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bagh


Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 8237
Location: Toronto, Ontario (That's Canada folks )
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 12:02 pm    Post subject: WR Corps Reply with quote

So I was thinking of what we have been doing over the last few years with our WR corps, and I can't help but smirk at the fact that a historically big flaw, our inabilty to develop WR, has turned into a strength.

I think this tied into the fact that we have been drafting well under JR, used relatively high picks, and had great QB play.

We had developed Steve Smith, Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz, and to certain lower extent, Mario Manningham.

So my question is, if Nicks or Cruz's contract demands become too high, do we trade them and rely upon our system to unearth the next good WR? If so, then to who should aim to trade, to whom and for what kind or return?

My view is that if they ask for too much, we should trade them preferably to a team out west for a 1st rounder. If the Giants are right about Randle, then in 2 years time he should be ready to explode.
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Gmen


Joined: 20 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Giants have something special with Nicks and Cruz, so initially I would say no to a trade.

But on second thought, if Jerrel Jernigan shows that can handle the slot and Cruz is asking for a ridiculous sum of money, I would consider a trade. I just think there is something about that slot position in Gilbrides offense that inflates stats. Steve Smith wasn't an overly talented player, and set the Giants record in receptions. Then Cruz has a tremendous year. I'm not saying Cruz is a product of the system, I'm just saying that he's not irreplaceable.

I would say no to any Nicks trade. He is a top 10 receiver in the league and needs to be locked up for a long time.
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BassistofDoom


Joined: 17 Dec 2011
Posts: 616
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see Nicks getting traded if contract issues become too much of a distraction, but not Cruz. Since Cruz entered the league he has been the ultimate team player and I don't see him ever being in a situation like that.

I do think though that if Nicks had to be traded either Rueben Randle could step in or the Giants would be able to find another no. 1 target for Manning (or no. 2 with Cruz at no. 1). I trust Jerry Reese and I'm sure he'd be able to find a replacement.
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titwio


Joined: 09 Jan 2011
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Location: Bronx NY *Sio Moore mofo's
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want to ever think about the possibility of the Giants losing Nicks. Like mentioned above...he needs to be locked up. He can do it all and the most valuable being in that "X" receiver role.

Cruz had a real good season last year but I still feel he needs another year of evaluation before he's offered anything in terms of top money. He's still coming off his first full season as an UDFA and now in his second stint is going to have to deal with teams game planning for him. I feel he deserves some incentives added though this year and if he can show to he can maintain his production then I have no problem with the Giants giving him the long term money.

Keep em both...If they can extend Nicks during this season then I think it could make it easier to to handle Cruz the following. (If he shows he can maintain the production)
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BlackandBlue


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

titwio wrote:
I don't want to ever think about the possibility of the Giants losing Nicks. Like mentioned above...he needs to be locked up. He can do it all and the most valuable being in that "X" receiver role.

Cruz had a real good season last year but I still feel he needs another year of evaluation before he's offered anything in terms of top money. He's still coming off his first full season as an UDFA and now in his second stint is going to have to deal with teams game planning for him. I feel he deserves some incentives added though this year and if he can show to he can maintain his production then I have no problem with the Giants giving him the long term money.

Keep em both...If they can extend Nicks during this season then I think it could make it easier to to handle Cruz the following. (If he shows he can maintain the production)


I don't this line of reasoning. At all. Cruz had some of his biggest plays against the opposing team best defenders.
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titwio


Joined: 09 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackandBlue wrote:
titwio wrote:
I don't want to ever think about the possibility of the Giants losing Nicks. Like mentioned above...he needs to be locked up. He can do it all and the most valuable being in that "X" receiver role.

Cruz had a real good season last year but I still feel he needs another year of evaluation before he's offered anything in terms of top money. He's still coming off his first full season as an UDFA and now in his second stint is going to have to deal with teams game planning for him. I feel he deserves some incentives added though this year and if he can show to he can maintain his production then I have no problem with the Giants giving him the long term money.

Keep em both...If they can extend Nicks during this season then I think it could make it easier to to handle Cruz the following. (If he shows he can maintain the production)


I don't this line of reasoning. At all. Cruz had some of his biggest plays against the opposing team best defenders.


