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RavensWin520


Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 16612
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:51 pm    Post subject: "B" Teams Reply with quote

Was just thinking how nice Spanish teams have it, and I think one of the reasons Barca's youth setup is so amazing is due to Spain allowing the reserve teams to play in the same league system as the senior team. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Barca's youth system is only good because of this competitive advantage. They clearly have outstanding coaches from U8 onwards, great scouts, great developmental plans, etc. but I don't think anyone can deny how much Barcelona B helps. They even used to have a Barcelona C playing in the 4th division for their youth team.

Current Barcelona players who played for Barcelona B:

Puyol: 89 games
Valdes: 77 games
Xavi: 61 games
Thiago: 59 games
Pedro: 55 games
Iniesta: 54 games
Busquets:: 32 games
Messi: 22 games

Pretty incredible...6 guys who are automatic selections for the starting lineup all with a lot of experience for Barcelona B. By the time young players break into the first team at Barca, they already have 1-3 seasons worth of first team experience playing in the exact same system.

Current Barcelona B players who, among others, are highly rated:

Roberto: 83 games
dos Santos: 81 games
Montoya: 75 games
Muniesa: 70 games
Rafinha: 48 games
Tello: 39 games
Gomez: 39 games
Deulofeu: 35 games

Most of those players, especially Deulofeu, are wanted by other elite clubs across Europe.


So why doesn't England adopt this system? I haven't really researched it and with all the British posters on here I'm sure someone knows. I remember when Roman helped his friend buy Vitesse, and then loaned a bunch of Chelsea players there, there was rumors he wanted to set something like this up for Chelsea in England, but would have to start in the bottom tier of English football (I don't mean League 2 I mean like the 7th or 8th tier whatever it is). Obviously, no one is going to do that. Not only would it take at least 7 years to get into the championship, the first 6 would not help the club due to the competition level.

From reading up on Wikipedia, it sounds like Barcelona B was founded in 1934 as an independent club and in 1943 hooked up with Barcelona. Then in 1956 went independent again, before rejoining the Barcelona setup in 1968. So obviously they didn't have to start in the bottom tier, they just had to form a partnership with a lower team. Why can't Chelsea, City, United do this?

A lot of people always bash the young British players, this type of setup would not only help the club tremendously, but also the national team. You would see many more young players break through with this type of setup. Young players don't really get a chance at top clubs unless they establish themselves elsewhere, which is always risky due to all the factors involved with a loan.

A player who goes on loan has to be clearly better than the player they are replacing, or there would be no incentive for the manager to bench his own player for the loaned player. A lot of times, players are loaned to bad teams who get into relegation battles and the manager prefers experience over talent. Sometimes, the player doesn't fit the system. The player could do well but it is a completely different system than the loaning team so they could struggle upon return. Etc. Just a ton of factors that can go wrong with loans.

Having a "B" Team play in the Championship would allow the club to control the system of play, where the player is playing, develop chemistry, get young players first team experience (the #1 benefit imo), have their own coaching staff work with them, can still train with the senior team and get called up/sent down, etc. So many great benefits.

A player like Ryan Bertrand going on loan to six different teams before breaking into the first team is an absolute joke imo.

I also think the fans would like it. Seeing all their young players play competitive games would be worth watching for the bigger teams.

So why doesn't England adapt to the Spanish system? Their young players would be getting much more first team experience and more of a chance to break through as they would be able to showcase their talents.

Again, not saying this is the reason Barca produces so many good players. I think it is a key contributing factor however. And I'm not saying Chelsea/City/United would start producing players every year. One of the key benefits of Barca's system is they play the same style from the time they are young to the time they break through. Chelsea's style would chance every six months Laughing
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ukjets21


Joined: 31 Jan 2008
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Location: Newcastle, from Carlisle
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a Liverpool fan I'd love for this to happen.

However as a Carlisle United fan I'd hate for Carlisle to become some sort of Newcastle United B team (unlikely it'd be Carlisle chosen for that but the point remains). Trying to find enough lower league teams willing to give up independence to become premier league vassals would be impossible.
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yankee0724


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just saying, there's a reason there were only two B teams in Liga Adelante last season.
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UofMfan909 wrote:
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texans_uk


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yankee0724 wrote:
Just saying, there's a reason there were only two B teams in Liga Adelante last season.


Only?
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91jmay


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because in England smaller football teams have great histories and are loved by there local communities. In Spain something like 75% of people are Real or Barca fans. In England I'd be gob smacked if one team had more than 40% of support.

B Teams might be a good idea for developing talent, but in terms of the local fan bases they would despise it. If Walsall (for sake of argument) the smallest local team to me were turned into Aston Villa's (the biggest club near me) B team they would have about 500 fans go to watch and the club and history would die.

Terrible idea IMO.
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yankee0724


Joined: 12 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

texans_uk wrote:
yankee0724 wrote:
Just saying, there's a reason there were only two B teams in Liga Adelante last season.


