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finsyanksmancs
Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 3701
Location: Raleighwood
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 Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| Tetsuya_Ryuji wrote: |
Well, we better anyway.. after he let me down when I jumped into a fire for him last year. |
This is why I hate Chad Henne so much. 
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SUG
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 6452
Location: Alameda, Ca
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| Jaytotha wrote: | | From what I heard we are running a 2 FS defense. Jimmy Wilson is going to be a good FS |
Would I like another Vontae Davis opposite himself ... of course, but I like the personnel we have now.
Would I like a ball hawking FS ... of course since you can't hit anybody in the NFL anymore.
But it seems to me Wilson, Carroll, Culver & R. Jones all offer positional flexibility between FS & SS & some CB.
Given the size of NFL WRs nowadays ...
I'm happy in that our CBs are better suited in Man/press coverage & not a "vanilla zone" coverage giving
up a bunch of cushion.
The last thing we need are exclusive 5' - 9" - 4/4 speed straight up one dimensional Nickle/Zone guys like Will Allen.
I'm a firm believer that Pass rush makes a secondary better & not the other way around.
That's why I like the man to man press coverage on the outside.
If we were to identify someone who could play CB better than Smith then so be it but...
There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever, I'd line S. Smith up in front of Gronkowski/Hernandez &
leave him there all day on Sun.
His size & physical skill set is tailor made for that match up beyond anyone on the Mia roster.
He may not generate a ton of INTs or be the greatest tackler but the dude is physical going up &
getting a hand on the ball. And that precedes making the catch.
sug
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 # 52 |
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green4gulf
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1896
Location: TN, by way of Palm Beach FL
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| SUG wrote: | | Jaytotha wrote: | | From what I heard we are running a 2 FS defense. Jimmy Wilson is going to be a good FS |
Would I like another Vontae Davis opposite himself ... of course, but I like the personnel we have now.
Would I like a ball hawking FS ... of course since you can't hit anybody in the NFL anymore.
But it seems to me Wilson, Carroll, Culver & R. Jones all offer positional flexibility between FS & SS & some CB.
Given the size of NFL WRs nowadays ...
I'm happy in that our CBs are better suited in Man/press coverage & not a "vanilla zone" coverage giving
up a bunch of cushion.
The last thing we need are exclusive 5' - 9" - 4/4 speed straight up one dimensional Nickle/Zone guys like Will Allen.
I'm a firm believer that Pass rush makes a secondary better & not the other way around.
That's why I like the man to man press coverage on the outside.
If we were to identify someone who could play CB better than Smith then so be it but...
There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever, I'd line S. Smith up in front of Gronkowski/Hernandez &
leave him there all day on Sun.
His size & physical skill set is tailor made for that match up beyond anyone on the Mia roster.
He may not generate a ton of INTs or be the greatest tackler but the dude is physical going up &
getting a hand on the ball. And that precedes making the catch.
sug |
If I only had a nickle for everytime someone on this forum mentioned how the pass rush makes the secondary better LoL. While it is a very true statement, it is also true that the secondary makes the pass rush better. You mention how you prefer press coverage, and that's a perfect example of the Secondary making the pass rush better......one reason you play press coverage is to make those 3 step drops less effective by disrupting the timing and route.....there's not much an outside pass rusher can do to a 3 step drop / timing pattern unless the DB's can disrupt the route and force the QB to either throw it away or hang on to the ball longer.
To clarify; I'm not saying you're inaccurate ( because you aren't )....but I'd just like to point out how Pass Rush and Pass Coverage go hand in hand....if you can only have one or the other then my opinion is go with the better talent. |
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SUG
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 6452
Location: Alameda, Ca
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| green4gulf wrote: | | SUG wrote: | | Jaytotha wrote: | | From what I heard we are running a 2 FS defense. Jimmy Wilson is going to be a good FS |
Would I like another Vontae Davis opposite himself ... of course, but I like the personnel we have now.
Would I like a ball hawking FS ... of course since you can't hit anybody in the NFL anymore.
But it seems to me Wilson, Carroll, Culver & R. Jones all offer positional flexibility between FS & SS & some CB.
Given the size of NFL WRs nowadays ...
I'm happy in that our CBs are better suited in Man/press coverage & not a "vanilla zone" coverage giving
up a bunch of cushion.
The last thing we need are exclusive 5' - 9" - 4/4 speed straight up one dimensional Nickle/Zone guys like Will Allen.
I'm a firm believer that Pass rush makes a secondary better & not the other way around.
That's why I like the man to man press coverage on the outside.
