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Marco79


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
He is no different than many 18 and19 year olds, Tressel said in an exclusive interview with SportsRadio 610. I think people have to remember that his mistakes were youthful mistakes and they were not any of criminal nature. They were in really judgment versus any criminality. I would let DeVier take my house for six weeks and not worry one bit. I have no concern about his character ongoing.

Tressel on Posey who knows him 1000000000000 times better than anyone of us.

And ET I am not disagreeing with you that he may be rusty, but JCH was saying that we should have taken any one of those WRs before Posey because their better. Absolutely no one can say that right now. Literally no one. They have not played a game yet we have no idea who is going to be better than who. In a year or two or three we will be able to tell, but 3 weeks into OTAs? Come on.
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Grasspike


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marco79 wrote:
Quote:
He is no different than many 18 and19 year olds, Tressel said in an exclusive interview with SportsRadio 610. I think people have to remember that his mistakes were youthful mistakes and they were not any of criminal nature. They were in really judgment versus any criminality. I would let DeVier take my house for six weeks and not worry one bit. I have no concern about his character ongoing.

Tressel on Posey who knows him 1000000000000 times better than anyone of us.

And ET I am not disagreeing with you that he may be rusty, but JCH was saying that we should have taken any one of those WRs before Posey because their better. Absolutely no one can say that right now. Literally no one. They have not played a game yet we have no idea who is going to be better than who. In a year or two or three we will be able to tell, but 3 weeks into OTAs? Come on.


I agree with you in principle that it's way, way too early to judge Posey as a player, but you have to realize that when you take a player that has Posey's red flags, his performance comes under extra scrutiny.

And I wouldn't trust Tressel's words at all. Why would he say anything bad about Posey? He was his college coach, and you don't generally go around badmouthing former players, no matter how bad their behavior was. Just look at Urban Meyer's comments about his last years at Florida, or any college coach talking about any player they have coached.

Guys on the forum have to realize that players are not people, they are investments. Human interest stories are for the media. All that matters to the team is performance. While we might look at a DUI as a human mistake, to teams there is a dollar amount for it that cannot be taken away by former coaches' declarations that the player is actually a great guy.
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EliteTexan80


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marco79 wrote:
And ET I am not disagreeing with you that he may be rusty, but JCH was saying that we should have taken any one of those WRs before Posey because their better. Absolutely no one can say that right now. Literally no one. They have not played a game yet we have no idea who is going to be better than who. In a year or two or three we will be able to tell, but 3 weeks into OTAs? Come on.


I kind of get that, but you have SOME idea, right? I mean, we all know that Michael Floyd is more or less better than the rest of the names mentioned, correct?

I see where jch is coming from; Prior to Posey being our guy, NONE of us had any kind of believe that Posey was better than any of the names mentioned. Highly doubt that anyone had him as a 5th-6th round player at best. The names jch mentioned all had their flaws, but for the most part, they were all better players than Posey - even when Posey had a full season of work to evaluate.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
Jeez, the hate Posey receives by some here is just unreal. The kid sold some gear and got some cash, whoop-di-doo.....He practiced all year, helped his team and did this all while knowing he had no shot at playing. That tales dedication and love for the game. He is a hard worker and will get better, even if it means a Hawaiian trip to IR resort.


I would not mind bringing in Ocho, see what he brings to the table. Unlike New England, we call plays and routes for him to run, from what I understand, the Pats allow the wideout to come to the line and then decide what to run, and Brady has to agree without speaking and know what the wideout will do. We run NOTHING like that and if he runs what is called, then what is the big deal??? He was pretty quiet the last year and seemed to work hard. Give him a call for camp


No, what is unreal is how many times people around here want to dismiss college football players participating in a conspiracy selling merchandise to a major Ohio drug operation for cash and other benefits valued in excess of $50k. Even the teammate that admitted that pot became a problem for him (Mike Adams) wasn't dumb enough to continue to seek benefits from multiple other sources that had already gotten their QB booted out of college football and their coach fired. Giving this idiot "credit" for still showing up to practice is ridiculous as he brazenly felt that the NCAA wouldn't hit him with a 2nd suspension and even after the second 4 games suspension he still had 3 to play (side note - how stupid is it that the NCAA doesn't bar suspended players from the team like they do in the NFL - wouldn't you want to keep bad influences AWAY from the team, especially with the continued problems at OSU?). Are you telling me we give him "points" for not just quitting? He still got to play the final 3 games of his Senior year and the Senior Bowl folks. It's as stupid as Steeler fans giving Big Ben for "overcoming adversity" when every ounce of adversity in his career he has brought upon himself.

