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2013 Offseason Top 5 Priorities?
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Apollo Stallion


Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 5597
Location: Battle Red State
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jargin wrote:
Lets be honest this game is about one thing winning super bowls. This team has a better chance of winning one with Schaub at the qb position than with anyone else. That is obvious to me.


As far as I'm concerned DB has had 1 season as a top 10 LT, 1 as top 16, and his first two seasons he was somewhere between 20 and 30 and I wasn't sure he was going to make it as a starter. Matt Schaub has finished those same 4 seasons 7th, 7th, 9th, and 6th in QB rating and was #2 in the AFC last year behind only hall of famer Brady.

Since AX2 refuses to remind me of any Super Bowl champs since Jonathan Ogden's Ravens where the LT was a pro bowler and the QB was not (or even Super Bowl teams featuring a top flight LT since the Ravens), I'll consider this horse officially beaten to death.

Now what I would find to be a more interesting conversation would be to determine if we could get a top flight WR or CB for the same dollars we will likely use to lock up Brown or Barwin would you do it? Just to put a few names out there, how about Greg Jennings, Victor Cruz, or Steve Smith at WR or Antoine Cason, Aqib Talib, or Dominique Rogers-Cromartie at CB. Not quite ready to weigh in but I will submit that we have proven we can develop o-lineman and OLBs in our system even with lower draft picks, but have failed miserably in developing WRs and CBs despite plenty of draft picks spent on the cause.

BTW - I left Mike Wallace out of conversation as he is supposedly looking for Fitzgerald/AJ money which is nutty since he's still relatively one dimensional. For the record, I am a huge Wallace fan, especially with a mutli-dimensional receiver like AJ next to him, but he should be in Vincent Jackson, Desean Jackson $50-$55 million value in which case I'd send Barwin or Brown packing in seconds to get Wallace.
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treece300e


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I'm dedicated enough at the time to do all the research, it really seems that Tackle has a higher "hit" rating than QB when it comes to drafting. With the importance of position, it would be expected that we'd address the position in the first round, assuming FA is too costly. I'd guess that we'll be drafting later than 20 in next year's draft, and I would feel more comfortable picking up a LT in that range than a QB, as they have been far too coveted and overdrafted in the first 20 picks the past few years.

If we look only at this year, the Tackles available in the first round after pick 20 were:
Riley Reiff
Mitchell Schwartz
Jonathan Martin
Jeff Allen
Mike Adams
Donald Stephenson


QBs available after 20 were:
Brandon Weeden
Russell Wilson
Nick Foles


I honestly would feel more comfortable with all of those tackles, any QB not named Weeden. While next year will be different, I think the talent level and impact of Tackles is greater than that of the QB talent. While I'm not as critical as some, the play of Yates last year was not enough to make me feel comfortable with handing him the keys. That doesn't mean I have no hope for him, but I'd rather keep Schaub if he's healthy and performing. Brown is a great LT, but I think it kills a franchise more to have a mediocre QB than a mediocre LT.
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mse326


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To Apollo's question

No I wouldn't I don't think.

Regarding Barwin, a pass rush is, imo at leat, the single most important part of the defense and aside from having a good QB the most importan thing to have in general. As we were saying when letting Mario go, we have no depth at OLB. We'd be left with Reed and Mercilus. Even if we assume that Mercilus will be good an injury and we are dead. Watt adds a lot compared to most 3-4 DE but not enough to make up for that and frankly I expect to either release Smith next year or not resign him the year after.

In regards to Brown, maybe a bit will be determined by this year, but he was a top 3 OT last year. And as much as we can develop o-lineman I don't know that I'd say we have it already (Butler and Newton is really all we have) and we saw how long it took for Brown. Further getting rid of 3/5ths of the line when familiarity is so important in the ZBS is just asking to regress in both the passing and most importantly running game.

I don't think we need a top flight WR. We just need a good #2 and someone we think can develop into a #1 (don't necessarilly have to be the same person) and corner again we just need a solid #2 not a top flight guy. And I'm not even convinced that the corners you mentioned are top guys. Talib is not coming here so I'm not even going to discuss that. DRC is Antonio level at tackling which we do value in our defense. I don't like how we seem to value that over covering ability, but I do value it enough that I wouldn't pay someone like DRC what he'll demand. Cason hasn't impressed me at all. Spotty coverage himself and he too isn't really going to help in run defense. While I'm sure their are others my basic point stands that I think we are better with Kareem and both Barwin and Brown then with a top CB and losing one of them. Though I want to make clear that isn't saying I don't want to upgrade KJ if he doesn't show us this year he can be a dependable #2. Just that I think we can get that cheap enough to not lose Brown or Barwin and we don't need to go with a superstar #2.
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JBell523


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not a Texans fan, but some of you guys are severely under appreciating Schaub.