If we were to identify someone who could play CB better than Smith then so be it but...
There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever, I'd line S. Smith up in front of Gronkowski/Hernandez &
leave him there all day on Sun.
His size & physical skill set is tailor made for that match up beyond anyone on the Mia roster.
He may not generate a ton of INTs or be the greatest tackler but the dude is physical going up &
getting a hand on the ball. And that precedes making the catch.
sug |
If I only had a nickle for everytime someone on this forum mentioned how the pass rush makes the secondary better LoL. While it is a very true statement, it is also true that the secondary makes the pass rush better. You mention how you prefer press coverage, and that's a perfect example of the Secondary making the pass rush better......one reason you play press coverage is to make those 3 step drops less effective by disrupting the timing and route.....there's not much an outside pass rusher can do to a 3 step drop / timing pattern unless the DB's can disrupt the route and force the QB to either throw it away or hang on to the ball longer.
To clarify; I'm not saying you're inaccurate ( because you aren't )....but I'd just like to point out how Pass Rush and Pass Coverage go hand in hand....if you can only have one or the other then my opinion is go with the better talent. |
Like I said, I'm fine if we were to acquire someone that can out play Smith at CB.
And if that person were on the roster we would have seen it by now.
But I was screaming right here 3 drafts ago that we could/should easily draft 2 OLB rnds 1 & 2.
We had JPeasy & that was it.
Now we have CWake & that's it.
Point is, I don't believe we've given the existing secondary personnel all the support they need.
I don't believe we've tapped into what this grp is fully capable of & that in itself scares me.
I admit that Smith has his limitations, actually several of us already have but ...
It's assanine to say that the kid is crap & has no value when in fact is quite contrary.
He put on a clinic when Dustin Keller was torching us all over the field.
I view him as a Hybrid cover guy at the most oportune time given the trends in the NFL.
sug
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# 52 |
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green4gulf
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1896
Location: TN, by way of Palm Beach FL
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| SUG wrote: | | green4gulf wrote: | | SUG wrote: | | Jaytotha wrote: | | From what I heard we are running a 2 FS defense. Jimmy Wilson is going to be a good FS |
Would I like another Vontae Davis opposite himself ... of course, but I like the personnel we have now.
Would I like a ball hawking FS ... of course since you can't hit anybody in the NFL anymore.
But it seems to me Wilson, Carroll, Culver & R. Jones all offer positional flexibility between FS & SS & some CB.
Given the size of NFL WRs nowadays ...
I'm happy in that our CBs are better suited in Man/press coverage & not a "vanilla zone" coverage giving
up a bunch of cushion.
The last thing we need are exclusive 5' - 9" - 4/4 speed straight up one dimensional Nickle/Zone guys like Will Allen.
I'm a firm believer that Pass rush makes a secondary better & not the other way around.
That's why I like the man to man press coverage on the outside.
If we were to identify someone who could play CB better than Smith then so be it but...
There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever, I'd line S. Smith up in front of Gronkowski/Hernandez &
leave him there all day on Sun.
His size & physical skill set is tailor made for that match up beyond anyone on the Mia roster.
He may not generate a ton of INTs or be the greatest tackler but the dude is physical going up &
getting a hand on the ball. And that precedes making the catch.
sug |
If I only had a nickle for everytime someone on this forum mentioned how the pass rush makes the secondary better LoL. While it is a very true statement, it is also true that the secondary makes the pass rush better. You mention how you prefer press coverage, and that's a perfect example of the Secondary making the pass rush better......one reason you play press coverage is to make those 3 step drops less effective by disrupting the timing and route.....there's not much an outside pass rusher can do to a 3 step drop / timing pattern unless the DB's can disrupt the route and force the QB to either throw it away or hang on to the ball longer.
To clarify; I'm not saying you're inaccurate ( because you aren't )....but I'd just like to point out how Pass Rush and Pass Coverage go hand in hand....if you can only have one or the other then my opinion is go with the better talent. |
Like I said, I'm fine if we were to acquire someone that can out play Smith at CB.
And if that person were on the roster we would have seen it by now.
But I was screaming right here 3 drafts ago that we could/should easily draft 2 OLB rnds 1 & 2.
We had JPeasy & that was it.
Now we have CWake & that's it.
Point is, I don't believe we've given the existing secondary personnel all the support they need.
I don't believe we've tapped into what this grp is fully capable of & that in itself scares me.
I admit that Smith has his limitations, actually several of us already have but ...
It's assanine to say that the kid is crap & has no value when in fact is quite contrary.
He put on a clinic when Dustin Keller was torching us all over the field.
