Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

CW21's 1st Annual Packers Camp Battles Thread
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Green Bay Packers
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 7046
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KYPack wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
KYPack wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
KYPack wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
KYPack wrote:


Pretty good list, but it's upside down or inside out or something. Tyler might be our best back on even ground, but not on an NFL team. Tyler is short, slow, and will be happy as hell if he makes our PS. The starter? No way.

Starks starts. Green is in the mix with a lot of reps. Saine will probably be the third man. Tyler is a long shot to make PS and an even longer shot to make the 53.


It's not a depth chart. It's a list of their ability in blitz pickup.


How can you possibly rate Marc Tyler the best Packer RB in blitz pickup when he has never done it?

Both Tyler and Du'ane Bennett (Bennet is an RB, not a FB like I saw earlier in the thread) are real longshots to make our 53. They are both short UDFA's and turned in some of the best 40 times I've ever seen. For defensive ends. For RB's both of em are SLOW.

I hope one of 'em does turn out to be the Shields of the RB corp, but man they are real long shots.

Starks has improved on his PP, but he's admittedly had a long way to come. At least he does work on it.

From what I saw last season at the end I'd rate Starks head and shoulders above a green kid like Tyler. USC? So what, he hasn't blocked NFL players yet.


Starks hasn't blocked NFL players yet either. Mostly he doesn't realize he's standing in the wrong spot until they're already past him. Starks is a terrible blocker.

75% of blocking for a back is knowing where to stand and being willing to take a hit. Tyler showed both in college. He's got enough bulk to him to not give up too much ground as well. The only reason that Tyler would make the team is his pass blocking. That's pretty much his specialty right now.


Starks has big time issues in PP. But he is improving. He has learned a lot about positioning and is trying to execute his assignments. He just had a long way to go. He is never gonna be a Lorenzo Neal type, but he can improve himself to the point that he doesn't hurt the team in blitz pick-up.

Tyler can make the team as a RB based on his blocking prowess? Bzzzt. No way. If Tyler isn't a better RB than the guys ahead of him, he will be lucky to make the team on the PS. Maybe the guy is the sleeper of the year. Hope so. I don't doubt TT and his herd of Uber scouts.


Based on his last game, Starks is just as bad in pro as he was at the beginning of the year. I'm not sure where your belief that he's improving is coming from.


Starks improved at his blitz pick-up throughtout the year. He made a great pick-up in the play-off game against the Giants, for instance. Unfortunately, the Giants ran a trail blitz and the second man nailed Rodgers. Starks main problem against the Giants was his two pass drops. He left key yardage on the field by his screw-ups in that one.

As the year went on, he improved both his reads and blocking technique. To say he never picked up a blitzer all season is absurd. Was he assignment sure in PP last year? No.

Did he improve and was he trying?, hell yes.

A big part of Starks problem is the same for most RB's. Their time in the NFL is the first time they were really required to be effective pick-up men. It's a new thing for him and it shows. As the poster stated BJack was terrible in pick-up and improved to the point where he was effective at it. Starks can make the same progress if he really works at it. He has made some progress, let's see if the third year is the charm for the boy.
I hope he gets it done.


Starks was BAD last year. He gave up at least one sack in that Giants game and I'm edging more towards two, but I'd have to go back and rewatch.

Who has made a jump like Jackson in blitz pick-up? Maybe Ahmad Bradshaw. It is very rare for a guy to be bad for two years and then all of a sudden be dependable. Blitz pick-up requires a mentality that most Running Backs don't have. I'm not saying that's Starks' issue, I've never met the guy. But at this point, Starks appears to be the worst blocker on the roster at RB.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PackFan4Life


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 4206
Location: De Pere, WI
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:
KYPack wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
KYPack wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
KYPack wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
KYPack wrote:


Pretty good list, but it's upside down or inside out or something. Tyler might be our best back on even ground, but not on an NFL team. Tyler is short, slow, and will be happy as hell if he makes our PS. The starter? No way.

Starks starts. Green is in the mix with a lot of reps. Saine will probably be the third man. Tyler is a long shot to make PS and an even longer shot to make the 53.


It's not a depth chart. It's a list of their ability in blitz pickup.


How can you possibly rate Marc Tyler the best Packer RB in blitz pickup when he has never done it?

Both Tyler and Du'ane Bennett (Bennet is an RB, not a FB like I saw earlier in the thread) are real longshots to make our 53. They are both short UDFA's and turned in some of the best 40 times I've ever seen. For defensive ends. For RB's both of em are SLOW.

I hope one of 'em does turn out to be the Shields of the RB corp, but man they are real long shots.

Starks has improved on his PP, but he's admittedly had a long way to come. At least he does work on it.

From what I saw last season at the end I'd rate Starks head and shoulders above a green kid like Tyler. USC? So what, he hasn't blocked NFL players yet.


