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Joe Flacco ranked #74 on NFL Network's top 100 list
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
GaTechRavens wrote:
rmthawk64 wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:


1. *Reserved for healthy Manning*/Aaron Rodgers
2. Aaron Rodgers
3. Drew Breas
4. Tom Brady/ Reserved for Manning if not the same player
5. Philip Rivers
6. Big Ben
7. Eli Manning
8. Matthew Stafford
9. Tony Romo
10. Cam Newton
11. Mike Vick (durability)
12. Joe Flacco
13. Matt Ryan
14. Jay Cutler
15. Matt Schaub (durability)


Not a bad list but Cutler is wayyy too low. He's closer to 5th than not in the top 10.

I'd also drop Rivers a few spots after last year (but not as many spots as I'd assume most would)


Cutler suddenly became ridiculously overrated this year, and I'm not sure why.


Yeah, I've never been a Cutler fan. I like where DB ranked him, and I guess looking at his list I'd almost be inclined to agree, but I think Schaub is better than Flacco.

Based on talent and production when healthy yes, but look at how many games he's missed and how many wins he's accounted for. His lack of durability has played a role as late as this year in the overall success of his team. Put Flacco on that Texans team as opposed to a rookie... and I dare say the Texans beat us and are in the Superbowl, why? Because he has stayed healthy enough to not miss games, to not cost his team a chance to win by not being able to play. His durability concerns at such a premium position isn't something that I can overlook.

Missing games as a QB is IMO a big deal. You're talking about a guy that's supposed to be a "coach on the field" and a "leader", he's also the guy getting the majority of the snaps and attention over the backup QBs... that's a lot of reserouces and so I tend to value dependency much more than others in the rankings equation.

In terms of Cutler as addressed above, I like him, he has top 10 talent... but he's also been inconsistent. He hasn't done more in a debilitating offense than Flacco (he just looks "smoother" while doing worse) and then the recent injuries and I have to question his standing until further notice... same with Vick.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
GaTechRavens wrote:
rmthawk64 wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:


1. *Reserved for healthy Manning*/Aaron Rodgers
2. Aaron Rodgers
3. Drew Breas
4. Tom Brady/ Reserved for Manning if not the same player
5. Philip Rivers
6. Big Ben
7. Eli Manning
8. Matthew Stafford
9. Tony Romo
10. Cam Newton
11. Mike Vick (durability)
12. Joe Flacco
13. Matt Ryan
14. Jay Cutler
15. Matt Schaub (durability)


Not a bad list but Cutler is wayyy too low. He's closer to 5th than not in the top 10.

I'd also drop Rivers a few spots after last year (but not as many spots as I'd assume most would)


Cutler suddenly became ridiculously overrated this year, and I'm not sure why.


Yeah, I've never been a Cutler fan. I like where DB ranked him, and I guess looking at his list I'd almost be inclined to agree, but I think Schaub is better than Flacco.

Based on talent and production when healthy yes, but look at how many games he's missed and how many wins he's accounted for. His lack of durability has played a role as late as this year in the overall success of his team. Put Flacco on that Texans team as opposed to a rookie... and I dare say the Texans beat us and are in the Superbowl, why? Because he has stayed healthy enough to not miss games, to not cost his team a chance to win by not being able to play. His durability concerns at such a premium position isn't something that I can overlook.

Missing games as a QB is IMO a big deal. You're talking about a guy that's supposed to be a "coach on the field" and a "leader", he's also the guy getting the majority of the snaps and attention over the backup QBs... that's a lot of reserouces and so I tend to value dependency much more than others in the rankings equation.

In terms of Cutler as addressed above, I like him, he has top 10 talent... but he's also been inconsistent. He hasn't done more in a debilitating offense than Flacco (he just looks "smoother" while doing worse) and then the recent injuries and I have to question his standing until further notice... same with Vick.


So why is Stafford on this list?
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I'd say he's [Dennis Pitta] the fourth best TE in the division... Cameron > Miller > Gresham > Eiffert = Pitta
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:

So why is Stafford on this list?

Good question. Stafford just had himself an elite, historic level year (5000 yards passing and over 35 touchdowns). That might normally place a guy in the top 5. Those are ridiculous numbers.... So he simply fact that he's ONLY at #8 on the list is IMO due justice for his durability concerns. Factor in that Schaub is at #15 and assume he might be 10/11 without the injuries.. Maybe slightly higher- maybe. So we're talking about a 4 spot drop or do. Stafford most certainly had a top 4 caliber year so I'd say his drop is consistent with what we see with Stafford.