I view him as a Hybrid cover guy at the most oportune time given the trends in the NFL.
sug |
I remember well your view on how we needed another pass rusher a couple of drafts ago, and time has certainly proven you correct in that regard.
I don't have any issues with Sean Smith other than I'd like to see him develope more ball skills......his biggest flaw IMO is locating the ball in the air and tracking it...which isn't huge since he is a DB and not a WR ( anymore ). I also think he matches up well with TE's, and should he develope better ball skills and take more effort on his tackling ( easy fix ) then our Defense could potentially solve the mismatch problem we continually have with TE's. |
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SUG
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 6452
Location: Alameda, Ca
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 2:15 am Post subject: |
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| green4gulf wrote: | | SUG wrote: | | green4gulf wrote: | | SUG wrote: | | Jaytotha wrote: | | From what I heard we are running a 2 FS defense. Jimmy Wilson is going to be a good FS |
Would I like another Vontae Davis opposite himself ... of course, but I like the personnel we have now.
Would I like a ball hawking FS ... of course since you can't hit anybody in the NFL anymore.
But it seems to me Wilson, Carroll, Culver & R. Jones all offer positional flexibility between FS & SS & some CB.
Given the size of NFL WRs nowadays ...
I'm happy in that our CBs are better suited in Man/press coverage & not a "vanilla zone" coverage giving
up a bunch of cushion.
The last thing we need are exclusive 5' - 9" - 4/4 speed straight up one dimensional Nickle/Zone guys like Will Allen.
I'm a firm believer that Pass rush makes a secondary better & not the other way around.
That's why I like the man to man press coverage on the outside.
If we were to identify someone who could play CB better than Smith then so be it but...
There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever, I'd line S. Smith up in front of Gronkowski/Hernandez &
leave him there all day on Sun.
His size & physical skill set is tailor made for that match up beyond anyone on the Mia roster.
He may not generate a ton of INTs or be the greatest tackler but the dude is physical going up &
getting a hand on the ball. And that precedes making the catch.
sug |
If I only had a nickle for everytime someone on this forum mentioned how the pass rush makes the secondary better LoL. While it is a very true statement, it is also true that the secondary makes the pass rush better. You mention how you prefer press coverage, and that's a perfect example of the Secondary making the pass rush better......one reason you play press coverage is to make those 3 step drops less effective by disrupting the timing and route.....there's not much an outside pass rusher can do to a 3 step drop / timing pattern unless the DB's can disrupt the route and force the QB to either throw it away or hang on to the ball longer.
To clarify; I'm not saying you're inaccurate ( because you aren't )....but I'd just like to point out how Pass Rush and Pass Coverage go hand in hand....if you can only have one or the other then my opinion is go with the better talent. |
Like I said, I'm fine if we were to acquire someone that can out play Smith at CB.
And if that person were on the roster we would have seen it by now.
But I was screaming right here 3 drafts ago that we could/should easily draft 2 OLB rnds 1 & 2.
We had JPeasy & that was it.
Now we have CWake & that's it.
Point is, I don't believe we've given the existing secondary personnel all the support they need.
I don't believe we've tapped into what this grp is fully capable of & that in itself scares me.
I admit that Smith has his limitations, actually several of us already have but ...
It's assanine to say that the kid is crap & has no value when in fact is quite contrary.
He put on a clinic when Dustin Keller was torching us all over the field.
I view him as a Hybrid cover guy at the most oportune time given the trends in the NFL.
sug |
I remember well your view on how we needed another pass rusher a couple of drafts ago, and time has certainly proven you correct in that regard.
I don't have any issues with Sean Smith other than I'd like to see him develope more ball skills......his biggest flaw IMO is locating the ball in the air and tracking it...which isn't huge since he is a DB and not a WR ( anymore ). I also think he matches up well with TE's, and should he develope better ball skills and take more effort on his tackling ( easy fix ) then our Defense could potentially solve the mismatch problem we continually have with TE's. |
Wow you remember that huh ...
We easily need 2 more OLB/DE of C. Wakes caliber just to WCard.
As for Smith I can appreciate the point you bring up him NOT generating INTs but it's not my biggest concern.
I mean technically a CBs job description is primarily to defend against the completion. After that INTs are a simply a
bonus so physical positioning & use of hands to prevent the catch is priority #1 in my view.
My biggest concern with S. Smith is that OCs & QBs can easily shift the speedsters over to him
(Wes Welkers of this league) & exploit him.
Most NFL Nickle Backs can't stop Welker but if you put Smith in that position to fail
then you get what you deserve.