He's in the same tier as guys like Romo, Rivers, and Ryan. All good QB's with good #'s, but need post-season success (and probably a ring) to be considered "elite".

You won't realize just how good Schaub is until he's gone.
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lumberjackchris


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JBell523 wrote:
I'm not a Texans fan, but some of you guys are severely under appreciating Schaub.

He's in the same tier as guys like Romo, Rivers, and Ryan. All good QB's with good #'s, but need post-season success (and probably a ring) to be considered "elite".

You won't realize just how good Schaub is until he's gone.


This guys right! Just look at teams like the Redskins or Dophlins who have spent over a decade trying to find a franchise QB and even look at what Washington gave up to get RG3.

Franchise QB's just don't grow on trees and we have a solid one, who should be able to play through another 5 year deal and not have much of a drop off.
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EliteTexan80


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JBell523 wrote:
I'm not a Texans fan, but some of you guys are severely under appreciating Schaub.

He's in the same tier as guys like Romo, Rivers, and Ryan. All good QB's with good #'s, but need post-season success (and probably a ring) to be considered "elite".

You won't realize just how good Schaub is until he's gone.


Amen, brother. Amen. Some people think QBs grow on trees, but that's simply not the case.
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EliteTexan80 wrote:
I wanna be a mod.

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bunnyracin


Joined: 28 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EliteTexan80 wrote:
JBell523 wrote:
I'm not a Texans fan, but some of you guys are severely under appreciating Schaub.

He's in the same tier as guys like Romo, Rivers, and Ryan. All good QB's with good #'s, but need post-season success (and probably a ring) to be considered "elite".

You won't realize just how good Schaub is until he's gone.


Amen, brother. Amen. Some people think QBs grow on trees, but that's simply not the case.


+1
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DreDay80


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
texans_uk wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
Brown protecting our future Qb, if its Yates then so be it.....JMHO, take it or leave it, im out


You can't just say Hasselbeck > Schaub and then say "I'm out"

Cop out.


Ok, MAYBE at this point in their careers I over valued Matt H, BUT in the early 200s he was better.


I guess my point was Matt Schaub is nothing special. A solid QB no doubt, but he leaves a lot to be desired in the mobility department and far too often wide outs have to sit and wait for the ball, meaning lack of arm strength. The system we run depends a lot on film study, timing and accuracy. I think we could find someone with better attributes and the same ability to learn our offense under Gary.

Again, Im not saying get rid of Matt, well deep down I am, but for this thread, Im simply saying I VALUE Brown higher than Matt. Matt has yet to stay healthy consecutive years and you cannot simply ignore that because he gives you a hard on, the guy has flaws and when it comes down to spending tens of millions of dollars, you have to prioritize and he is not number 1 going into next off-season.

He will fall even farther off the charts if he gets injured again this season.


I agree with Schaub has a weak arm and in 2010 it was ridiculous how many times he underthrew AJ on sure-fire TDs but you're using Hasselbeck as an example? He has a weaker arm than Schaub for god's sake. Accuracy > arm strength although I will admit Schaub would be a borderline top 5 QB if his arm was stronger.
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nicfre2011


Joined: 15 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys, Chiefs fan here...
I want to get your opinion on something - I am working on a 2013 1st Round Mock and I have the Texans picking #31 (FYI, Packers are picking #32). What do you guys think about SMU defensive end Margus Hunt at pick #31?

He is expected to be a monster in offseason workouts, has excellent size at 6'-7", 288 lbs. with tremendous athleticism. He is going to be 26, so the age is a factor plus he is rather inexperienced. I know you have Antonio Smith opposite J.J. Watt, but what do you think about having two extremely physically gifted defensive ends with high motors in Hunt and Watt?
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nicfre2011 wrote:
Hey guys, Chiefs fan here...
I want to get your opinion on something - I am working on a 2013 1st Round Mock and I have the Texans picking #31 (FYI, Packers are picking #32). What do you guys think about SMU defensive end Margus Hunt at pick #31?

He is expected to be a monster in offseason workouts, has excellent size at 6'-7", 288 lbs. with tremendous athleticism. He is going to be 26, so the age is a factor plus he is rather inexperienced. I know you have Antonio Smith opposite J.J. Watt, but what do you think about having two extremely physically gifted defensive ends with high motors in Hunt and Watt?