Starks hasn't blocked NFL players yet either. Mostly he doesn't realize he's standing in the wrong spot until they're already past him. Starks is a terrible blocker.

75% of blocking for a back is knowing where to stand and being willing to take a hit. Tyler showed both in college. He's got enough bulk to him to not give up too much ground as well. The only reason that Tyler would make the team is his pass blocking. That's pretty much his specialty right now.


Starks has big time issues in PP. But he is improving. He has learned a lot about positioning and is trying to execute his assignments. He just had a long way to go. He is never gonna be a Lorenzo Neal type, but he can improve himself to the point that he doesn't hurt the team in blitz pick-up.

Tyler can make the team as a RB based on his blocking prowess? Bzzzt. No way. If Tyler isn't a better RB than the guys ahead of him, he will be lucky to make the team on the PS. Maybe the guy is the sleeper of the year. Hope so. I don't doubt TT and his herd of Uber scouts.


Based on his last game, Starks is just as bad in pro as he was at the beginning of the year. I'm not sure where your belief that he's improving is coming from.


Starks improved at his blitz pick-up throughtout the year. He made a great pick-up in the play-off game against the Giants, for instance. Unfortunately, the Giants ran a trail blitz and the second man nailed Rodgers. Starks main problem against the Giants was his two pass drops. He left key yardage on the field by his screw-ups in that one.

As the year went on, he improved both his reads and blocking technique. To say he never picked up a blitzer all season is absurd. Was he assignment sure in PP last year? No.

Did he improve and was he trying?, hell yes.

A big part of Starks problem is the same for most RB's. Their time in the NFL is the first time they were really required to be effective pick-up men. It's a new thing for him and it shows. As the poster stated BJack was terrible in pick-up and improved to the point where he was effective at it. Starks can make the same progress if he really works at it. He has made some progress, let's see if the third year is the charm for the boy.
I hope he gets it done.


Starks was BAD last year. He gave up at least one sack in that Giants game and I'm edging more towards two, but I'd have to go back and rewatch.

Who has made a jump like Jackson in blitz pick-up? Maybe Ahmad Bradshaw. It is very rare for a guy to be bad for two years and then all of a sudden be dependable. Blitz pick-up requires a mentality that most Running Backs don't have. I'm not saying that's Starks' issue, I've never met the guy. But at this point, Starks appears to be the worst blocker on the roster at RB.


Sometimes it comes with maturity and a realization of what your true role on a team is. Jackson got a clue after a couple years that he was not ever going to be a 20-30 carry RB in Green Bay, the Champs simply do not play O that way. Jackson understood he needed to be the guy to help protect in the passing game and take what balls could go his way outside of that. I am not sure Starks has come to that full realization yet.

Jackson also worked much harder at it in camps later as well. I did not see any of these RBs asking for more time after TC practices last year to work on these PP concepts. Jackson was always one of the last guys off the field in practices in TC the last couple years of his tenure in Titletown. It will be interesting to see if any of these guys is willing to put in that degree of work.

Was Starks terrible at it last year? I cannot go there with you at all. He was adequate. Truth is we were spoiled with Jackson and how good he was in this area the last two years he was here. If Starks wants to see more snaps and keep the other bucks on the bench more, he is going to want to be more than adequate moving forward. My guess is some of these RBs in the stable are probably more onto the Jackson realization that Starks has been and are going to put the work into passing him in this area. But those are just words coming out of these guys right now, more interested in seeing the work that Jackson put into it come TC than I am hearing about how they are going to improve in the offseason.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 13924
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with a good part of that. There are no weak spots in Starks game other than the fact he can't stay on the field. That's not to say there are any real strong points in his game. Just the most well rounded of this group. USC is the only one with his pure running skills though and USC has a style that needs more reps than he'll see in Mac's fit.

Long story short. If healthy, I look to see a ton of Starks this season.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kampman74


Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 7567
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So is this thread for all position battles or just the Rbs? I just want to know who everyone has as their OLB depth and ILB depth.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spilltray


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 10691
Location: Green Bay, WI
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kampman74 wrote:
So is this thread for all position battles or just the Rbs? I just want to know who everyone has as their OLB depth and ILB depth.


OLB Matthews, S'oto
ILB Bishop, Smith, Manning
ILB Hawk, Lattimore
OLB Perry, Jones

I don't really think anyone else even has a shot to make the roster.
_________________
Wilfred wrote:
Memory is like the Packers when they are behind by two touchdowns in the 4th quarter... It comes back.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
incognito_man


Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 32274
Location: Madison
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spilltray wrote:
Kampman74 wrote:
So is this thread for all position battles or just the Rbs? I just want to know who everyone has as their OLB depth and ILB depth.