What kind of a Moron DC would ask Will Allen CB to cover Megatron or Fitzgerald !
Isn't that the equivalent of using the wrong tool for the wrong job...?
I'm tellin ya, S. Smith is perfectly suited to run with some of these monster WRs - TEs & should be
out there on every Red Zone snap.
sug
_________________
# 52 |
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green4gulf
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1896
Location: TN, by way of Palm Beach FL
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| SUG wrote: | | green4gulf wrote: | | SUG wrote: | | green4gulf wrote: | | SUG wrote: | | Jaytotha wrote: | | From what I heard we are running a 2 FS defense. Jimmy Wilson is going to be a good FS |
Would I like another Vontae Davis opposite himself ... of course, but I like the personnel we have now.
Would I like a ball hawking FS ... of course since you can't hit anybody in the NFL anymore.
But it seems to me Wilson, Carroll, Culver & R. Jones all offer positional flexibility between FS & SS & some CB.
Given the size of NFL WRs nowadays ...
I'm happy in that our CBs are better suited in Man/press coverage & not a "vanilla zone" coverage giving
up a bunch of cushion.
The last thing we need are exclusive 5' - 9" - 4/4 speed straight up one dimensional Nickle/Zone guys like Will Allen.
I'm a firm believer that Pass rush makes a secondary better & not the other way around.
That's why I like the man to man press coverage on the outside.
If we were to identify someone who could play CB better than Smith then so be it but...
There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever, I'd line S. Smith up in front of Gronkowski/Hernandez &
leave him there all day on Sun.
His size & physical skill set is tailor made for that match up beyond anyone on the Mia roster.
He may not generate a ton of INTs or be the greatest tackler but the dude is physical going up &
getting a hand on the ball. And that precedes making the catch.
sug |
If I only had a nickle for everytime someone on this forum mentioned how the pass rush makes the secondary better LoL. While it is a very true statement, it is also true that the secondary makes the pass rush better. You mention how you prefer press coverage, and that's a perfect example of the Secondary making the pass rush better......one reason you play press coverage is to make those 3 step drops less effective by disrupting the timing and route.....there's not much an outside pass rusher can do to a 3 step drop / timing pattern unless the DB's can disrupt the route and force the QB to either throw it away or hang on to the ball longer.
To clarify; I'm not saying you're inaccurate ( because you aren't )....but I'd just like to point out how Pass Rush and Pass Coverage go hand in hand....if you can only have one or the other then my opinion is go with the better talent. |
Like I said, I'm fine if we were to acquire someone that can out play Smith at CB.
And if that person were on the roster we would have seen it by now.
But I was screaming right here 3 drafts ago that we could/should easily draft 2 OLB rnds 1 & 2.
We had JPeasy & that was it.
Now we have CWake & that's it.
Point is, I don't believe we've given the existing secondary personnel all the support they need.
I don't believe we've tapped into what this grp is fully capable of & that in itself scares me.
I admit that Smith has his limitations, actually several of us already have but ...
It's assanine to say that the kid is crap & has no value when in fact is quite contrary.
He put on a clinic when Dustin Keller was torching us all over the field.
I view him as a Hybrid cover guy at the most oportune time given the trends in the NFL.
sug |
I remember well your view on how we needed another pass rusher a couple of drafts ago, and time has certainly proven you correct in that regard.
I don't have any issues with Sean Smith other than I'd like to see him develope more ball skills......his biggest flaw IMO is locating the ball in the air and tracking it...which isn't huge since he is a DB and not a WR ( anymore ). I also think he matches up well with TE's, and should he develope better ball skills and take more effort on his tackling ( easy fix ) then our Defense could potentially solve the mismatch problem we continually have with TE's. |
Wow you remember that huh ...
We easily need 2 more OLB/DE of C. Wakes caliber just to WCard.
As for Smith I can appreciate the point you bring up him NOT generating INTs but it's not my biggest concern.
I mean technically a CBs job description is primarily to defend against the completion. After that INTs are a simply a
bonus so physical positioning & use of hands to prevent the catch is priority #1 in my view.
My biggest concern with S. Smith is that OCs & QBs can easily shift the speedsters over to him
(Wes Welkers of this league) & exploit him.
Most NFL Nickle Backs can't stop Welker but if you put Smith in that position to fail
then you get what you deserve.
What kind of a Moron DC would ask Will Allen CB to cover Megatron or Fitzgerald !
Isn't that the equivalent of using the wrong tool for the wrong job...?
