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2013 College prospects thread
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BroncoinGermany


Joined: 09 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
There is absolutely no way we will give up that much for Te'o. I know people love the guy, but it just isn't in the cards, IMO. Trading multiple first rounders just isn't worth it. CJ Mosely/Alec Ogletree and we get to keep future firsts sounds a bit better to me.


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broncos67


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me also note that using the Julio Jones trade for comparison is extremely shortsighted. The Falcons gave up probably a bit les than they would have to now because of the contract. Now, with cheaper contracts/less risk because of them at the top of the draft, teams need to give up a lot more.
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BroncoinGermany


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
Let me also note that using the Julio Jones trade for comparison is extremely shortsighted. The Falcons gave up probably a bit les than they would have to now because of the contract. Now, with cheaper contracts/less risk because of them at the top of the draft, teams need to give up a lot more.


The more cap friendly rookie contracts were already established in 2011, I believe. Even if not, the Falcons Julio trade up serves a relatively good comparison to a potential Broncos Te'o trade up given the similar slot we would probably need to trade up from.
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JerseysFinest27


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncospride95 wrote:
JerseysFinest27 wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
Well, I finally got enough film on Te’o to make a personal assessment. (at a download rate of 2mb per minute it took a week of overnight downloads).

I agree with jonnyj20. This kid is the real deal and a better “pure MLB prospect” than I’ve seen in decades. He’s a throwback to the 60’s/early 70’s when guys like Butkus, Nobis, Nitschke, Bill Bergey, Willie Lanier, Mike Curtis, et al. roamed the middle.

Love the way he plugs a hole, standing up a guard or center and forcing the action, absolutely disrupting the play. Much more fluid in pass pro than I thought and incredibly instinctive. Without a doubt, the best I’ve seen in ages.

A very very rare combination of size , speed and agility. Add to that his character, intensity and leadership and this guy will be a perennial pro bowler in the middle.

Can we get him? Probably. A package of this years 1st, next years 1st and DJ should get us into the 5-7 (where I think he’ll go) spot. Is he worth it? IMO without a doubt.

While I 100% agree with your assessment, are people finally going to agree with me when I say hes a sure-fire top-10 pick? Seriously, hop on board.

How do you think he'll test out at the combine? I see that being key if he'll go in the top 10 or not. If he tests well, I think he'll be a top 10 pick forsure. However, if he doesn't test out so well like I think he will, I think he'll go in the late teens.

Ive been a huge fan of the player since last year but this year Ive become a bigger fan of the man he is. With all the things hes had to handle, plus with the way he handled them, shows the true character the kid has.

Now in terms of "testing", I think he'll be very good. Hes a very fine athlete. He may not be the fastest LBer in the draft, Im expecting around a 4.6, but everything else he should test out fine. Hes got the short quickness (shuttles) and the strength (bench) to test near the top in everything. IMO the combine will only further his draft status as a top-10 pick.
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AntiSuperstar


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giving up multiple picks for a pure Linebacker? Lol. It takes a real sucker to do that.
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AKRNA


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
Giving up multiple picks for a pure Linebacker? Lol. It takes a real sucker to do that.


Interesting, care to elaborate?
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
AntiSuperstar wrote:
Giving up multiple picks for a pure Linebacker? Lol. It takes a real sucker to do that.


Interesting, care to elaborate?


It isn't worth trading the farm for a linebacker. It just isn't feasible and this team has other needs.
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jsthomp2007


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
AntiSuperstar wrote:
Giving up multiple picks for a pure Linebacker? Lol. It takes a real sucker to do that.


Interesting, care to elaborate?


It isn't worth trading the farm for a linebacker. It just isn't feasible and this team has other needs.


Great elaboration... Confused

How is not feasible. Anything in the draft is feasible.
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Russell2Bailey


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jsthomp2007 wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
AntiSuperstar wrote:
Giving up multiple picks for a pure Linebacker? Lol. It takes a real sucker to do that.


Interesting, care to elaborate?


It isn't worth trading the farm for a linebacker. It just isn't feasible and this team has other needs.


Great elaboration... Confused

How is not feasible. Anything in the draft is feasible.


In most peoples' opinions, MLB doesn't have enough positional value or make a big enough impact to be worth trading a lot for and selecting high.
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AKRNA


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Russell2Bailey wrote:
jsthomp2007 wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
AntiSuperstar wrote:
Giving up multiple picks for a pure Linebacker? Lol. It takes a real sucker to do that.


Interesting, care to elaborate?


It isn't worth trading the farm for a linebacker. It just isn't feasible and this team has other needs.


Great elaboration... Confused

How is not feasible. Anything in the draft is feasible.


In most peoples' opinions, MLB doesn't have enough positional value or make a big enough impact to be worth trading a lot for and selecting high.


Sorry R2B but the generalities here are somewhat ludicrous. Kinda like painting trim with a 20' wide brush. So far this discussion ranks up there with "this team sucks" and Hillmans a bust".

I'll just consider it over.
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
Russell2Bailey wrote:
jsthomp2007 wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
AntiSuperstar wrote:
Giving up multiple picks for a pure Linebacker? Lol. It takes a real sucker to do that.


Interesting, care to elaborate?


It isn't worth trading the farm for a linebacker. It just isn't feasible and this team has other needs.


Great elaboration... Confused

How is not feasible. Anything in the draft is feasible.


In most peoples' opinions, MLB doesn't have enough positional value or make a big enough impact to be worth trading a lot for and selecting high.


