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Stone85
Joined: 30 Jun 2010
Posts: 2053
Location: Florida
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 Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:08 am Post subject: |
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Philip Rivers is absolutely a top 6 quarterback and Ryan Mathews is absolutely a top 12 running back.
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khodder
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 48529
Location: New New York
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:28 am Post subject: |
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| Stone85 wrote: | What?
Richard Sherman is better than Patrick Peterson? Who the hell is Richard Sherman? And better than Aqib Talib? And Quentin Jammer? And Dunta Robinson? Who the hell is Richard Sherman?
Cason is better than Greer, Mathis, Webster, Jammer, and Dunta Robinson? On what planet? The only player even close to as bad as Cason on this whole list is Ike Taylor |
Not to be too blunt here, but if you do not know who Richard Sherman is you really should not be questioning his positioning on the list;
Richard Sherman is a kid from Stanford, rookie in 2011, started 10 games for Seattle. Is big (6-3/6-4), and has mid 4.3 speed and plays very fast;
He posted some of the best all-round CB metrics in the NFL last season in terms of success rate, YPA allowed and YAC allowed.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2012/best-cornerback-charting-stats-2011
As a Cardinals fan I would not take Sherman over Peterson now because of the upside, but I would not hesitate to say that Sherman had the better rookie year as a corner.
Now I will be the first to point out that CB metrics are among the most volatile statistics around in the NFL so it is entirely possible that Sherman falls flat in his second season.
Jammer is coming off a terrible season too. Talib has legal questions surrounding him and that causes him to fall for some people. Dunta Robinson is not that good as a corner. He will be playing the nickel in ATL this season. Rashean Mathis has really struggled the past couple of years.
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RandyMossIsBoss
Joined: 01 Jun 2012
Posts: 8658
Location: Peppers90 on the sig, Kiltman on the avy
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:39 am Post subject: |
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| khodder wrote: | | Stone85 wrote: | What?
Richard Sherman is better than Patrick Peterson? Who the hell is Richard Sherman? And better than Aqib Talib? And Quentin Jammer? And Dunta Robinson? Who the hell is Richard Sherman?
Cason is better than Greer, Mathis, Webster, Jammer, and Dunta Robinson? On what planet? The only player even close to as bad as Cason on this whole list is Ike Taylor |
Not to be too blunt here, but if you do not know who Richard Sherman is you really should not be questioning his positioning on the list;
Richard Sherman is a kid from Stanford, rookie in 2011, started 10 games for Seattle. Is big (6-3/6-4), and has mid 4.3 speed and plays very fast;
He posted some of the best all-round CB metrics in the NFL last season in terms of success rate, YPA allowed and YAC allowed.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2012/best-cornerback-charting-stats-2011
As a Cardinals fan I would not take Sherman over Peterson now because of the upside, but I would not hesitate to say that Sherman had the better rookie year as a corner.
Now I will be the first to point out that CB metrics are among the most volatile statistics around in the NFL so it is entirely possible that Sherman falls flat in his second season.
Jammer is coming off a terrible season too. Talib has legal questions surrounding him and that causes him to fall for some people. Dunta Robinson is not that good as a corner. He will be playing the nickel in ATL this season. Rashean Mathis has really struggled the past couple of years. |
Yea I completely agree, Richard Sherman is really underrated, but Sherman does not possess 4.3 speed... He ran somewhere around a 4.55 I believe and plays with about 4.5 looking speed, his key is how easily he seems to be able to change direction despite his big frame, also has great hip fluidity for a 6'3 guy. Those guys are just popular big name corners, they've fallen off in recent years. |
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Steelers546
Joined: 19 Dec 2010
Posts: 1601
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:53 am Post subject: |
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How the heck is Dez Bryant ranked over Mike Wallace on some of these lists? Maybe he'll be the better WR in the future, but I really want to hear an argument for how he's better right now.
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ttitansfan4life
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 18652
Location: Delaware
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| Stone85 wrote: | | Philip Rivers is absolutely a top 6 quarterback and Ryan Mathews is absolutely a top 12 running back. |
False.