I'm tellin ya, S. Smith is perfectly suited to run with some of these monster WRs - TEs & should be
out there on every Red Zone snap.
sug |
While I agree that Smith is better suited for covering TE's and large Recievers, the issue with him being matched against the speedier smaller Recievers isn't necessarilly on the DC. If Smith is on the field then Offenses will try to exploit him for the mismatch and will eventually get what they're looking for. This can be said of any player with glaring weaknesses and that's why players train to maintain, sustain, and improve. Smith hasn't improved enough on his weaknesses imo, but he is capable of very good performance when playing to his strengths. |
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Tetsuya_Ryuji
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 294
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| green4gulf wrote: | | While I agree that Smith is better suited for covering TE's and large Recievers, the issue with him being matched against the speedier smaller Recievers isn't necessarilly on the DC. If Smith is on the field then Offenses will try to exploit him for the mismatch and will eventually get what they're looking for. This can be said of any player with glaring weaknesses and that's why players train to maintain, sustain, and improve. Smith hasn't improved enough on his weaknesses imo, but he is capable of very good performance when playing to his strengths. |
It's on Smith and the DC. The DC tells Smith where he is to line up, whether he's covering 1 person the whole game, playing zone or just one side of the field which we did a lot of up until part of last year. The offense aren't the only ones that can make adjustments. Good coordinators use players to their strengths. Smith, however, as you said, hasn't improved on the weaknesses that he does have and the blame for that falls on his shoulders. I'm hoping to see a good year out of him with it being his contract year but we'll see how it goes. |
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SUG
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 6452
Location: Alameda, Ca
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| green4gulf wrote: | | SUG wrote: | | green4gulf wrote: | | SUG wrote: | | green4gulf wrote: | | SUG wrote: | | Jaytotha wrote: | | From what I heard we are running a 2 FS defense. Jimmy Wilson is going to be a good FS |
Would I like another Vontae Davis opposite himself ... of course, but I like the personnel we have now.
Would I like a ball hawking FS ... of course since you can't hit anybody in the NFL anymore.
But it seems to me Wilson, Carroll, Culver & R. Jones all offer positional flexibility between FS & SS & some CB.
Given the size of NFL WRs nowadays ...
I'm happy in that our CBs are better suited in Man/press coverage & not a "vanilla zone" coverage giving
up a bunch of cushion.
The last thing we need are exclusive 5' - 9" - 4/4 speed straight up one dimensional Nickle/Zone guys like Will Allen.
I'm a firm believer that Pass rush makes a secondary better & not the other way around.
That's why I like the man to man press coverage on the outside.
If we were to identify someone who could play CB better than Smith then so be it but...
There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever, I'd line S. Smith up in front of Gronkowski/Hernandez &
leave him there all day on Sun.
His size & physical skill set is tailor made for that match up beyond anyone on the Mia roster.
He may not generate a ton of INTs or be the greatest tackler but the dude is physical going up &
getting a hand on the ball. And that precedes making the catch.
sug |
If I only had a nickle for everytime someone on this forum mentioned how the pass rush makes the secondary better LoL. While it is a very true statement, it is also true that the secondary makes the pass rush better. You mention how you prefer press coverage, and that's a perfect example of the Secondary making the pass rush better......one reason you play press coverage is to make those 3 step drops less effective by disrupting the timing and route.....there's not much an outside pass rusher can do to a 3 step drop / timing pattern unless the DB's can disrupt the route and force the QB to either throw it away or hang on to the ball longer.
To clarify; I'm not saying you're inaccurate ( because you aren't )....but I'd just like to point out how Pass Rush and Pass Coverage go hand in hand....if you can only have one or the other then my opinion is go with the better talent. |
Like I said, I'm fine if we were to acquire someone that can out play Smith at CB.
And if that person were on the roster we would have seen it by now.
But I was screaming right here 3 drafts ago that we could/should easily draft 2 OLB rnds 1 & 2.
We had JPeasy & that was it.
Now we have CWake & that's it.
Point is, I don't believe we've given the existing secondary personnel all the support they need.
I don't believe we've tapped into what this grp is fully capable of & that in itself scares me.
I admit that Smith has his limitations, actually several of us already have but ...
It's assanine to say that the kid is crap & has no value when in fact is quite contrary.
He put on a clinic when Dustin Keller was torching us all over the field.
I view him as a Hybrid cover guy at the most oportune time given the trends in the NFL.
sug |
I remember well your view on how we needed another pass rusher a couple of drafts ago, and time has certainly proven you correct in that regard.