1) thank you, thank you, thank you, for placing this question within a thread that made sense vs. starting a new thread for a mock draft question as so many do

2) man, would I love to see the Texans drafting #31 even if it meant losing to the Packers (only non acceptable Super Bowl loss would be to the Cowboys).

3) way early in my knowledge base to comment on a specific player like Hunt, but you can find plenty of debate on where we place DE on the needs list under the Jared Crick thread here. Personally, I think we would be nuts to focus on DE in the first with Antonio Smith still having plenty of years left, Watt just getting started and Crick having potential as a rotational guy.

4) practically impossible to guess 2013 needs today, but I think you will find far more support for #2WR, #2CB, and perhaps RT if the Butler/Newton experiment doesn't pan out. Safety is also a possibility at that point in the first as Quin will be a FA and doesn't deserve playmaker money and Daniel Manning will be 32 next season with a big contract at a position where losing a step can hinder effectiveness in a hurry.

5) At #31, I would most strongly consider a TE if there is someone worthy like the Colts got at #33 with Fleener. Tyler Eifert at Notre Dame is a guy I'm going to be watching out for this season and Joseph Fauria at UCLA is going to draw plenty of Gronk comparisons before he is done as a 6' 7" monster.
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treece300e


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
nicfre2011 wrote:
Hey guys, Chiefs fan here...
I want to get your opinion on something - I am working on a 2013 1st Round Mock and I have the Texans picking #31 (FYI, Packers are picking #32). What do you guys think about SMU defensive end Margus Hunt at pick #31?

He is expected to be a monster in offseason workouts, has excellent size at 6'-7", 288 lbs. with tremendous athleticism. He is going to be 26, so the age is a factor plus he is rather inexperienced. I know you have Antonio Smith opposite J.J. Watt, but what do you think about having two extremely physically gifted defensive ends with high motors in Hunt and Watt?


1) thank you, thank you, thank you, for placing this question within a thread that made sense vs. starting a new thread for a mock draft question as so many do

2) man, would I love to see the Texans drafting #31 even if it meant losing to the Packers (only non acceptable Super Bowl loss would be to the Cowboys).

3) way early in my knowledge base to comment on a specific player like Hunt, but you can find plenty of debate on where we place DE on the needs list under the Jared Crick thread here. Personally, I think we would be nuts to focus on DE in the first with Antonio Smith still having plenty of years left, Watt just getting started and Crick having potential as a rotational guy.

4) practically impossible to guess 2013 needs today, but I think you will find far more support for #2WR, #2CB, and perhaps RT if the Butler/Newton experiment doesn't pan out. Safety is also a possibility at that point in the first as Quin will be a FA and doesn't deserve playmaker money and Daniel Manning will be 32 next season with a big contract at a position where losing a step can hinder effectiveness in a hurry.

5) At #31, I would most strongly consider a TE if there is someone worthy like the Colts got at #33 with Fleener. Tyler Eifert at Notre Dame is a guy I'm going to be watching out for this season and Joseph Fauria at UCLA is going to draw plenty of Gronk comparisons before he is done as a 6' 7" monster.


As Apollo stated, it's obviously up in the air. If we continued with our current roster into next season, I'd say we'd have to look at taking a WR in the first. I know we went back to back in the 3rd and 4th this year, but I don't know if either of those receivers will ever be a #1. A TE would be really nice, and that is an ideal position for drafting a top-notch TE, but if there is a top 3 WR available, I think that's the route we need to go. Justin Hunter from Tennessee is a player that has a lot of potential, and the size that we tend to deem desirable. I don't think we'd reach far for a WR in the first, so if most of the top-tier WRs are gone, I'd probably go with a Safety, CB or Tackle (in that order). Obviously if there is a big, dominating NT, that would also be a possibility with Cody being on the last year of his contract.