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RAVINGMADD
Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 2503
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:44 am Post subject: Re: Your Top 32 at a position currently |
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| BlaqOptic wrote: | | RAVINGMADD wrote: | | FourThreeMafia wrote: |
However, as of RIGHT now, Id put Eli over Ben...even as a Steeler fan. They are neck and neck right now, and Eli had the better season and won a SB, so he gets the nod from me.
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What?  I guess you are consistent, but as much as you think I hate Big Ben, I can't agree with you here. I feel like Eli has had a little more to work with recently, which explains his recent success and stats. I guess I'm a bit cautious of rating him higher because he's shown to be fairly inconsistent. |
More to work with?! In what way? I can't think of a single non-homer Steelers fan that would take Ben over Eli currently. They're about even but Eli is clearly trending up. |
I don't see how he doesn't have more to work with. Eli has a better offensive line and better receivers who produce a lot of YAC.
And last year was the only year Eli was even statistically better than Ben, but that had a lot to do with the fact that the Giants couldn't run the ball so they had to do it through the air. We saw a bunch of QB's balloon their passing numbers after the shortened offseason, so I'm more inclined to think that this season will be an outlier in his stats and not the norm. He most likely goes back to numbers similar to the years before which weren't better than Ben's. Not to mention that last year Ben played tougher defenses than Eli and all of Ben's losses and bad games were against tough defenses.
I understand what you are saying about Eli trending up, but I'm still not ready to take last year at face value and the eye test still tells me Ben is better. I think both have trouble with decision making sometimes and they can be forced into mistakes just like any other QB, but Ben's stronger arm and his ability to break tackles and make plays with his legs puts him above Eli. |
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FourThreeMafia
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 40599
Location: East of Sixburgh
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| Stone85 wrote: | | Philip Rivers is absolutely a top 6 quarterback and Ryan Mathews is absolutely a top 12 running back. |
Rivers is 6-8. He isnt clearly ahead of anyone in the top 8.
Matthews is top 15....MAYBE top 12. Good player, but Chargers fans act like he has shown more than he actually has.
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| cluelessororke wrote: | | I am going to laugh in your face when they don't even sniff WR until day three of the draft |
Still waiting for your laugh.... |
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FourThreeMafia
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 40599
Location: East of Sixburgh
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| Steelers546 wrote: | | How the heck is Dez Bryant ranked over Mike Wallace on some of these lists? Maybe he'll be the better WR in the future, but I really want to hear an argument for how he's better right now. |
Some people value potential higher than actual proven talent.
Some just assume certain players are going to be great, even though it doesnt always work out that way.
Anyone who looks at it OBJECTIVELY and who is better RIGHT NOW wouldnt even considering ranking Bryant over Wallace.
I like Bryant's potential alot, but there is no logic that can be made that he is currently better than Wallace. Bryant has better hands and Wallace is much more of a gamebreaker. Both have issues with route running. Wallace, however, has been more consistent and has proven himself more to this point.
In 2 years, Bryant could be up with Megatron and Fitz, but as of right now, I cant see how anyone ranks him in the top 10 or even 15.
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| cluelessororke wrote: | | I am going to laugh in your face when they don't even sniff WR until day three of the draft |
Still waiting for your laugh.... |
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JammerHammer21
Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 18240
Location: Anywhere
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| FourThreeMafia wrote: | | Stone85 wrote: | | Philip Rivers is absolutely a top 6 quarterback and Ryan Mathews is absolutely a top 12 running back. |
Rivers is 6-8. He isnt clearly ahead of anyone in the top 8.
Matthews is top 15....MAYBE top 12. Good player, but Chargers fans act like he has shown more than he actually has. |
I don't know, Mathews last year really took a step forward. Caught a lot of passes, something people didn't think he could do. But I think he's getting disrespected on some of these lists (namely the where he was like 24 below guys like Cedirc freaking Benson). 