But Stafford would be on the list regardless.
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gooselovechild


Joined: 29 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
GaTechRavens wrote:
rmthawk64 wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:


1. *Reserved for healthy Manning*/Aaron Rodgers
2. Aaron Rodgers
3. Drew Breas
4. Tom Brady/ Reserved for Manning if not the same player
5. Philip Rivers
6. Big Ben
7. Eli Manning
8. Matthew Stafford
9. Tony Romo
10. Cam Newton
11. Mike Vick (durability)
12. Joe Flacco
13. Matt Ryan
14. Jay Cutler
15. Matt Schaub (durability)


Not a bad list but Cutler is wayyy too low. He's closer to 5th than not in the top 10.

I'd also drop Rivers a few spots after last year (but not as many spots as I'd assume most would)


Cutler suddenly became ridiculously overrated this year, and I'm not sure why.


Yeah, I've never been a Cutler fan. I like where DB ranked him, and I guess looking at his list I'd almost be inclined to agree, but I think Schaub is better than Flacco.

Based on talent and production when healthy yes, but look at how many games he's missed and how many wins he's accounted for. His lack of durability has played a role as late as this year in the overall success of his team. Put Flacco on that Texans team as opposed to a rookie... and I dare say the Texans beat us and are in the Superbowl, why? Because he has stayed healthy enough to not miss games, to not cost his team a chance to win by not being able to play. His durability concerns at such a premium position isn't something that I can overlook.

Missing games as a QB is IMO a big deal. You're talking about a guy that's supposed to be a "coach on the field" and a "leader", he's also the guy getting the majority of the snaps and attention over the backup QBs... that's a lot of reserouces and so I tend to value dependency much more than others in the rankings equation.

In terms of Cutler as addressed above, I like him, he has top 10 talent... but he's also been inconsistent. He hasn't done more in a debilitating offense than Flacco (he just looks "smoother" while doing worse) and then the recent injuries and I have to question his standing until further notice... same with Vick.


So why is Stafford on this list?


One of the 5 best statistical seasons in the history of the NFL would ne my guess.

I would also argue that Flacco and Schaub are comparible in production, since Flacco never had a top 2-3 WR to throw to, plays in the northern weather rather than in 9 dome games per year minimum, and largely the AFCN has had better defenses than the AFCS in the 4 seasons they've both been in the laegue together.

Seasons GS Comp% Yds/Att TDs Ints Fmb Fmbl Lost
Flacco 4 64 60.8 7.1 80 46 39 14
Schaub 8 66 64.3 7.9 98 58 35 14

You can argue that Schaub is slightly better, but even if he is, the gap is negligible. Don't let those highlight reel catches by Andre Johnson convince you that there's a significant difference between the two.
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DontTazeMeBro


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Calvin Johnson has the same effect on an offense that Randy Moss did. Lob the ball up anywhere near him and you have a huge play. Open things up for everyone else. Whenever I watch the Lions I have it in the back of my mind that Stafford will do something stupid to potentially cost them the game. And it never fails. I'll take Flacco over him 10 times out of 10.
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GaTechRavens


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DontTazeMeBro wrote:
I think Calvin Johnson has the same effect on an offense that Randy Moss did. Lob the ball up anywhere near him and you have a huge play. Open things up for everyone else. Whenever I watch the Lions I have it in the back of my mind that Stafford will do something stupid to potentially cost them the game. And it never fails. I'll take Flacco over him 10 times out of 10.


Nonsense. Stafford is the man who makes that offense go, and I think the Lions' inability to produce a decent offense with Calvin from 2007-2010 proves that.
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DontTazeMeBro


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GaTechRavens wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
I think Calvin Johnson has the same effect on an offense that Randy Moss did. Lob the ball up anywhere near him and you have a huge play. Open things up for everyone else. Whenever I watch the Lions I have it in the back of my mind that Stafford will do something stupid to potentially cost them the game. And it never fails. I'll take Flacco over him 10 times out of 10.


Nonsense. Stafford is the man who makes that offense go, and I think the Lions' inability to produce a decent offense with Calvin from 2007-2010 proves that.