All I'm saying is it's going to be a lot different this season for him. He came out of nowhere last year and NOW teams have the luxury of studying a whole off season's worth of film on him that they weren't afforded last year.

He will be a major focus in teams game planning against the Giants... whether you like this line of reasoning or not, it's just a fact.
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redsoxsuck05


Joined: 16 Jan 2008
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Location: LI
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cruz won't break as many TDs after the catch, but he will improve his route running and he'll be better on 3rd down.

I think Steve Smith was just a really good football player when we had him, albeit not as many 3rd and longs because we had a running game and O-Line. Outstanding route runner, unmatched chemistry with Eli, etc.
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BassistofDoom


Joined: 17 Dec 2011
Posts: 616
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

titwio wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:
titwio wrote:
I don't want to ever think about the possibility of the Giants losing Nicks. Like mentioned above...he needs to be locked up. He can do it all and the most valuable being in that "X" receiver role.

Cruz had a real good season last year but I still feel he needs another year of evaluation before he's offered anything in terms of top money. He's still coming off his first full season as an UDFA and now in his second stint is going to have to deal with teams game planning for him. I feel he deserves some incentives added though this year and if he can show to he can maintain his production then I have no problem with the Giants giving him the long term money.

Keep em both...If they can extend Nicks during this season then I think it could make it easier to to handle Cruz the following. (If he shows he can maintain the production)


I don't this line of reasoning. At all. Cruz had some of his biggest plays against the opposing team best defenders.


All I'm saying is it's going to be a lot different this season for him. He came out of nowhere last year and NOW teams have the luxury of studying a whole off season's worth of film on him that they weren't afforded last year.

And I think Cruz knows that things will be different next year and that he'll still need to be evaluated because he recently talked about how extra money would be nice but he wasn't going to hold out or cause a fuss to get it. Definitely a class act.
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bballbkd1001


Joined: 04 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel like we can lock up both of them around 7.5 mill a piece.


Now remember this, if we had ANY intentions of letting nicks or Cruz walk, we would have kept manningham for half the price.
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GMENNATION


Joined: 09 Feb 2012
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Location: Greater New York Area
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if we end up having to choose between the two, i would take nicks... cruz is a great talent but i still don't believe he can be a number 1 guy. he's a very very good #2 but he's not a #1 IMO. hope we can keep both though
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bagh


Joined: 13 Mar 2008
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Location: Toronto, Ontario (That's Canada folks )
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question: Would you give them identical deals or would you pay one more than the other?
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biggsam48


Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 637
Location: New York
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bagh wrote:
Question: Would you give them identical deals or would you pay one more than the other?


I think Nicks ends up getting more. More valuable on the outside, and Cruz probably wants to stick around his home.
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phillybul


Joined: 30 Mar 2009
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Location: Philadelphia
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Randle doesnt need 2 seasons. Put him on the outside with Nicks, Cruz in slot and NYG passing attack is scary. I believe Randle will make you forget about Mario Manningham if you havent already.
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IR0NM1KE


Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 11765
Location: Alderney City
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gmen wrote:
I think the Giants have something special with Nicks and Cruz, so initially I would say no to a trade.

But on second thought, if Jerrel Jernigan shows that can handle the slot and Cruz is asking for a ridiculous sum of money, I would consider a trade. I just think there is something about that slot position in Gilbrides offense that inflates stats. Steve Smith wasn't an overly talented player, and set the Giants record in receptions. Then Cruz has a tremendous year. I'm not saying Cruz is a product of the system, I'm just saying that he's not irreplaceable.

I would say no to any Nicks trade. He is a top 10 receiver in the league and needs to be locked up for a long time.


I agree with this 100%. Nicks is the guy that you lock up long term if push comes to shove. Hopefully we can secure both and allow them to grow with Eli through their prime years. However, if we have to lose one of the two, I would say Cruz is more replaceable.

In a perfect world, Nicks and Randle play outside and Cruz mans the slot for the next 5+ years.
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Byrdman


Joined: 09 Feb 2010
Posts: 566
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we can lock up Cruz with a 5 year 25 million kind of deal. I love what Nicks brings to our passing game but he needs to stay healthy for a whole season before I would be willing to give him a big payday. He will likely command a 5 year 50 million dollar deal.
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