OLB Matthews, S'oto
ILB Bishop, Smith, Manning
ILB Hawk, Lattimore
OLB Perry, Jones

I don't really think anyone else even has a shot to make the roster.


wait...you don't think that Walden, Francois or Zombo have a SHOT to make the roster? Shocked

Not to mention Moses either.

LB is going to be one of the closest battle throughout camp. So'oto, Manning, Lattimore and Jones are nothing close to locks over anyone else.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blount_truth


Joined: 29 Oct 2010
Posts: 411
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea I'm thinking 9-10 LB's again. With as much as lattimore and Jones played ST last year I think they're good bets to make it ahead of zombo just because of availability. Sooto and dezmon are close to the same thing depending how sooto came along over the offseason.. I'm thinking

OLB-matthews/walden
ILB- hawk/jones/lattimore
MLB-bishop/manning/smith
OLB-perry/sooto/

Moses perhaps to the ps. I think Walden Moses and sooto are fighting for 2 spots
Lattimore and Jones are both vying for that hybrid role but it doesn't mean we don't keep both...

French is decent but if manning provides stiff competition I see them going with the younger guy.

But this defense has a lot of competition at every level so we might see a roster shakedown in the depths. I don't think you can say that any of these guys have NO shot of making the roster.. it's close in there.
_________________
Adopt-a-Packer: Casey Hayward
Tackles: 46
Passes defended: 19
Interceptions: 6
Forced Fumbles: 1
DROY candidate. Jersey acquired.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blount_truth


Joined: 29 Oct 2010
Posts: 411
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's reportedly been reported that the packers have shown at least minor interest in cedric Benson RB previously of the bengals (sirius radio)

If one of our guys goes down in TC do you, the forum, think it'd be a wise move or would you rather just get grant back?
_________________
Adopt-a-Packer: Casey Hayward
Tackles: 46
Passes defended: 19
Interceptions: 6
Forced Fumbles: 1
DROY candidate. Jersey acquired.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CentralFC


Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Posts: 5001
Location: Evanston, IL
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blount_truth wrote:
It's reportedly been reported that the packers have shown at least minor interest in cedric Benson RB previously of the bengals (sirius radio)

If one of our guys goes down in TC do you, the forum, think it'd be a wise move or would you rather just get grant back?


It won't happen in this world.

But I'd love it if it did; Benson has some legs left would be an upgrade to Starks. Veterans minimum and I'd be fine.
_________________
Bolstrikes wrote:
Ben makes his receivers a lot better then Rodgers does. I think Rodgers gets way more to work with and don't feel he's better then Ben. Rodgers gets better surrounding talent and a better system.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MNPackfan32


Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 8252
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blount_truth wrote:
It's reportedly been reported that the packers have shown at least minor interest in cedric Benson RB previously of the bengals (sirius radio)

If one of our guys goes down in TC do you, the forum, think it'd be a wise move or would you rather just get grant back?
For us, right now, Ryan Grant>>>Cedric Benson. Grant knows the playbook, has had good seasons as a Zone Back and is quality guy in the locker room.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 13924
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNPackfan32 wrote:
Blount_truth wrote:
It's reportedly been reported that the packers have shown at least minor interest in cedric Benson RB previously of the bengals (sirius radio)

If one of our guys goes down in TC do you, the forum, think it'd be a wise move or would you rather just get grant back?
For us, right now, Ryan Grant>>>Cedric Benson. Grant knows the playbook, has had good seasons as a Zone Back and is quality guy in the locker room.


Agreed. Grant is a better fit in Green Bay in just about every possible way IMO. I would much rather give a guy like Tyler a long look if that's the mold you want out there. I'm just not one that feels that style will add up to much in Mac's fit. Still holds value in specific roles but not enough reps to really excel.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spilltray


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 10691
Location: Green Bay, WI
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
Blount_truth wrote:
It's reportedly been reported that the packers have shown at least minor interest in cedric Benson RB previously of the bengals (sirius radio)

If one of our guys goes down in TC do you, the forum, think it'd be a wise move or would you rather just get grant back?
For us, right now, Ryan Grant>>>Cedric Benson. Grant knows the playbook, has had good seasons as a Zone Back and is quality guy in the locker room.


Agreed. Grant is a better fit in Green Bay in just about every possible way IMO. I would much rather give a guy like Tyler a long look if that's the mold you want out there. I'm just not one that feels that style will add up to much in Mac's fit. Still holds value in specific roles but not enough reps to really excel.


Alot of it depends on the price though. If they would both be taking the same deal then yeah I agree Grant every day, but the money tells the tale.
_________________
Wilfred wrote:
Memory is like the Packers when they are behind by two touchdowns in the 4th quarter... It comes back.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Blount_truth


Joined: 29 Oct 2010
Posts: 411
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spilltray wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
Blount_truth wrote:
It's reportedly been reported that the packers have shown at least minor interest in cedric Benson RB previously of the bengals (sirius radio)

If one of our guys goes down in TC do you, the forum, think it'd be a wise move or would you rather just get grant back?
For us, right now, Ryan Grant>>>Cedric Benson. Grant knows the playbook, has had good seasons as a Zone Back and is quality guy in the locker room.