I also don't think one season (which honestly was not that bad. Not Rivers level, but still better than a ton of QBs) should have knocked Rivers from the top 6 at the most, but I digress. |
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JammerHammer21
Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 18240
Location: Anywhere
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Stone85 wrote: | | Its A Sabotage wrote: | 1. Darrelle Revis, New York Jets
2. Nnamdi Asomugha, Philadelphia Eagles
3. Champ Bailey, Denver Broncos
4. Joe Haden, Cleveland Browns
5. Johnathan Joseph, Houston Texans
6. Brandon Flowers, Kansas City Chiefs
7. Charles Woodson, Green Bay Packers
8. Ladarius Webb, Baltimore Ravens
9. Cortland Finnegan, St. Louis Rams
10. Derek Cox, Jacksonville Jaguars
11. Brandon Carr, Dallas Cowboys
12. Brent Grimes, Atlanta Falcons
13. Vontae Davis, Miami Dolphins
14. Tramon Williams, CB Green Bay Packers
15. Leon Hall, Cincinnati Bengals
16. Chris Gamble, Carolina Panthers
17. Charles Tillman, Chicago Bears
18. Asante Samuel, Atlanta Falcons
19. Carlos Rogers, San Francisco 49ers
21. Richard Sherman, Seattle Seahawks
22. Antonio Cromartie, New York Jets
23. Patrick Peterson, Arizona Cardinals
24. Aqib Talib, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
25. Antoine Cason, San Diego Chargers
26. Jabari Greer, New Orleans Saints
27. Rashean Mathis, Jacksonville Jaguars
28. Corey Webster, New York Giants
29. Quinton Jammer, San Diego Chargers
30. Ike Taylor, Pittsburgh Steelers
31. Jason McCourty, Tennessee Titans
32. Dunta Robinson, Atlanta Falcons
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What?
Richard Sherman is better than Patrick Peterson? Who the hell is Richard Sherman? And better than Aqib Talib? And Quentin Jammer? And Dunta Robinson? Who the hell is Richard Sherman?
Cason is better than Greer, Mathis, Webster, Jammer, and Dunta Robinson? On what planet? The only player even close to as bad as Cason on this whole list is Ike Taylor |
Richard Sherman had a great season. Ike Taylor is far better than Cason. |
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pierrepet
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 5799
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| John232 wrote: | | Crabtree should be in the top 32. He was playing like a pro-bowler for the last 10(iirc) games of the season last year and is not a bust. Not prolific yet, but certainly not busting. |
But I thought Alex Smith's excuse for poor stats is that "he did not have any good WR's?" |
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texans_uk
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
Posts: 25444
Location: Kempes on the sig
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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Dunta Robinson is a terrible CB.
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| DallasInHeart wrote: | | Buddy if you lived in Europe or ever gone to visit Europe you would know that over there Football is totally on a different level |
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FalconFan13
Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 8601
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| texans_uk wrote: | | Dunta Robinson is a terrible CB. |
not really he did ok with us last year not amazing but solid.
He will do for sure better this year in the nickle. i think houston should have kept him a nickleback like he was his rookie year it plays to his strengths better.
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RedGreenShow
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
Posts: 796
Location: Nati
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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I don't mean to sound ignorant, but whats the big difference between Mike Wallace and Torrey Smith?
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GaTechRavens
Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 15694
Location: Knoxville, TN
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| RedGreenShow wrote: | | I don't mean to sound ignorant, but whats the big difference between Mike Wallace and Torrey Smith? |
Wallace is more refined right now. Torrey is developing in all around game and showed more than enough flashes of it for a rookie, but he just needs to keep working on it.
Still, I'll keep emphasizing that Torrey torched guys deep (not just Justin King - he even burned Darrelle Revis more than once) more frequently than I've ever seen from another receiver - he really made our jaws drop, and that doesn't happen often with rookies. If he and Flacco can develop a chemistry where the ball isn't overthrown by a yard every time...
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| ArrowheadRage58 wrote: | | I'd much rather be in our position now than the Ravens, that's for sure. |
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