I don't have any issues with Sean Smith other than I'd like to see him develope more ball skills......his biggest flaw IMO is locating the ball in the air and tracking it...which isn't huge since he is a DB and not a WR ( anymore ). I also think he matches up well with TE's, and should he develope better ball skills and take more effort on his tackling ( easy fix ) then our Defense could potentially solve the mismatch problem we continually have with TE's. |
Wow you remember that huh ...
We easily need 2 more OLB/DE of C. Wakes caliber just to WCard.
As for Smith I can appreciate the point you bring up him NOT generating INTs but it's not my biggest concern.
I mean technically a CBs job description is primarily to defend against the completion. After that INTs are a simply a
bonus so physical positioning & use of hands to prevent the catch is priority #1 in my view.
My biggest concern with S. Smith is that OCs & QBs can easily shift the speedsters over to him
(Wes Welkers of this league) & exploit him.
Most NFL Nickle Backs can't stop Welker but if you put Smith in that position to fail
then you get what you deserve.
What kind of a Moron DC would ask Will Allen CB to cover Megatron or Fitzgerald !
Isn't that the equivalent of using the wrong tool for the wrong job...?
I'm tellin ya, S. Smith is perfectly suited to run with some of these monster WRs - TEs & should be
out there on every Red Zone snap.
sug |
While I agree that Smith is better suited for covering TE's and large Recievers, the issue with him being matched against the speedier smaller Recievers isn't necessarilly on the DC. If Smith is on the field then Offenses will try to exploit him for the mismatch and will eventually get what they're looking for. This can be said of any player with glaring weaknesses and that's why players train to maintain, sustain, and improve. Smith hasn't improved enough on his weaknesses imo, but he is capable of very good performance when playing to his strengths. |
I dissagree, I think he has shown improvement & if he hadn't he wouldn't have been left out there all that time.
As for playing to Smiths strengths, we've already agreed, park him in front of the TE's or have him
shadow the bigger WRs no matter where they line up prior to the snap.
Force the Offense to go somewhere else with the ball.
Frankly I like the idea of moving him inside (between the hashes) over the slot WR or the TE cause if he can use his tremendous
wingspan & get those paws on a ball it should generate tipped balls.
The Elite QBs know how to exploit the middle of the field
Utilize him in True Man to Man /Press coverage, End of Story.
sug
_________________
# 52 |
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green4gulf
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1896
Location: TN, by way of Palm Beach FL
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| Tetsuya_Ryuji wrote: | | green4gulf wrote: | | While I agree that Smith is better suited for covering TE's and large Recievers, the issue with him being matched against the speedier smaller Recievers isn't necessarilly on the DC. If Smith is on the field then Offenses will try to exploit him for the mismatch and will eventually get what they're looking for. This can be said of any player with glaring weaknesses and that's why players train to maintain, sustain, and improve. Smith hasn't improved enough on his weaknesses imo, but he is capable of very good performance when playing to his strengths. |
It's on Smith and the DC. The DC tells Smith where he is to line up, whether he's covering 1 person the whole game, playing zone or just one side of the field which we did a lot of up until part of last year. The offense aren't the only ones that can make adjustments. Good coordinators use players to their strengths. Smith, however, as you said, hasn't improved on the weaknesses that he does have and the blame for that falls on his shoulders. I'm hoping to see a good year out of him with it being his contract year but we'll see how it goes. |
Even when the Defensive gameplan is structured towards Smith's strengths by the DC, an NFL Offense will isolate and exploit his weaknesses and eventually the Offense will be successfull.....this happens to every Defensive player in the NFL every game. A DC can only do so much, especially with DB's since they are so easily isolated. |
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green4gulf
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1896
Location: TN, by way of Palm Beach FL
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| SUG wrote: | | green4gulf wrote: | | SUG wrote: | | green4gulf wrote: | | SUG wrote: | | green4gulf wrote: | | SUG wrote: | | Jaytotha wrote: | | From what I heard we are running a 2 FS defense. Jimmy Wilson is going to be a good FS |
Would I like another Vontae Davis opposite himself ... of course, but I like the personnel we have now.
Would I like a ball hawking FS ... of course since you can't hit anybody in the NFL anymore.
But it seems to me Wilson, Carroll, Culver & R. Jones all offer positional flexibility between FS & SS & some CB.
Given the size of NFL WRs nowadays ...
I'm happy in that our CBs are better suited in Man/press coverage & not a "vanilla zone" coverage giving
up a bunch of cushion.
The last thing we need are exclusive 5' - 9" - 4/4 speed straight up one dimensional Nickle/Zone guys like Will Allen.
I'm a firm believer that Pass rush makes a secondary better & not the other way around.