You are totally right to point out that we are just through OTAs and it's far too early to brand the kid as a pro, but first impressions are important and NOBODY was happy with their first impression of this guy. Considering that he was a relative non factor in 3 Ohio State losses to complete his Senior year and mostly negative reviews of him at the Senior Bowl, we're talking about a player who hasn't done much of anything positive on a football field since 2010. If he came into OTAs and exhibited a great attitude and willingness to go to the ends of the earth for the team that overlooked all the baggage to draft him 2-4 rounds earlier than projected, this wouldn't be a conversation, but instead he came off like an entitled brat who was in bad shape who didn't respond particularly well to being "coached." He's still got time to turn it around, but it continues to make absolutely no sense to draft "a project" in the 3rd when we had comparatively game ready options in Rueben Randle and Mohamed Sanu sitting in our laps and it's not like Posey was some "raw" talent like Hill, Quick, or Streeter with some big upside down the road if brought along slowly. I still think Posey is much closer to UDFAs like Dwight Jones and Jeff Fuller than he is to most of the guys taken in the 2nd and 3rd (and 4th if Keshawn Martin is any indication).
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jch1911


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EliteTexan80 wrote:
Marco79 wrote:
And ET I am not disagreeing with you that he may be rusty, but JCH was saying that we should have taken any one of those WRs before Posey because their better. Absolutely no one can say that right now. Literally no one. They have not played a game yet we have no idea who is going to be better than who. In a year or two or three we will be able to tell, but 3 weeks into OTAs? Come on.


I kind of get that, but you have SOME idea, right? I mean, we all know that Michael Floyd is more or less better than the rest of the names mentioned, correct?

I see where jch is coming from; Prior to Posey being our guy, NONE of us had any kind of believe that Posey was better than any of the names mentioned. Highly doubt that anyone had him as a 5th-6th round player at best. The names jch mentioned all had their flaws, but for the most part, they were all better players than Posey - even when Posey had a full season of work to evaluate.


This was my point (thanks ET)... Koobs had "a feelin" about Posey and he literally (IIRC) was Koobs' call as far as a draft selection.

So sink or swim, he remains Koobs' guy. As Apollo was pointing out, even Koobs was down on the guy right now.

Now that being said, do I hope Posey is the second coming of AJ? Heck yeah I do. I am a Texans' fan first and foremost. I remember being flabbergasted by the JJ Watt selection last year .... FOR THE FIRST FIVE MINUTES. But then you looked at his body of work and his measureables and you said: this is why Rick makes the calls based upon input from Koobs & Wade & Ricky D. BTW I own 4 Texans' jerseys: (1) AJ in Battle Red; (2) Inaugural Season Jersey (#32 & name = Houston); (3) David Carr authentic that I taped over Carr with "Next Man Up" (it was a gift from an ex-gf); and (4) JJ Watt.

Now re: Posey, I do not know ANYONE outside of some Texans' fans with blinders on or Jim Tressell that was saying this kid was a 3rd round pick. Heck... what made him so different from Dwight Jones who was an UDFA and couldn't stand the Texas heat for more than 10 days!?! (I am glad that Posey has at least made it this far.)

Getting back to my point (and what others have pointed out) this team is built to have success right now. Our two biggest holes (IMHO): WR #2 and CB#2. I still hope we pick up a veteran CB to share snaps with KJ - because a full season of him as our #2 CB scares the day lights out of me (but not as much as because he will have Manning & GQ backing him up).

