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2013 College prospects thread
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germ-x


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
germ-x wrote:
As i have said all offseason, i want Denver to find a player that can be one of the best in the league at his position. I would prefer such a player along the defensive front 4, but overall i really don't care where the guy plays. If you look at Denver's roster you will notice it is severely lacking in talent, again especially defensively. I also don't care if it takes some development for a player to reach that point.

I agree with this. I wouldn't go as far as to say we're "severely lacking in talent" but we could use another difference-maker at any level of the defense.


Maybe i am being too harsh, but when i look at Denver's roster i find it littered with role players, niche players, and overachievers, especially on defense. Obviously those types of players have an important role and help make every team in the league tick.

When i look at the defense i see a single elite player and that is Von Miller. He is the lone player opposing teams really have to worry about. I can't help but think that Denver's defense would be trash without him. He commands so much attention from opposing offenses and is the guy that allows for the rest of the defense to play over their heads because of it. Getting him some legitimate help along the front 4 would be a huge pickup for this defense.
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

germ-x wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
germ-x wrote:
As i have said all offseason, i want Denver to find a player that can be one of the best in the league at his position. I would prefer such a player along the defensive front 4, but overall i really don't care where the guy plays. If you look at Denver's roster you will notice it is severely lacking in talent, again especially defensively. I also don't care if it takes some development for a player to reach that point.

I agree with this. I wouldn't go as far as to say we're "severely lacking in talent" but we could use another difference-maker at any level of the defense.


Maybe i am being too harsh, but when i look at Denver's roster i find it littered with role players, niche players, and overachievers, especially on defense. Obviously those types of players have an important role and help make every team in the league tick.

When i look at the defense i see a single elite player and that is Von Miller. He is the lone player opposing teams really have to worry about. I can't help but think that Denver's defense would be trash without him. He commands so much attention from opposing offenses and is the guy that allows for the rest of the defense to play over their heads because of it. Getting him some legitimate help along the front 4 would be a huge pickup for this defense.


I'd definitely say we're lacking in talent up the middle of our defense (DT dependent on Wolfe's role next year). I would love to put a first round draft pick towards a potentially elite player at left DE. I think that he may be our only shot at an elite acquisition this draft/offseason. But we'd have to trade up a bit to get him, and I'm not sure that happens.

I'm not really sure we find a guy with elite potential at 28. Ansah might be the closest thing to it. Depending on how he develops.
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BroncoinGermany


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
I'm beginning to fall in love with Kevin Minter. I saw tape on him recently (from a guy I work with) and he's one hell of a linebacker. I highly doubt he drops to 28, but if he does and we don't jump on it, I'd be shocked. He's going to be a very, very good player for a long time.


Same I have read about Arthur Brown who is even listed as an elite prospect by the scouting department on NFL.com, favorably comparing to NaVorro Bowman. Many scouting outlets on the internet do grade Brown very highly, regarding him on par or even better than the assumed top MLB Ogletree, so I don't see where all the negativity for Brown around here is coming from?
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AKRNA


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncoinGermany wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
I'm beginning to fall in love with Kevin Minter. I saw tape on him recently (from a guy I work with) and he's one hell of a linebacker. I highly doubt he drops to 28, but if he does and we don't jump on it, I'd be shocked. He's going to be a very, very good player for a long time.


Same I have read about Arthur Brown who is even listed as an elite prospect by the scouting department on NFL.com, favorably comparing to NaVorro Bowman. Many scouting outlets on the internet do grade Brown very highly, regarding him on par or even better than the assumed top MLB Ogletree, so I don't see where all the negativity for Brown around here is coming from?


Seems it's "size" related which isn't out of line. He is small for a MLB.
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germ-x


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't hate Minter but i think taking him in the 1st round is a reach. I don't think he is a 3 down player. While he does make plays in the running game he can get pretty reckless. The times i have watched him i always come away with him reminding me a lot of Joe Mays, not only in stature, but the way he plays the game.

Now, i like Arthur Brown and would much prefer taking Brown at #28 over Minter. Brown is a 3 down player and i have said this before, but he is actually quite good at taking on blocks. I think people just look at his size and assume that is a big weakness of his, when it really isn't.

Another player who is far more physical than his size would indicate is Oklahoma St. RB Joseph Randle. He has a lean frame, but he runs with authority and plays/runs far more physical than he is given credit for. He reminds me a lot of Demarco Murray when he was coming out, in this way.
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

germ-x wrote:
I don't hate Minter but i think taking him in the 1st round is a reach. I don't think he is a 3 down player. While he does make plays in the running game he can get pretty reckless. The times i have watched him i always come away with him reminding me a lot of Joe Mays, not only in stature, but the way he plays the game.