Sorry R2B but the generalities here are somewhat ludicrous. Kinda like painting trim with a 20' wide brush. So far this discussion ranks up there with "this team sucks" and Hillmans a bust".

I'll just consider it over.


I don't see how it's ludicrous to be against trading multiple first round picks and other valuable picks to draft a middle linebacker in the Top 10. This is definitely not an issue everyone will/should agree on. It's obvious Elway values draft picks and has stated that the team will be built through the draft. There will be a life after Manning, and we can't afford to just throw away picks right now.

As good as Te'o is, I firmly believe that we can get good value in Ogletree or Mosely at the bottom of Round 1, and keep future picks.

Say Denver makes it to AFCCG (hypothetical), and we're picking 29th or 30th....there's no way we would have appropriate ammo to move up to 7. It would take a massive deal, at least two firsts and probably two seconds. You don't trade picks like that for a linebacker. Period.

Hell, we could get Shayne Skov in the second round and be so much better off using our first rounder on someone impactful at DT or WR.
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germ-x


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with those who wouldn't give up a bunch of picks for Teo. He is a hell of a player, but i wouldn't want to trade a ton to get him.

IMO, LB is like the RB of the defense. Unless it is hands down the BPA in the 1st round i see no reason in selecting one, especially in Denver's defense which is constantly using different personnel in different formations.

I am interested in seeing if Irving continues getting more playing time. Personally, i don't see ILB as a huge need. When Williams gets back Denver will have a 3 down LB and Woodyard will start coming in to replace the other LB and provide coverage.
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

germ-x wrote:
I agree with those who wouldn't give up a bunch of picks for Teo. He is a hell of a player, but i wouldn't want to trade a ton to get him.

IMO, LB is like the RB of the defense. Unless it is hands down the BPA in the 1st round i see no reason in selecting one, especially in Denver's defense which is constantly using different personnel in different formations.

I am interested in seeing if Irving continues getting more playing time. Personally, i don't see ILB as a huge need. When Williams gets back Denver will have a 3 down LB and Woodyard will start coming in to replace the other LB and provide coverage.


There is no way DJ starts over Woodyard. Vic Lombardi said today that he heard rumblings that DJ may not even be kept after suspension.

I would rather get Skov and another impact player than Te'o
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germ-x


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
germ-x wrote:
I agree with those who wouldn't give up a bunch of picks for Teo. He is a hell of a player, but i wouldn't want to trade a ton to get him.

IMO, LB is like the RB of the defense. Unless it is hands down the BPA in the 1st round i see no reason in selecting one, especially in Denver's defense which is constantly using different personnel in different formations.

I am interested in seeing if Irving continues getting more playing time. Personally, i don't see ILB as a huge need. When Williams gets back Denver will have a 3 down LB and Woodyard will start coming in to replace the other LB and provide coverage.


There is no way DJ starts over Woodyard. Vic Lombardi said today that he heard rumblings that DJ may not even be kept after suspension.

I would rather get Skov and another impact player than Te'o


Off the field issue's aside, DJ Williams is a better football player than Woodyard. He may not be quite as good in coverage, but he is still good in the area while also being superior to Woodyard vs the run. Unlike Woodyard, DJ Williams isn't a liability in any situation or vs any particular team.

Now, if he is let go after the suspension i would have no problem with that. He is a fool and i have been calling for his release for awhile. If that happens Denver will need a 3 down LB, IMO. Even then though it isn't worth selling the farm.

As for Skov, i like him, but don't think he is the 3 down player Denver would need if Williams is gone. He wouldn't be a bad mid round pick to compete at ILB though.
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AKRNA


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

germ-x wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
germ-x wrote:
I agree with those who wouldn't give up a bunch of picks for Teo. He is a hell of a player, but i wouldn't want to trade a ton to get him.

IMO, LB is like the RB of the defense. Unless it is hands down the BPA in the 1st round i see no reason in selecting one, especially in Denver's defense which is constantly using different personnel in different formations.

I am interested in seeing if Irving continues getting more playing time. Personally, i don't see ILB as a huge need. When Williams gets back Denver will have a 3 down LB and Woodyard will start coming in to replace the other LB and provide coverage.


There is no way DJ starts over Woodyard. Vic Lombardi said today that he heard rumblings that DJ may not even be kept after suspension.

I would rather get Skov and another impact player than Te'o


Off the field issue's aside, DJ Williams is a better football player than Woodyard. He may not be quite as good in coverage, but he is still good in the area while also being superior to Woodyard vs the run. Unlike Woodyard, DJ Williams isn't a liability in any situation or vs any particular team.

Now, if he is let go after the suspension i would have no problem with that. He is a fool and i have been calling for his release for awhile. If that happens Denver will need a 3 down LB, IMO. Even then though it isn't worth selling the farm.

As for Skov, i like him, but don't think he is the 3 down player Denver would need if Williams is gone. He wouldn't be a bad mid round pick to compete at ILB though.


The 'selling the farm" is a straw man argument. What was mentioned and is quite plausable is a move from around 25 to around 7. Based on a draft value chart, giving up next years 1st (probably very low, hopefully #32) and DJ would probably move us up this year to grab Te'o.

Is giving up one future draft pick and a player like DJ selling the farm?Thats not much of a farm. Laughing Laughing

By the way, I absolutely hate "straw man" arguments. They should be reserved for Presidents, Senators, Congressmen, basically all elected officials and any other professional liars.
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