Agreed. Grant is a better fit in Green Bay in just about every possible way IMO. I would much rather give a guy like Tyler a long look if that's the mold you want out there. I'm just not one that feels that style will add up to much in Mac's fit. Still holds value in specific roles but not enough reps to really excel.


Alot of it depends on the price though. If they would both be taking the same deal then yeah I agree Grant every day, but the money tells the tale.


Apparently Benson has stated that he won't play for vet min.(nfl.com) I agree that grant has better value to the pack, and teddyT was putting in the hours looking for an insurance policy in case a young guy goes down and grant signs elsewhere..
_________________
Adopt-a-Packer: Casey Hayward
Tackles: 46
Passes defended: 19
Interceptions: 6
Forced Fumbles: 1
DROY candidate. Jersey acquired.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spilltray


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 10691
Location: Green Bay, WI
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blount_truth wrote:
spilltray wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
Blount_truth wrote:
It's reportedly been reported that the packers have shown at least minor interest in cedric Benson RB previously of the bengals (sirius radio)

If one of our guys goes down in TC do you, the forum, think it'd be a wise move or would you rather just get grant back?
For us, right now, Ryan Grant>>>Cedric Benson. Grant knows the playbook, has had good seasons as a Zone Back and is quality guy in the locker room.


Agreed. Grant is a better fit in Green Bay in just about every possible way IMO. I would much rather give a guy like Tyler a long look if that's the mold you want out there. I'm just not one that feels that style will add up to much in Mac's fit. Still holds value in specific roles but not enough reps to really excel.


Alot of it depends on the price though. If they would both be taking the same deal then yeah I agree Grant every day, but the money tells the tale.


Apparently Benson has stated that he won't play for vet min.(nfl.com) I agree that grant has better value to the pack, and teddyT was putting in the hours looking for an insurance policy in case a young guy goes down and grant signs elsewhere..


Just because Benson isn't willing to take the minimum doesn't mean he might not be willing to take less than Grant would. It's impossible to know unless both sign somewhere but the money differences feed in to which would be a better value.

Personally I'm not worried about RB at all. If someone goes down, sign a young FA. No need to pay significant money for anyone.
_________________
Wilfred wrote:
Memory is like the Packers when they are behind by two touchdowns in the 4th quarter... It comes back.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Blount_truth


Joined: 29 Oct 2010
Posts: 411
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spilltray wrote:
Blount_truth wrote:
spilltray wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
Blount_truth wrote:
It's reportedly been reported that the packers have shown at least minor interest in cedric Benson RB previously of the bengals (sirius radio)

If one of our guys goes down in TC do you, the forum, think it'd be a wise move or would you rather just get grant back?
For us, right now, Ryan Grant>>>Cedric Benson. Grant knows the playbook, has had good seasons as a Zone Back and is quality guy in the locker room.


Agreed. Grant is a better fit in Green Bay in just about every possible way IMO. I would much rather give a guy like Tyler a long look if that's the mold you want out there. I'm just not one that feels that style will add up to much in Mac's fit. Still holds value in specific roles but not enough reps to really excel.


Alot of it depends on the price though. If they would both be taking the same deal then yeah I agree Grant every day, but the money tells the tale.


Apparently Benson has stated that he won't play for vet min.(nfl.com) I agree that grant has better value to the pack, and teddyT was putting in the hours looking for an insurance policy in case a young guy goes down and grant signs elsewhere..


Just because Benson isn't willing to take the minimum doesn't mean he might not be willing to take less than Grant would. It's impossible to know unless both sign somewhere but the money differences feed in to which would be a better value.

Personally I'm not worried about RB at all. If someone goes down, sign a young FA. No need to pay significant money for anyone.


I'm just saying he wouldn't come with a 30 year old discount.

Yeaaaa, well I wouldn't sign just anybody but sure I get that running back isn't a big deal but the position needs to be squared away with a guy who can play and take care of the ball to keep the offense on track. A compliment to our passing attack would be neat. I don't think 4.3 yards a carry is too little to ask with the way teams treat our pass game. Why rely 100% on Aaron and the receivers if you don't have to? Telling me you can stick anyone back there and being okay with it is just ignorant and I'm not sure you understand offense vs defense scheming.
_________________
Adopt-a-Packer: Casey Hayward
Tackles: 46
Passes defended: 19
Interceptions: 6
Forced Fumbles: 1
DROY candidate. Jersey acquired.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Green Bay Packers All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 5 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group