2007
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PincheJimmy
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 742
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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I just called my Mom and she is as casual as it gets, Like the Spurs since she is from there. She KNOWS who Kevin Durant is. Plan, this is one of the few times that you are WRONG! just admit and move on  |
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Nextyearfordaboyz
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 16202
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| TheStarStillShines wrote: | | plan9misfit wrote: | | Nice dodge, NYFDB. His accomplishments on the court are making him a superstar in basketball, yet you still can't grasp the difference between being a superstar beyond the sport you play in vs being known off the court simply by your reputation. Durant is not at that point yet, even though he led OKC to the Finals. He's not a major household name at this point. He's not in that upper echelon of athlete, and few people are. So what "evidence" would you like? I already sampled every living member of my immediate family who are causal sports fans. Would you like me to ask the dead ones? Did you want me to walk around my neighborhood and do a survey to make you feel better? Or, is your common sense and ability to differentiate between being a superstar in your own sport and those that sport's fans and being a superstar because of the brand you have established regardless of your sport so poor that you can't even admit your mistake when your "defense" even disproves your point? |
Every sportswriter and analysts would consider Kevin Durant a superstar. What you're talking about is a "media star", where the average person, who may or may not follow sports, knows about the person. Because a person may be known by a good portion of the population doesn't mean s/he is a superstar.
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Now, some superstars are well know, like Troy Polamalu, Peyton Manning, and Ray Lewis. But then again, a lot of people know who Tebow, Odom, and Humphries are. Media stardom does not equate to "super stardom". |
My biggest issue is that this whole thing is so undefined. To say awareness among "casual fans" is the determinant of superstardom, though, is definitely silly. For example, Peyton Manning, according to Nielson, has less than 50% awareness among the general population. So none of these athletes are quite as "household names" as you think.
I've provided studies and statistics to back my claim. Still, no one can seem to provide me any legitimate evidence that indicates that "casual fans" don't, in fact, know who Kevin Durant is. Or that "casual fan" awareness should be the determining factor of superstardom in the first place.
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plan9misfit
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 17983
Location: RIP: B2TB, T14, & S.A. We miss you.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| PincheJimmy wrote: | | I just called my Mom and she is as casual as it gets, Like the Spurs since she is from there. She KNOWS who Kevin Durant is. Plan, this is one of the few times that you are WRONG! just admit and move on |
I'm glad that you too can't see the forest for the trees. To dumb it down for all of you. Here goes:
A player can be a superstar within his own sport.
Kevin Durant IS a superstar within his sport of basketball.
A player can also be a superstar who transcends sports.
Kevin Durant is NOT an athlete who transcends sports.
Meaning, if someone were to ask a casual fan or a lamens person who does not follow a particular sport to name a superstar player, it is unlikely that KD's name would be mentioned ahead of someone like LeBron James or Kobe Bryant currently, or guys like MJ or Magic Johnson historically. Why? Because those guys have transcended their sports and moved to the upper echelon of stardom where their celebrity is just as, if not more, well known than their performances within their sport. Kevin Durant has not risen to that level.
Do you understand now? Because I can't dumb it down any more than that.
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| The_Slamman wrote: | | It's like we are in a win now mentality with lose now personnel. |
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Nextyearfordaboyz
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 16202
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| plan9misfit wrote: | | PincheJimmy wrote: | | I just called my Mom and she is as casual as it gets, Like the Spurs since she is from there. She KNOWS who Kevin Durant is. Plan, this is one of the few times that you are WRONG! just admit and move on |
I'm glad that you too can't see the forest for the trees. To dumb it down for all of you. Here goes:
A player can be a superstar within his own sport.
Kevin Durant IS a superstar within his sport of basketball.
A player can also be a superstar who transcends sports.
Kevin Durant is NOT an athlete who transcends sports.
Meaning, if someone were to ask a casual fan or a lamens person who does not follow a particular sport to name a superstar player, it is unlikely that KD's name would be mentioned ahead of someone like LeBron James or Kobe Bryant currently, or guys like MJ or Magic Johnson historically. Why? Because those guys have transcended their sports and moved to the upper echelon of stardom where their celebrity is just as, if not more, well known than their performances within their sport. Kevin Durant has not risen to that level. |
You say it. But again, that doesn't make it true. I think he would definitely be in the top-5 mentioned current players in your scenario.
Give me evidence that I even might be wrong.
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flyingmonkey30
Joined: 04 Mar 2007
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Nextyearfordaboyz
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 16202
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| flyingmonkey30 wrote: | | This is not an argument in which evidence can truly be provided. Its all subjective, how I look at it may be different than how somebody else looks at it. Its like asking who the best NFL player of all time is. You can have all the stats in the world, but its all subjective |
Saying Aaron Rodgers is a good quarterback is just as subjective. But I can provide a whole lot of evidence that supports the theory that he's a good quarterback as well. But if you are going to come at me with claims that he isn't a good quarterback, you better give me something more than "because I said he isn't".