What we saw with our offense last season - esp. in the playoffs - was that teams took away AJ and said "we dare you to throw to anyone else". This was one of the deepest WR drafts IN HISTORY and you take a shot on one of the riskiest propositions in the WHOLE DRAFT. C'mon man... does that make sense to you? There were much surer bets who could do the three things we ask our receivers to do: (1) run the right route; (2) block; and (3) catch the ball (after 10 or 15 yards).

I am not saying Posey cannot do those things, I am saying there were other players who had shown that they could. I do not think any of us has access to college practice film - so clearly Koobs saw something that almost no one else in the NFL or scouting community saw.

EDIT: No fair! I was typing my response and watching TV before I had seen Apollo's comments. LMAO b/c we both compared Posey to D. Jones
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marco79 wrote:
Quote:
He is no different than many 18 and19 year olds, Tressel said in an exclusive interview with SportsRadio 610. I think people have to remember that his mistakes were youthful mistakes and they were not any of criminal nature. They were in really judgment versus any criminality. I would let DeVier take my house for six weeks and not worry one bit. I have no concern about his character ongoing.

Tressel on Posey who knows him 1000000000000 times better than anyone of us.

And ET I am not disagreeing with you that he may be rusty, but JCH was saying that we should have taken any one of those WRs before Posey because their better. Absolutely no one can say that right now. Literally no one. They have not played a game yet we have no idea who is going to be better than who. In a year or two or three we will be able to tell, but 3 weeks into OTAs? Come on.


Really Marco? Joe Paterno and others at Penn State vouched for Jerry Sandusky's character and how did that work out for his victims? Pete Carroll might as well bring in Dr. Drew with his personal NFL druggie rehab out in Seattle and stuck by Reggie Bush just long enough to get himself set up in Seattle and leave USC with vacated championships and sanctions. Father of the year, Andy Reid, has nothing but glowing things to say about Mike Vick's character. I guess it was a surprise to some that a guy like Bobby Petrino who walked out on his team and his owner who he pledged allegiance to mid season could put his mistress who was engaged to a colleague on the Arkansas payroll and lie about what was going on when clearly busted red handed (and faced). You left out that Posey's momma thinks he's a good kid, too. Next to a player's mom, you may not find a single less credible source than a college football coach at least when it comes to comments on the record. BTW - There are prison's full of 18 & 19 year olds who made "youthful mistakes" and used excuses like "i just wanted to help pay momma's rent."

Although I wouldn't expect Tressel to understand that getting paid money for work you didn't do is commonly called "stealing" especially when you consider the ties Bobby "Soprano" DiGeronimo has. How would you like to be one of the poor minimum wage stiffs working for his excavation company while Posey gets paid $750 to wash trucks and doesn't even have to show up for that anymore? I'm not sure what Tressell considers "criminal" but Edward Rife certainly was one and is federal prison as proof and the fact that the FBI was more concerned about getting the big fish than prosecuting the 18-19 years olds that helped fund his drug operation with $50k in merch does not mean that it wasn't criminal. If a Columbus firefighter took the gear the city paid for and traded it to a pawn shop in exchange for $14k cash, a riding lawnmower, and and a bag of dope he would be ostracized, yet we give Posey a pass because it's part of the culture? No it isn't! Posey is the only player drafted who was suspended 8 games last year, folks! Clearly Tressel still doesn't get it, but considering he got fired for lying to the NCAA about having knowledge of the 5 players ties to the drug dealer when the FBI had proof he did, Jim Tressel is a confirmed liar and his comments about a players character are meaningless.
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Marco79


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Really Marco? Joe Paterno and others at Penn State vouched for Jerry Sandusky's character and how did that work out for his victims?

I stopped reading after this.

You are comparing Posey to a child molester. Rolling Eyes

Also Tressel could have bashed Posey, he could have went off on him and his teammates that cost him his job. It's not like a coach has called out a former player before...
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Marco79


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I see where jch is coming from; Prior to Posey being our guy, NONE of us had any kind of believe that Posey was better than any of the names mentioned.

And what makes us right?

Quote:
Highly doubt that anyone had him as a 5th-6th round player at best.