That proves he's better than Drew Stanton, Dan Orlovsky, Jon Kitna, Shaun Hill, and any of the other scrubs they put on the field.
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GaTechRavens


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DontTazeMeBro wrote:
GaTechRavens wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
I think Calvin Johnson has the same effect on an offense that Randy Moss did. Lob the ball up anywhere near him and you have a huge play. Open things up for everyone else. Whenever I watch the Lions I have it in the back of my mind that Stafford will do something stupid to potentially cost them the game. And it never fails. I'll take Flacco over him 10 times out of 10.


Nonsense. Stafford is the man who makes that offense go, and I think the Lions' inability to produce a decent offense with Calvin from 2007-2010 proves that.


That proves he's better than Drew Stanton, Dan Orlovsky, Jon Kitna, Shaun Hill, and any of the other scrubs they put on the field.


Except not a single one of those quarterbacks played any better with Calvin Johnson than they did before or after their stints with the Lions.

That's the great big myth of elite receivers, including Calvin. If we're supposed to believe that he elevated Stafford so much, why couldn't he elevate anybody else?
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STrid


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GaTechRavens wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
GaTechRavens wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
I think Calvin Johnson has the same effect on an offense that Randy Moss did. Lob the ball up anywhere near him and you have a huge play. Open things up for everyone else. Whenever I watch the Lions I have it in the back of my mind that Stafford will do something stupid to potentially cost them the game. And it never fails. I'll take Flacco over him 10 times out of 10.


Nonsense. Stafford is the man who makes that offense go, and I think the Lions' inability to produce a decent offense with Calvin from 2007-2010 proves that.


That proves he's better than Drew Stanton, Dan Orlovsky, Jon Kitna, Shaun Hill, and any of the other scrubs they put on the field.


Except not a single one of those quarterbacks played any better with Calvin Johnson than they did before or after their stints with the Lions.

That's the great big myth of elite receivers, including Calvin. If we're supposed to believe that he elevated Stafford so much, why couldn't he elevate anybody else?


I tend to agree with GaTechRavens here.

That elite receiver that so many talks about is great in theory, but I've very seldom witnessed it in reality. It's a very relevant question why Megatron wasn't able to elevate the play of those scrubs he had throwing him the ball before that. It's the same with Andre Johnson and Fitz. Both Kolb and Skelton still looked [inappropriate/removed] with Fitz on the field, even though he might be the best in the biz. Similarly Andre wasn't able to do much very much without Schaub.

I think the reality is that you can easily get by without a great WR if you just have plenty of good ones that compliment each other. Look at NO or GB. Both teams have a plethora of talented WR's, but none that is truly elite, yet they still produce high-powered passing attacks year after year.
There is just so much more to being a good QB, and being able to produce like one, than having one elite WR to bomb it to.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DontTazeMeBro wrote:
I think Calvin Johnson has the same effect on an offense that Randy Moss did. Lob the ball up anywhere near him and you have a huge play. Open things up for everyone else. Whenever I watch the Lions I have it in the back of my mind that Stafford will do something stupid to potentially cost them the game. And it never fails. I'll take Flacco over him 10 times out of 10.


I will, too.

Put Flacco in that offense (shotgun, with CJ and a non-idiotic OC) and Flacco probably puts up better numbers and stays healthy.
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I'd say he's [Dennis Pitta] the fourth best TE in the division... Cameron > Miller > Gresham > Eiffert = Pitta
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DontTazeMeBro


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I know, the Lions haven't had a 16 game starter at QB until 2011. It's pretty much been a revolving door. And the QBs that were there weren't NFL caliber QBs. They were also near the bottom of the league in sacks allowed until 2010.

Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald are great WRs. But they aren't Calvin Johnson. CJ is one of the most freakish talents in the history of the game. The only player who is comparable is Randy Moss.
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janky


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
I think Calvin Johnson has the same effect on an offense that Randy Moss did. Lob the ball up anywhere near him and you have a huge play. Open things up for everyone else. Whenever I watch the Lions I have it in the back of my mind that Stafford will do something stupid to potentially cost them the game. And it never fails. I'll take Flacco over him 10 times out of 10.


I will, too.

Put Flacco in that offense (shotgun, with CJ and a non-idiotic OC) and Flacco probably puts up better numbers and stays healthy.