Besides, the percentage of people who know who someone is, isn't subjective. We may not know what it is, but I've provided quite a bit of evidence that suggests the number is likely high (Jersey sales, All Star voting, rankings based on Nielsen data). I haven't seen one shred of evidence that would indicate otherwise.
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plan9misfit
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 17983
Location: RIP: B2TB, T14, & S.A. We miss you.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Nextyearfordaboyz wrote: | | flyingmonkey30 wrote: | | This is not an argument in which evidence can truly be provided. Its all subjective, how I look at it may be different than how somebody else looks at it. Its like asking who the best NFL player of all time is. You can have all the stats in the world, but its all subjective |
Saying Aaron Rodgers is a good quarterback is just as subjective. But I can provide a whole lot of evidence that supports the theory that he's a good quarterback as well. But if you are going to come at me with claims that he isn't a good quarterback, you better give me something more than "because I said he isn't".
Besides, the percentage of people who know who someone is, isn't subjective. We may not know what it is, but I've provided quite a bit of evidence that suggests the number is likely high (Jersey sales, All Star voting, rankings based on Nielsen data). I haven't seen one shred of evidence that would indicate otherwise. |
Again, who votes on All Star games? Who buys jerseys? FANS do. Ordinary people who don't follow the sport do not. So using that as the crux of an argument is flawed.
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| The_Slamman wrote: | | It's like we are in a win now mentality with lose now personnel. |
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flyingmonkey30
Joined: 04 Mar 2007
Posts: 5113
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Nextyearfordaboyz wrote: | | flyingmonkey30 wrote: | | This is not an argument in which evidence can truly be provided. Its all subjective, how I look at it may be different than how somebody else looks at it. Its like asking who the best NFL player of all time is. You can have all the stats in the world, but its all subjective |
Saying Aaron Rodgers is a good quarterback is just as subjective. But I can provide a whole lot of evidence that supports the theory that he's a good quarterback as well. But if you are going to come at me with claims that he isn't a good quarterback, you better give me something more than "because I said he isn't".
Besides, the percentage of people who know who someone is, isn't subjective. We may not know what it is, but I've provided quite a bit of evidence that suggests the number is likely high (Jersey sales, All Star voting, rankings based on Nielsen data). I haven't seen one shred of evidence that would indicate otherwise. |
I was more referring to the original question, is Romo the athlete under the most pressure to win. From what you are saying, I agree. I gave a bad example that made it seem like I was talking about the argument between you and Plan. But from the standpoint of the original question, you can tell me all the things about the Cowboys haven't won in X amount of years or that Romo is under more pressure because he is the more popular player based on some random surveys. I know its a pretty self explanatory point, but I don't think all this can be put on Romo because he is a more popular player than say Phillip Rivers, who is under just as much pressure to lead his team to the promised land
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TheStarStillShines
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 8260
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Nextyearfordaboyz wrote: | | plan9misfit wrote: | | PincheJimmy wrote: | | I just called my Mom and she is as casual as it gets, Like the Spurs since she is from there. She KNOWS who Kevin Durant is. Plan, this is one of the few times that you are WRONG! just admit and move on |
I'm glad that you too can't see the forest for the trees. To dumb it down for all of you. Here goes:
A player can be a superstar within his own sport.
Kevin Durant IS a superstar within his sport of basketball.
A player can also be a superstar who transcends sports.
Kevin Durant is NOT an athlete who transcends sports.
Meaning, if someone were to ask a casual fan or a lamens person who does not follow a particular sport to name a superstar player, it is unlikely that KD's name would be mentioned ahead of someone like LeBron James or Kobe Bryant currently, or guys like MJ or Magic Johnson historically. Why? Because those guys have transcended their sports and moved to the upper echelon of stardom where their celebrity is just as, if not more, well known than their performances within their sport. Kevin Durant has not risen to that level. |
You say it. But again, that doesn't make it true. I think he would definitely be in the top-5 mentioned current players in your scenario.
Give me evidence that I even might be wrong. |
Come on next. Don't you know that Tim Tebow, Lamar Odom, and Kris Humphries have "transcended their sports"?
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Nextyearfordaboyz
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 16202
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| plan9misfit wrote: | | Nextyearfordaboyz wrote: | | flyingmonkey30 wrote: | | This is not an argument in which evidence can truly be provided. Its all subjective, how I look at it may be different than how somebody else looks at it. Its like asking who the best NFL player of all time is. You can have all the stats in the world, but its all subjective |
Saying Aaron Rodgers is a good quarterback is just as subjective. But I can provide a whole lot of evidence that supports the theory that he's a good quarterback as well. But if you are going to come at me with claims that he isn't a good quarterback, you better give me something more than "because I said he isn't".
Besides, the percentage of people who know who someone is, isn't subjective. We may not know what it is, but I've provided quite a bit of evidence that suggests the number is likely high (Jersey sales, All Star voting, rankings based on Nielsen data). I haven't seen one shred of evidence that would indicate otherwise. |
Again, who votes on All Star games? Who buys jerseys? FANS do. Ordinary people who don't follow the sport do not. So using that as the crux of an argument is flawed. |
Ok, so give me some evidence, any evidence that even suggests he isn't a superstar by anyone's definition. You say "casual fans" don't know who he is. What evidence do you have to support that statement besides your own conjecture?