Now, i like Arthur Brown and would much prefer taking Brown at #28 over Minter. Brown is a 3 down player and i have said this before, but he is actually quite good at taking on blocks. I think people just look at his size and assume that is a big weakness of his, when it really isn't.

Another player who is far more physical than his size would indicate is Oklahoma St. RB Joseph Randle. He has a lean frame, but he runs with authority and plays/runs far more physical than he is given credit for. He reminds me a lot of Demarco Murray when he was coming out, in this way.


I have never noticed that about Kevin Minter whatsoever. He's good at shedding blocks, I think he's more than adequate in coverage. I don't see any Joe Mays in him. I think a guy like Jon Bostic or Nico are more Joe Mays-esque.
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BroncoinGermany


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
BroncoinGermany wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
I'm beginning to fall in love with Kevin Minter. I saw tape on him recently (from a guy I work with) and he's one hell of a linebacker. I highly doubt he drops to 28, but if he does and we don't jump on it, I'd be shocked. He's going to be a very, very good player for a long time.


Same I have read about Arthur Brown who is even listed as an elite prospect by the scouting department on NFL.com, favorably comparing to NaVorro Bowman. Many scouting outlets on the internet do grade Brown very highly, regarding him on par or even better than the assumed top MLB Ogletree, so I don't see where all the negativity for Brown around here is coming from?


Seems it's "size" related which isn't out of line. He is small for a MLB.


At 6'1" in and 228 lbs, Brown is comparable to other currently or formerly good MLB like London Fletcher (5'10", 238 Ibs), Jonathan Vilma (6'1", 230 Ibs) and Jon Beason (6'0", 237 Ibs). Last year, Bobby Wagner slid because of his supposed lack of bulk, but he also is similar to Brown regarding measurements- 6'0" and 241 Ibs. The list of failures due to a lack of size at that position is of course longer, but if a prospect such as Brown shows that he can make up for it with technique and vision, I see no problem in his size. Although Ogletree is taller, he weighs just about as much as Brown. And does not use his hands as well as Brown.
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JerseysFinest27


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

germ-x wrote:
I don't hate Minter but i think taking him in the 1st round is a reach. I don't think he is a 3 down player. While he does make plays in the running game he can get pretty reckless. The times i have watched him i always come away with him reminding me a lot of Joe Mays, not only in stature, but the way he plays the game.

Now, i like Arthur Brown and would much prefer taking Brown at #28 over Minter. Brown is a 3 down player and i have said this before, but he is actually quite good at taking on blocks. I think people just look at his size and assume that is a big weakness of his, when it really isn't.

Another player who is far more physical than his size would indicate is Oklahoma St. RB Joseph Randle. He has a lean frame, but he runs with authority and plays/runs far more physical than he is given credit for. He reminds me a lot of Demarco Murray when he was coming out, in this way.

Ive been saying the same thing about Minter the entire CFB season. I dont see a 1st round MLB in him, nor do I see a 3-down MLB in him. Reason why I wouldnt take him in the first. I just dont see him being a centerpiece in the NFL.

I also disagree with your Arthur Brown comments. My feeling is that his skills better suit him on the weakside, not in the middle.

Overall, I think this is a very underwhelming MLB class, outside of Te'o. Many of you dont even think Te'o is a 1st rounder and those reasons are fair. You can really pick every MLB in this class apart. None of them are game-changers and none of them are "Luke Keuchleys". I will say that the one with the least amount of weaknesses is Manti Te'o. Just my opinion though.
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AnAngryAmerican


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

germ-x wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
germ-x wrote:
As i have said all offseason, i want Denver to find a player that can be one of the best in the league at his position. I would prefer such a player along the defensive front 4, but overall i really don't care where the guy plays. If you look at Denver's roster you will notice it is severely lacking in talent, again especially defensively. I also don't care if it takes some development for a player to reach that point.

I agree with this. I wouldn't go as far as to say we're "severely lacking in talent" but we could use another difference-maker at any level of the defense.


Maybe i am being too harsh, but when i look at Denver's roster i find it littered with role players, niche players, and overachievers, especially on defense. Obviously those types of players have an important role and help make every team in the league tick.

When i look at the defense i see a single elite player and that is Von Miller. He is the lone player opposing teams really have to worry about. I can't help but think that Denver's defense would be trash without him. He commands so much attention from opposing offenses and is the guy that allows for the rest of the defense to play over their heads because of it. Getting him some legitimate help along the front 4 would be a huge pickup for this defense.

I agree and it's one reason why I've become such a huge proponent of trading for Revis. There's no player we can draft or no free agent we can sign that will make anywhere near as big of an impact on the defense as he can.