That's the thing. We don't need him to put up crazy inflated numbers to win games. Our formula is to run the football, control the clock and play defense. That may not result in a lot of points but it does lead to a lot of victories. Joe also has an extremely dangerous back in Ray Rice. Something that Rodgers, Stafford, both Mannings, Brees, Brady etc. don't have. Their offenses are designed around the pass. Thats their formula. When you have a weapon like RR in the system that we run, you use him and you win games. If Flacco was in an offense where he's asked to throw the ball more, there's no doubt he would still be succesful. Flacco can sling the ball around and has the swag to do it. He just hasn't been asked to yet. This year may be different, with his young and improving offensive weapons and especially with the Suggs injury, we may need some extra offense and this year may be Joe's coming out party. Also you know there's motivation behind that Pats loss in the AFCG. I'd still rather have wins than stats, but I think Flacco can have both starting this year. Flacco non believers can be stubborn and a PITA, not necessarily on this site, but I hope the upcoming years and a few SB rings can change that. /rant off.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

janky wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
I think Calvin Johnson has the same effect on an offense that Randy Moss did. Lob the ball up anywhere near him and you have a huge play. Open things up for everyone else. Whenever I watch the Lions I have it in the back of my mind that Stafford will do something stupid to potentially cost them the game. And it never fails. I'll take Flacco over him 10 times out of 10.


I will, too.

Put Flacco in that offense (shotgun, with CJ and a non-idiotic OC) and Flacco probably puts up better numbers and stays healthy.


That's the thing. We don't need him to put up crazy inflated numbers to win games. Our formula is to run the football, control the clock and play defense. That may not result in a lot of points but it does lead to a lot of victories. Joe also has an extremely dangerous back in Ray Rice. Something that Rodgers, Stafford, both Mannings, Brees, Brady etc. don't have. Their offenses are designed around the pass. Thats their formula. When you have a weapon like RR in the system that we run, you use him and you win games. If Flacco was in an offense where he's asked to throw the ball more, there's no doubt he would still be succesful. Flacco can sling the ball around and has the swag to do it. He just hasn't been asked to yet. This year may be different, with his young and improving offensive weapons and especially with the Suggs injury, we may need some extra offense and this year may be Joe's coming out party. Also you know there's motivation behind that Pats loss in the AFCG. I'd still rather have wins than stats, but I think Flacco can have both starting this year. Flacco non believers can be stubborn and a PITA, not necessarily on this site, but I hope the upcoming years and a few SB rings can change that. /rant off.


I understand we don't need to score 45 points to win because we have a defense built to be shutdown, but still, it wouldn't hurt to score more than 20 points a game for a change, am I right? Just because we run the ball doesn't mean we should play the TOP game every game and just try to win that way. However, it is pretty obvious that we CANNOT play the "Air it out and hope to score 45 points game", as we saw against San Diego.

Your post is so long and not organized correctly that I'm just going to stop there because I can't figure out where I am in reading your post; all I'm going to say is that Jahvid Best, if he can stay healthy is a dangerous back. Speed backs are DANGEROUS in those spread formations (LeSean McCoy, anyone?) because you spread the defense out and let your scat back just dance and weave down the field every now and then.
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I'd say he's [Dennis Pitta] the fourth best TE in the division... Cameron > Miller > Gresham > Eiffert = Pitta
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wackywabbit


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GaTechRavens wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
I think Calvin Johnson has the same effect on an offense that Randy Moss did. Lob the ball up anywhere near him and you have a huge play. Open things up for everyone else. Whenever I watch the Lions I have it in the back of my mind that Stafford will do something stupid to potentially cost them the game. And it never fails. I'll take Flacco over him 10 times out of 10.


Nonsense. Stafford is the man who makes that offense go, and I think the Lions' inability to produce a decent offense with Calvin from 2007-2010 proves that.


I disagree, Stafford isn't nearly as good as his stats make you think. He threw an absurd amount of passes, and a lot of his production was just flinging jump balls to Megatron.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
I disagree, Stafford isn't nearly as good as his stats make you think. He threw an absurd amount of passes, and a lot of his production was just flinging jump balls to Megatron.


Not really. If the Ravens aren't on I'm usually watching the Lions (I live in Michigan) and from what I've seen Stafford isn't just a product of Johnson. Sure he helps elevate the offense, just as he would on any other team, but Stafford is a really good QB in his own right. The team is loaded with offensive weapons and he can take full advantage of them.
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