Only?


The only B teams in Liga Adelante last season were Barcelona B and Villarreal B. All of the others were in the 3rd or 4th tiers.
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texans_uk


Joined: 26 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yankee0724 wrote:
texans_uk wrote:
yankee0724 wrote:
Just saying, there's a reason there were only two B teams in Liga Adelante last season.


Only?


The only B teams in Liga Adelante last season were Barcelona B and Villarreal B. All of the others were in the 3rd or 4th tiers.


There were only 2 reserve teams playing in the 2nd tier of Spanish football, that surprises you?
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yankee0724


Joined: 12 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

texans_uk wrote:
yankee0724 wrote:
texans_uk wrote:
yankee0724 wrote:
Just saying, there's a reason there were only two B teams in Liga Adelante last season.


Only?


The only B teams in Liga Adelante last season were Barcelona B and Villarreal B. All of the others were in the 3rd or 4th tiers.


There were only 2 reserve teams playing in the 2nd tier of Spanish football, that surprises you?


No? I said it because the way he's talking about having reserve teams in the Championship, he's making it seem like Liga Adelante is filled with nothing but B teams.
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also, yankee.. you usually have pretty good taste in things

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texans_uk


Joined: 26 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yankee0724 wrote:
texans_uk wrote:
yankee0724 wrote:
texans_uk wrote:
yankee0724 wrote:
Just saying, there's a reason there were only two B teams in Liga Adelante last season.


Only?


The only B teams in Liga Adelante last season were Barcelona B and Villarreal B. All of the others were in the 3rd or 4th tiers.


There were only 2 reserve teams playing in the 2nd tier of Spanish football, that surprises you?


No? I said it because the way he's talking about having reserve teams in the Championship, he's making it seem like Liga Adelante is filled with nothing but B teams.


They have what half a dozen in the first four tiers?
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yankee0724


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

texans_uk wrote:
yankee0724 wrote:
texans_uk wrote:
yankee0724 wrote:
texans_uk wrote:
yankee0724 wrote:
Just saying, there's a reason there were only two B teams in Liga Adelante last season.


Only?


The only B teams in Liga Adelante last season were Barcelona B and Villarreal B. All of the others were in the 3rd or 4th tiers.


There were only 2 reserve teams playing in the 2nd tier of Spanish football, that surprises you?


No? I said it because the way he's talking about having reserve teams in the Championship, he's making it seem like Liga Adelante is filled with nothing but B teams.


They have what half a dozen in the first four tiers?


According to FM [since I ad it up] all the teams in La Liga except Granada had their B team in the 2nd-4th divisions, with 2 in Liga Adelante.

I only said anything because this quote is making it seem like all Spanish B teams are in the second division.

Quote:
Having a "B" Team play in the Championship would allow the club to control the system of play, where the player is playing, develop chemistry, get young players first team experience (the #1 benefit imo), have their own coaching staff work with them, can still train with the senior team and get called up/sent down, etc. So many great benefits.

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also, yankee.. you usually have pretty good taste in things

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yankee0724


Joined: 12 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yankee0724 wrote:
texans_uk wrote:
yankee0724 wrote:
texans_uk wrote:
yankee0724 wrote:
texans_uk wrote:
yankee0724 wrote:
Just saying, there's a reason there were only two B teams in Liga Adelante last season.


Only?


The only B teams in Liga Adelante last season were Barcelona B and Villarreal B. All of the others were in the 3rd or 4th tiers.


There were only 2 reserve teams playing in the 2nd tier of Spanish football, that surprises you?


No? I said it because the way he's talking about having reserve teams in the Championship, he's making it seem like Liga Adelante is filled with nothing but B teams.


They have what half a dozen in the first four tiers?


According to FM [since I ad it up] all the teams in La Liga except Granada had their B team in the 2nd-4th divisions, with 2 in Liga Adelante.

I only said anything because this quote is making it seem like all Spanish B teams are in the second division.

Quote:
Having a "B" Team play in the Championship would allow the club to control the system of play, where the player is playing, develop chemistry, get young players first team experience (the #1 benefit imo), have their own coaching staff work with them, can still train with the senior team and get called up/sent down, etc. So many great benefits.


I'd also like to throw out there that the 3rd division has 4 groups with 20 teams in each one. And the 4th division has 18 groups of around the same number teams.
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The Wyzzinator


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How would that work?

Arsenal B ----> Manchester City B ----> Loan to Arsenal A?
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texans_uk


Joined: 26 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having "B" teams play in competitive leagues through tiers 2-4 definitely helps.
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kempus


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like a good idea.

Chelsea take over Fulham
Spurs take over West Ham
Newcastle take over Sunderland
Man City take over Man United

and so on....

Seriously though, it will never happen.
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texans_uk


Joined: 26 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kempus wrote:
Newcastle take over Sunderland
Man City take over Man United

and so on....

Seriously though, it will never happen.


Arsenal take over Tottenham

Makes sense.
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