That's why I like the man to man press coverage on the outside.
If we were to identify someone who could play CB better than Smith then so be it but...
There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever, I'd line S. Smith up in front of Gronkowski/Hernandez &
leave him there all day on Sun.
His size & physical skill set is tailor made for that match up beyond anyone on the Mia roster.
He may not generate a ton of INTs or be the greatest tackler but the dude is physical going up &
getting a hand on the ball. And that precedes making the catch.
sug |
If I only had a nickle for everytime someone on this forum mentioned how the pass rush makes the secondary better LoL. While it is a very true statement, it is also true that the secondary makes the pass rush better. You mention how you prefer press coverage, and that's a perfect example of the Secondary making the pass rush better......one reason you play press coverage is to make those 3 step drops less effective by disrupting the timing and route.....there's not much an outside pass rusher can do to a 3 step drop / timing pattern unless the DB's can disrupt the route and force the QB to either throw it away or hang on to the ball longer.
To clarify; I'm not saying you're inaccurate ( because you aren't )....but I'd just like to point out how Pass Rush and Pass Coverage go hand in hand....if you can only have one or the other then my opinion is go with the better talent. |
Like I said, I'm fine if we were to acquire someone that can out play Smith at CB.
And if that person were on the roster we would have seen it by now.
But I was screaming right here 3 drafts ago that we could/should easily draft 2 OLB rnds 1 & 2.
We had JPeasy & that was it.
Now we have CWake & that's it.
Point is, I don't believe we've given the existing secondary personnel all the support they need.
I don't believe we've tapped into what this grp is fully capable of & that in itself scares me.
I admit that Smith has his limitations, actually several of us already have but ...
It's assanine to say that the kid is crap & has no value when in fact is quite contrary.
He put on a clinic when Dustin Keller was torching us all over the field.
I view him as a Hybrid cover guy at the most oportune time given the trends in the NFL.
sug |
I remember well your view on how we needed another pass rusher a couple of drafts ago, and time has certainly proven you correct in that regard.
I don't have any issues with Sean Smith other than I'd like to see him develope more ball skills......his biggest flaw IMO is locating the ball in the air and tracking it...which isn't huge since he is a DB and not a WR ( anymore ). I also think he matches up well with TE's, and should he develope better ball skills and take more effort on his tackling ( easy fix ) then our Defense could potentially solve the mismatch problem we continually have with TE's. |
Wow you remember that huh ...
We easily need 2 more OLB/DE of C. Wakes caliber just to WCard.
As for Smith I can appreciate the point you bring up him NOT generating INTs but it's not my biggest concern.
I mean technically a CBs job description is primarily to defend against the completion. After that INTs are a simply a
bonus so physical positioning & use of hands to prevent the catch is priority #1 in my view.
My biggest concern with S. Smith is that OCs & QBs can easily shift the speedsters over to him
(Wes Welkers of this league) & exploit him.
Most NFL Nickle Backs can't stop Welker but if you put Smith in that position to fail
then you get what you deserve.
What kind of a Moron DC would ask Will Allen CB to cover Megatron or Fitzgerald !
Isn't that the equivalent of using the wrong tool for the wrong job...?
I'm tellin ya, S. Smith is perfectly suited to run with some of these monster WRs - TEs & should be
out there on every Red Zone snap.
sug |
While I agree that Smith is better suited for covering TE's and large Recievers, the issue with him being matched against the speedier smaller Recievers isn't necessarilly on the DC. If Smith is on the field then Offenses will try to exploit him for the mismatch and will eventually get what they're looking for. This can be said of any player with glaring weaknesses and that's why players train to maintain, sustain, and improve. Smith hasn't improved enough on his weaknesses imo, but he is capable of very good performance when playing to his strengths. |
I dissagree, I think he has shown improvement & if he hadn't he wouldn't have been left out there all that time.
As for playing to Smiths strengths, we've already agreed, park him in front of the TE's or have him
shadow the bigger WRs no matter where they line up prior to the snap.
Force the Offense to go somewhere else with the ball.
Frankly I like the idea of moving him inside (between the hashes) over the slot WR or the TE cause if he can use his tremendous
wingspan & get those paws on a ball it should generate tipped balls.