Looking at the last few years it's no surprise our only elite defensive player is Von. Elway took over a team with very little talent and next to no depth. We had 2 elite players on the roster in January 2011 (Champ and Clady) and 2 years later Champ is "very good" but no longer elite. DT has become a borderline elite WR and we signed Peyton, an elite player if there ever was one, Clady remains elite and Von is the best OLB in the NFL.

Because of Elway's job changing the culture of the franchise, hiring a top-tier coaching staff and getting some good luck (Marion Barber running out of bounds, the Dolphins playing prevent, - LeBeau putting 11 players within 5 yards of the LOS on the first play in OT) we over-performed in 2011 and missed an opportunity to add another difference-maker in the draft. Instead of drafting in the 8-15 range where our talent level should have put us, we stuck back at 25. Had our record reflected our talent level we would have been 6-10 or 7-9 and picking #8 and #12 and thus someone like Luke Kuechly, Stephon Gilmore, Fletcher Cox, Michael Brockers, Doug Martin, Chandler Jones or David DeCastro would be Bronco right now.

I like both Brown and Minter but at the same time both worry me. Brown because of his size (a 228lb MLB reminds me of the Nate Webster days) and Minter because I don't think he has the raw athleticism to be a true 3-down MIKE (but he's not Joe Mays, let's not go that far).

I think if we keep #28 I don't see us getting an elite player. I think we get another good player, another solid contributor and long-term starter a la Derek Wolfe. But I don't see us getting another Von Miller. Sure it's possible we find a sleeper and coach him up into an elite player but it's by no means a sure thing. That's why I say we make #28 the centerpiece of a trade for Revis.
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BroncoinGermany


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On another note, a prospect like Andre Ellington makes me miss the Alex Gibbs days here in Denver. A tad slower than Chris Johnson but with a bit more strength, Ellington would thrive in a one cut and go running scheme. If the Texans were smart, they'd select him in the middle rounds as a replacement for Ben Tate.
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JerseysFinest27


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncoinGermany wrote:
On another note, a prospect like Andre Ellington makes me miss the Alex Gibbs days here in Denver. A tad slower than Chris Johnson but with a bit more strength, Ellington would thrive in a one cut and go running scheme. If the Texans were smart, they'd select him in the middle rounds as a replacement for Ben Tate.

I love me some Andre Ellington. Had him mocked in my first mock of the offseason. Hes going to make a team very happy for whoever selects him.
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germ-x


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:

I think if we keep #28 I don't see us getting an elite player. I think we get another good player, another solid contributor and long-term starter a la Derek Wolfe. But I don't see us getting another Von Miller. Sure it's possible we find a sleeper and coach him up into an elite player...


I agree with this. I'm sure it seems of late i sound like the only picks Denver should be making is for elite players. While of course that would be great, i fully recognize that doesn't happen in every draft. If Denver stays at #28 and takes a good player that will be a long time Bronco i have no problems with that. However, i hope if opportunities arise to get exceptional talent those players are taken.
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AKRNA


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

germ-x wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:

I think if we keep #28 I don't see us getting an elite player. I think we get another good player, another solid contributor and long-term starter a la Derek Wolfe. But I don't see us getting another Von Miller. Sure it's possible we find a sleeper and coach him up into an elite player...


I agree with this. I'm sure it seems of late i sound like the only picks Denver should be making is for elite players. While of course that would be great, i fully recognize that doesn't happen in every draft. If Denver stays at #28 and takes a good player that will be a long time Bronco i have no problems with that. However, i hope if opportunities arise to get exceptional talent those players are taken.


Great philosophy germ-x but one shared by just a few here. Personally, I'm not in the "short window, now or never camp". I like what seems to be the attitude of "build through the draft" and have a competitive franchise every year.

Sorry bud but we're in the minority here.
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I understand the desire to have many "elite" level players on a defense, how many teams out there ACTUALLY have these players on their defenses? The Niners are one. But who else? An argument can be made that Seattle is getting there. That's two. Baltimore certainly doesn't. It's much more important to have a bunch of talented players who play together well, IMO, as opposed to a few lesser players and two elite guys.

On our defense Miller and Champ Bailey are still elite. I think Chris Harris is better than Champ Bailey, FWIW. Elvis Dumervil is average but he serves a purpose (I think?), Woodyard has shown himself to be above-average this year, Rahim Moore was a good player sans one bonehead play, and Derek Wolfe looked pretty good for a rookie who quite a few people around here disliked.

Offensively, we have PFM (no brainer elite status), Thomas who is bordering this elite category, Clady, hell I'd throw Beadles into the above average category now after his play has increased, and Decker is decent talent. If anything, we need another player like we've been seeing on the defensive side, and more offensive talent.
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jsthomp2007


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Korey Jones? Interesting prospect, I think.

http://predominantlyorange.com/2013/02/12/2013-nfl-combine-save-the-horse-sign-korey-jones/
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