You have yet to even get that far, much less why that counts as the definition of a superstar. Peyton Manning has less than 50% awareness according to Nielsen. By your definition, there are virtually no superstars.
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The_Slamman
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 11669
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Nextyearfordaboyz wrote: | | plan9misfit wrote: | | Nextyearfordaboyz wrote: | | flyingmonkey30 wrote: | | This is not an argument in which evidence can truly be provided. Its all subjective, how I look at it may be different than how somebody else looks at it. Its like asking who the best NFL player of all time is. You can have all the stats in the world, but its all subjective |
Saying Aaron Rodgers is a good quarterback is just as subjective. But I can provide a whole lot of evidence that supports the theory that he's a good quarterback as well. But if you are going to come at me with claims that he isn't a good quarterback, you better give me something more than "because I said he isn't".
Besides, the percentage of people who know who someone is, isn't subjective. We may not know what it is, but I've provided quite a bit of evidence that suggests the number is likely high (Jersey sales, All Star voting, rankings based on Nielsen data). I haven't seen one shred of evidence that would indicate otherwise. |
Again, who votes on All Star games? Who buys jerseys? FANS do. Ordinary people who don't follow the sport do not. So using that as the crux of an argument is flawed. |
Ok, so give me some evidence, any evidence that even suggests he isn't a superstar by anyone's definition. You say "casual fans" don't know who he is. What evidence do you have to support that statement besides your own conjecture?
You have yet to even get that far, much less why that counts as the definition of a superstar. Peyton Manning has less than 50% awareness according to Nielsen. By your definition, there are virtually no superstars. |
NYFDB, you are unwittingly confirming Plan9's position. If 50% do not know who Payton Manning is... What does that say about KD. Manning: 1) has been a SB MVP, 2) has been on hundreds of commercials, 3) is or was considered the best player of the most popular sport in the US by a large margin 4) and has played in some of the most watched games in NFL history. KD doesn't compare to that yet. The NFL beat out American Idol as the most watched tv program in America. The NBA playoffs don't even compare to regular season Sunday night football in terms of rating. So, if 50% do not know who Manning is... The number has to be quite a bit smaller for KD... Especially given the fact that so few NBA games are on national TV. The vast majority are on TNT and ESPN. Whereas NFL has much more national exposure.
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| MaddHatter wrote: | | Brian Price is still as talented as he ever was. |
On May 9th, 2013, Brian Price was waived by the Dallas Cowboys. |
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Nextyearfordaboyz
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 16202
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Slamman wrote: | | Nextyearfordaboyz wrote: | | plan9misfit wrote: | | Nextyearfordaboyz wrote: | | flyingmonkey30 wrote: | | This is not an argument in which evidence can truly be provided. Its all subjective, how I look at it may be different than how somebody else looks at it. Its like asking who the best NFL player of all time is. You can have all the stats in the world, but its all subjective |
Saying Aaron Rodgers is a good quarterback is just as subjective. But I can provide a whole lot of evidence that supports the theory that he's a good quarterback as well. But if you are going to come at me with claims that he isn't a good quarterback, you better give me something more than "because I said he isn't".
Besides, the percentage of people who know who someone is, isn't subjective. We may not know what it is, but I've provided quite a bit of evidence that suggests the number is likely high (Jersey sales, All Star voting, rankings based on Nielsen data). I haven't seen one shred of evidence that would indicate otherwise. |
Again, who votes on All Star games? Who buys jerseys? FANS do. Ordinary people who don't follow the sport do not. So using that as the crux of an argument is flawed. |
Ok, so give me some evidence, any evidence that even suggests he isn't a superstar by anyone's definition. You say "casual fans" don't know who he is. What evidence do you have to support that statement besides your own conjecture?
You have yet to even get that far, much less why that counts as the definition of a superstar. Peyton Manning has less than 50% awareness according to Nielsen. By your definition, there are virtually no superstars. |
NYFDB, you are unwittingly confirming Plan9's position. If 50% do not know who Payton Manning is... What does that say about KD. Manning: 1) has been a SB MVP, 2) has been on hundreds of commercials, 3) is or was considered the best player of the most popular sport in the US by a large margin 4) and has played in some of the most watched games in NFL history. KD doesn't compare to that yet. The NFL beat out American Idol as the most watched tv program in America. The NBA playoffs don't even compare to regular season Sunday night football in terms of rating. So, if 50% do not know who Manning is... The number has to be quite a bit smaller for KD... Especially given the fact that so few NBA games are on national TV. The vast majority are on TNT and ESPN. Whereas NFL has much more national exposure. |
Just because Peyton Manning might be a bigger superstar, doesn't mean Kevin Durant is not a superstar. Does the list of superstar athletes stop at #3?
The point is show that the "household name" metric of superstardom is a dumb on. There are far more factors that go into what makes a superstar.
But even if we are using that metric, I would wager that Kevin Durant is right in the A-Rod and Tony Romo range, guys Plan9 has called superstars.
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