The Elite QBs know how to exploit the middle of the field
Utilize him in True Man to Man /Press coverage, End of Story.
sug |
It's not the end of story if I post again
I don't have any major disagreement with you on Smith ( except for keep him off of slot Recivers....that's an unfavorable mismatch for us against most teams ).....my only disagreement is with the common view that the Coverage is so much less important than the pass rush. They are equal parts in scheme and execution........Great Pass Rush with poor Coverage and a team Defense gets picked apart......Great Coverage with a poor Pass Rush and a team Defense gets picked apart. My point is we have to be adequate in both parts and that we can't neglect either. |
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PhinFan52
Joined: 01 Nov 2007
Posts: 4308
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| IrishDolfan wrote: | That would be a mistake in my opinion. You want your last line of defense to be good tacklers and that is Smiths weakness.
Irish Dolfan |
Smith's first 3 seasons.. 151 tkls.. 126 solo.. 3 ints... 28 pd...
Bell's first 3 seasons.. (45 games) 115 tkls.. 75 solo... 1 int.. 17 pd...
Bell was a QB at E. Kentucky... Smith played CB and S at Utah |
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Kaiowas05
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 944
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| PhinFan52 wrote: | | IrishDolfan wrote: | That would be a mistake in my opinion. You want your last line of defense to be good tacklers and that is Smiths weakness.
Irish Dolfan |
Smith's first 3 seasons.. 151 tkls.. 126 solo.. 3 ints... 28 pd...
Bell's first 3 seasons.. (45 games) 115 tkls.. 75 solo... 1 int.. 17 pd...
Bell was a QB at E. Kentucky... Smith played CB and S at Utah |
personally as a corner, solo tackles (which is what I guess you are highlighting here) are a million times easier to make on a receiver you are supposed to be within a yard of rather than against the run. I'd hazard a guess that most of smiths solo tackles are pushing guys OB or just simply dragging them down before the receiver turns up field after the catch. I dont dislike the idea of using him at S but it would have to be limited to what he is good at |
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PhinFan52
Joined: 01 Nov 2007
Posts: 4308
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Kaiowas05 wrote: | | PhinFan52 wrote: | | IrishDolfan wrote: | That would be a mistake in my opinion. You want your last line of defense to be good tacklers and that is Smiths weakness.
Irish Dolfan |
Smith's first 3 seasons.. 151 tkls.. 126 solo.. 3 ints... 28 pd...
Bell's first 3 seasons.. (45 games) 115 tkls.. 75 solo... 1 int.. 17 pd...
Bell was a QB at E. Kentucky... Smith played CB and S at Utah |
personally as a corner, solo tackles (which is what I guess you are highlighting here) are a million times easier to make on a receiver you are supposed to be within a yard of rather than against the run. I'd hazard a guess that most of smiths solo tackles are pushing guys OB or just simply dragging them down before the receiver turns up field after the catch. I dont dislike the idea of using him at S but it would have to be limited to what he is good at |
point is.. we turned a QB into a pretty good SS... why couldn't we turn a CB/S into a pretty good S ?
and as stated Smith's weakness is tackling.. but with 126 of his 151 tackles being "solo" .. it says to me he's a tackler.. not a hanger on 'er
and I've seen plenty of FS/SS.. push receivers OB or run down a guy and drag him down from behind... |
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green4gulf
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1896
Location: TN, by way of Palm Beach FL
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| PhinFan52 wrote: | | Kaiowas05 wrote: | | PhinFan52 wrote: | | IrishDolfan wrote: | That would be a mistake in my opinion. You want your last line of defense to be good tacklers and that is Smiths weakness.
Irish Dolfan |
Smith's first 3 seasons.. 151 tkls.. 126 solo.. 3 ints... 28 pd...
Bell's first 3 seasons.. (45 games) 115 tkls.. 75 solo... 1 int.. 17 pd...
Bell was a QB at E. Kentucky... Smith played CB and S at Utah |
personally as a corner, solo tackles (which is what I guess you are highlighting here) are a million times easier to make on a receiver you are supposed to be within a yard of rather than against the run. I'd hazard a guess that most of smiths solo tackles are pushing guys OB or just simply dragging them down before the receiver turns up field after the catch. I dont dislike the idea of using him at S but it would have to be limited to what he is good at |
point is.. we turned a QB into a pretty good SS... why couldn't we turn a CB/S into a pretty good S ?
and as stated Smith's weakness is tackling.. but with 126 of his 151 tackles being "solo" .. it says to me he's a tackler.. not a hanger on 'er
and I've seen plenty of FS/SS.. push receivers OB or run down a guy and drag him down from behind... |
Given the option of having a Safety that is a strong tackler but weak in coverage, or; a Safety that is strong in coverage but weak in tackling.....I'd take the strong in coverage guy everytime.
It's much easier to coach most players to improve at tackling than to improve their coverage skills....whereas coverage skills have much more to do with talent, tackling is just an issue of will and repetition. |
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