NFL teams have much different rankings on players than fans. Players that fans think are 2nd or 3rd round picks plummet and sometimes players that fans think are gonna be late round picks are picked early. Just because fans think that Posey is a 6th round pick doesn't mean NFL teams do. We had Posey ranked high and I highly doubt all other 31 teams had him as a 6th round pick.

Quote:
I kind of get that, but you have SOME idea, right? I mean, we all know that Michael Floyd is more or less better than the rest of the names mentioned, correct?


We are talking about middle round prospects not top 15 talent.
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amazingandre


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Complaining about picking Posey over Sanu or even my boy Jones at this point is stupid, regardless of first impressions, its not even training camp for crying out loud. Could he have a bad attitude? Yup, but so did Foster. Gary will deal with that and if Posey is legit it will work itself out, but to be crying still about this WEEKS after the pick is just dumb
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jargin


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Texans would rather run 60-40 and have two 1,000 yard rushers than they would throw 80-20 and have three 1,000 yard receivers. Were fine with who we have.
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Wolf6151


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marco79 wrote:
Quote:
He is no different than many 18 and19 year olds, Tressel said in an exclusive interview with SportsRadio 610. I think people have to remember that his mistakes were youthful mistakes and they were not any of criminal nature. They were in really judgment versus any criminality. I would let DeVier take my house for six weeks and not worry one bit. I have no concern about his character ongoing.

Tressel on Posey who knows him 1000000000000 times better than anyone of us.

And ET I am not disagreeing with you that he may be rusty, but JCH was saying that we should have taken any one of those WRs before Posey because their better. Absolutely no one can say that right now. Literally no one. They have not played a game yet we have no idea who is going to be better than who. In a year or two or three we will be able to tell, but 3 weeks into OTAs? Come on.


As for the first statement about Tressel talking up Posey, it's just a coach doing what every coach does for his guys. He's pimping that player because it helps the player and ultimately helps the coach as well. The higher a player goes in the draft looks better on a coach with future recruits. I don't think Tressel has the best interest of his players at heart, he's simply doing his job as a coach.

As for the second comment, JCH was right they were better more highly ranked players with better productivity and a lack of suspensions. Saying that everyone is equal because no games have been played just contradicts the whole scouting and talent evaluation process. Scouts evaluate talent for a reason. Saying that everyone is the same because no games have been played is the same as saying all WR are equal and we should just draw a name out of a hat. It's also the same as saying I'm just as good at WR as the players in the draft because I haven't taken a snap either. NFL teams have scouts who evaluate talent and rank players for a reason. Was Alex Brink just as a good of a QB as Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco on draft day prior to anyone playing a game. Scouts have a job and talent is evaluated and ranked for a reason. Sure their are players that get overlooked or become a star from nothing, but they are one in a million diamonds in the rough and you don't bet your franchises future on finding that diamond.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marco79 wrote:
Quote:
Really Marco? Joe Paterno and others at Penn State vouched for Jerry Sandusky's character and how did that work out for his victims?

I stopped reading after this.

You are comparing Posey to a child molester. Rolling Eyes

Also Tressel could have bashed Posey, he could have went off on him and his teammates that cost him his job. It's not like a coach has called out a former player before...


Figured someone would make that leap. Pointing out that using the character assessment of a college football coach who was fired for lying to the NCAA and covering up players violations is absurd as trusting Joe Paterno's opinion on Jerry Sandusky since he knew him "10000000 times better than us" is quite different from comparing the crimes of the people they were trying to protect. If I used Joe Paterno's quote about "I'm going to go home and beat up my wife" after a loss to Texas as an example of football culture being disrespectful to women while also bringing up Bret Favre, Warren Moon, and OJ Simpson, it doesn't mean I'm saying Joe Paterno sexted pics of his johnson, or would beat or kill his wife.

Since you brought it up, please point out some of these instances where a college coach has called out a former player when asked to speak about his character or pro potential. Seriously, just once I would love to see it - "Don't touch him. That kid was a nightmare to coach. He is a punk. He'll be dead or in jail by 24 or at the very least will get you fired."