If you listed some players that are still available for the respective positions, we may be able to narrow it down more as schools, background and style similarities will weigh-in.
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion/treece300e,
YW on putting it in this thread, I figured I could slip my question in here and avoid cluttering your forum with a topic on Hunt.
Awesome feedback guys! I am working on a big 2012 NFL mock offseason and was struggling to decide who to have go to the Texans. It is funny you mentioned wide receiver and cornerback as two potential target positions because those are the two positions I was going back and forth on. Before I considered Margus Hunt I had Iowa senior cornerback Micah Hyde penciled in at #31. Here are some of the prospects at wide receiver, cornerback, and safety that are already off of the board in my mock so far, in no particular order (I also have Tyler Eifert already selected) :

Robert Woods, WR, USC (Junior)
Keenan Allen, WR, California (Junior)
Da’Rick Rogers, WR, Tennessee (Junior)
Marquess Wilson, WR, Washington State (Junior)
Marcus Davis, WR, Virginia Tech (Senior)
David Amerson, CB, North Carolina State (Junior)
Xavier Rhodes, CB, Florida State (Junior)
Eric Reid, S, LSU (Junior)
Robert Lester, S, Alabama (Senior)
Tyrann Mathieu, S/CB, LSU (Junior)
T.J. McDonald, S, USC (Senior)

Some of the potential candidates at the positions mentioned that might warrant serious consideration at #31 (height, weight, approx. 40 yard dash from nfldraftscout.com) :

Terrance Williams, WR, Baylor (Senior), 6’-1”, 205 lbs., 4.49 (I don’t know if he is a future #1, he probably has the potential but IMO more than likely he has a realistic ceiling of developing into an average #1 to solid/good #2. I see him as a second round receiver with all of the juniors above declaring)

Micah Hyde, CB, Iowa (Senior), 6’-1”, 185 lbs., 4.53

Johnny Adams, CB, Michigan State (Senior), 5’-11”, 175 lbs., 4.42 (I didn’t really consider Adams largely because of his size in your defensive scheme, does Phillips prefer bigger cornerbacks?)

Carrington Byndom, CB, Texas (Junior), 6’-0”, 180 lbs., 4.45 (Seems a possible fit, what do you guys think?

Logan Ryan, CB, Rutgers (Junior), 6’-0”, 193 lbs., 4.53 (Another possible fit IMO)

Jordan Poyer, CB, Oregon State (Senior), 5’-11”, 190 lbs., 4.49 (Poyer was arrested in connection with trespassing at a nightclub near the Oregon State campus in May)

Bacarri Rambo, S, Georgia (Senior), 6’-0”, 218 lbs., 4.52 (IMO, I don’t see him as a 1st round grade safety when it is all said and done)

Ray Ray Armstrong, S, Miami (Senior), 6’-4”, 216 lbs., 4.54 (IMO, another player like Rambo that I don’t see ending up with a 1st round grade and not sure he would be a great fit for your defense..but you guys know more about this than I do)

FYI, here is your regular season and playoffs in my mock offseason (I only included the Houston related). I haven’t done free agents, if I do that could obviously change my mock.

2012 Houston Texans Regular Season

Week 1 : Miami Dolphins (L) @ Houston Texans (W)
Week 2 : Houston Texans (W) @ Jacksonville Jaguars (L)
Week 3 : Houston Texans (W) @ Denver Broncos (L)
Week 4 : Tennessee Titans (W) @ Houston Texans (L)
Week 5 : Houston Texans (W) @ New York Jets (L)
Week 6 : Green Bay Packers (W) @ Houston Texans (L)
Week 7 : Baltimore Ravens (L) @ Houston Texans (W)
Week 8 bye
Week 9 : Buffalo Bills (L) @ Houston Texans (W)
Week 10 : Houston Texans (W) @ Chicago Bears (L)
Week 11 : Jacksonville Jaguars (L) @ Houston Texans (W)
Week 12 : Houston Texans (L) @ Detroit Lions (W)
Week 13 : Houston Texans (W) @ Tennessee Titans (L)
Week 14 : Houston Texans (W) @ New England Patriots (L)
Week 15 : Indianapolis Colts (L) @ Houston Texans (W)
Week 16 : Minnesota Vikings (L) @ Houston Texans (W)
Week 17 : Houston Texans (W) @ Indianapolis Colts (L)

Final Regular Season Standings

Team (Wins-Losses).....Winning %.....Opponent Winning %

AFC South
*-Houston Texans (13-3).....0.813.....0.481
Tennessee Titans (8-8 ).....0.500.....0.508
Indianapolis Colts (4-12).....0.250.....0.524
Jacksonville Jaguars (3-13).....0.188.....0.547

* - Clinched Division and Homefield Advantage

AFC Divisional Round
(Seed #4) Kansas City Chiefs (L) @ (Seed #1) Houston Texans (W)

AFC Championship
(Seed #2) New England Patriots (L) @ (Seed #1) Houston Texans (W)

Super Bowl
Houston Texans (L) vs. Green Bay Packers (W)

Head Coaching Changes
The San Diego Chargers fire head coach Norv Turner and hire Houston Texan’s defensive coordinator Wade Phillips
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