Gary Kubiak comments on Jacoby Jones after the Ravens loss:

Quote:
"Youre not going to give up on a guy because he makes a mistake in a game. A lot of guys make mistakes in games and come back and make big plays for you. I try to look at the big picture on things. I know how far Jacoby has come as a person and a player. As a coach, youve got to believe in your people. Your players got to believe in each other. Youve got to overcome our mistakes and thats the great thing. We had our chances to overcome them. I know how much hed like to have that play back, and well give the chance to (put it behind him) when we go get going again.


Translation:
Quote:
"I give up. The occasional big play is not worth the mistakes this idiot makes. This player is the same clueless moron he was when he came into the league. As a coach, it's guys like this that get you fired. I should have listened to Matt Schaub after Jacoby cost us the Oakland game. Everyone knew we didn't have a prayer once he muffed the kick even if TJ did try some desperation lobs to our only receiver who is worth a damn even if he is gimpy as hell. There isn't a chance in hell will that guy ever step foot on the field for my team again. He can be someone else's problem next year because I know our fans will never let this one go."

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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Al Cowlings knew OJ 100000000 times better than anyone (high school, college, and pro teammate) - I guess him thinking OJ was a good enough guy to try and sneak him across the border after he sliced up his wife and a waiter should have ended all debate on OJ's character. Come on marco - I just said Devier Posey was a murderer and Tressel drove the Bronco didn't I?

You know what. Robert Kardashian publicly defended his "friend" OJ too (and some say ditched the murder weapon and clothes). If point out the irony that his daughter would become famous for taking it from behind from a guy named "RayJ" on tape and that she would end up dating a Heisman trophy winning Running Back from USC who brought shame to the trophy and his university does it mean that I think Reggie Bush was going to slit her throat? Hey, maybe that's why we drafted Mario. It's all coming together now...
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treece300e


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In regards to the talks of Ochocinco joining the team, and a direct attempt at trying to steer the conversation away from what we each THINK Posey may become, I would be opposed to Ochocinco coming here. He has dialed down the diva attitude it seems, but that's a bit easier in such a prestigous franchise with one of the best QBs and HCs in NFL history.

I think that 85 still has game in him and can succeed as a receiver as long as he has a capable QB. I think he could succeed in our system for that matter. However, I think it's rolling the dice on him as a player and attracting so much attention that it could be unfavorable. I think the Texans have been an underrated team for a while now and we have garnered a lot of attention going into the 2012 season. A move like this would be atypical and could bring undesired attention, and scrutiny to the team. While we have good leadership and synergy on the team, we are missing the strong VETERAN leadership that may be required to keep 85 down-to-Earth. I still stand by my thoughts that a WR will be brought in from St. Louis. Ocho, stay away from Houston, but feel free to make more guest appearances on The League. I'M INSIDE ME!!!
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The Gambler


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys might write this off as biased, but I figured I would put my 2 cents in anyway.

I'm an Ohio State fan. Over the past decade, I've seen a lot of Buckeye receivers get drafted much higher than I thought they should based on what I thought their NFL potential was. Ginn, Gonzo, Robiskie, and Jenkins were all early picks that I never thought had WR1 tools. I even saw Holmes as a marginal WR1.

Posey is the first Buckeye WR since David Boston (without hindsight) that I can honestly say has the potential to be a WR1. I don't know how he was a 3rd rounder if those previous Buckeyes went so early.

During his time at OSU, there were so many times that Devier would absolutely shake his defender and be wide open but Pryor either wouldn't see him or couldn't hit him. Great route runner. Smooth athlete. Plays much faster than his Combine time. I'd like to see him add about 5 to 10 pounds to bulk up his frame. Good hands, but I think his biggest weakness is he tries to run before he catches it from time to time and will drop the occasional ball.

Regarding the suspension/Tatgate stuff... Devier is a good kid. I don't think he is a leader though. I think he kind of went with the crowd. He had some bad judgement. I was very disappointed in him, but I know he's a good kid.

I hope you guys are patient with him. The year off has him behind the curve. I hope he plays like I know he can. Good luck.
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