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Terranimal


Joined: 31 Oct 2011
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Location: Wisconsin
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blankman0021 wrote:
KManX89 wrote:
JCamGOPACKGO wrote:
I know you said it is wishful thinking, but I don't think ILB is a need for us right now at all. Hawk is having a great year..Bishop is a more than capable starter (to say the least) and a great physical presence on our D...and Smith and Jones have both proven to be solid depth players.

I'd much rather dream about a top OT or DL guy falling into our lap. But that's just me.


I know, but Hawk is one of those guys I could see us letting go to clear up some cap room for Rodgers, Raji, Matthews, Jennings, etc. since we'll no longer be subject to his cap hit if we release him in the offseason. Yes, he's been valuable for us ever since Bishop and Smith got hurt, but we can't keep everybody. If so, and if (I know, it's not gonna happen, barring some divine, out-of-this-world miracle, but I can always speculate or play the "What If" game) Te'o fell in our lap, he would be the perfect replacement, and would certainly fit TT's BPA philosophy over whoever was likely left to take in the 1st round. Everyone knows we could use some LBers who are good in coverage, he excels at it (hell, he excels at everything). Then again, I also theorized letting Finley go to clear cap room (again, as much as I'd like to get a draft pick or two for him, IDK if anyone would actually want to give up picks for a proven headcase with a knack for dropped passes, the best we could probably hope for is a 2014 compensatory pick for whoever signs him in free agency after releasing him), and draft Eifert in the first to replace him.

OTOH, I could also see TT taking a S with the 1st pick (Eric Reid could possibly fall into our lap since he's having somewhat of a down year) or trading down to get more picks. OLine is a possibility, too, but then again, we did just use a 1st round pick on OL in 2011 (we also have Datko, a projected 1st-2nd rounder before the injury woes, developing on the PS), so I dunno. As for D-Line, the only one worth a 1st round grade who could maybe end up falling to us is Kawann Short (as much as I would cream myself if Hankins fell to us, much like with Te'o, I know better than to think it might realistically happen), and we already have Raji, Worthy, Daniels and a (finally) healthy Neal, so it's not a huge need for us (maybe for depth at NT behind Raji should he suffer any more ankle problems, because like I said, Pickett isn't going to stick around forever).

All in all, it's tough to say where we'll go in the 1st.


The only way teams are awarded compensatory picks is if they leave after a contract is over. If the team releases the player, they are not compensated for him. Just thought I'd clear that up. Looks like you're new here (4 posts).


Speaking of comp picks, a guy who is darn near 100% at getting them correct, see the Pack getting a 4th and a 7th rd comp picks next April for Flynn and Wells respectively.....
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Terranimal


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curious what people here think about ND's RB Cierre Wood? It seems he's going pro after this season and early forecasts have him as a late second day possible.
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MNPackfan32


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terranimal wrote:
Curious what people here think about ND's RB Cierre Wood? It seems he's going pro after this season and early forecasts have him as a late second day possible.
I really like him as a runner. It's going to depend on how the off the field stuff checks out.
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pollino14


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terranimal wrote:
Curious what people here think about ND's RB Cierre Wood? It seems he's going pro after this season and early forecasts have him as a late second day possible.


Cierre can play thats for sure. I don't see him being a "every down back" but I can def see him contributing.
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ThinkICare


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:


IMO, Cooper has a shot at being elite. Also one nasty SOB! Kids skill a bit raw and not the sure thing a prospect like Jones is. But if I'm taking a first round center in this draft class, it's Cooper. Now I would be the first to tell you there is value in "safe". But the new CBA has changed some of that, and again, if I'm taking a first round center he better be special of there are value issuse with the pick. Think prime years Brown with Balt when thinking Cooper. Do you want that guy or Max Unger?

Don't take that the wrong way. I like Jones a lot! He brings more tackle value to get you out of a game there. But IMO, I feel Cooper is every bit the guard prospect and could be elite in time at center. I also feel Cooper brings a mindset this team needs up front.

As for the RB. I agree, that's not a first round prospect right there if ya ask me. Much to like about that young man. But that's not a special talent at the end of the day. I would rather see a Taylor or Michael later on. Just better board value IMO.

Again, don't take that the wrong way. I like Bernard! Just think he will go before I would take him, that's all. If he meets value marks, I'm in!


Always good to hear your POV on these things. Think it'd be nice to change the attitude of our O-line, if not just a little bit. Hopefully one of the main channels shows more Tar Heels games. From what I saw of the Bernard video compilations, Cooper looked great at pulling. Have to see more of him.
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KManX89


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spilltray wrote:
KManX89 wrote:
JCamGOPACKGO wrote:
I know you said it is wishful thinking, but I don't think ILB is a need for us right now at all. Hawk is having a great year..Bishop is a more than capable starter (to say the least) and a great physical presence on our D...and Smith and Jones have both proven to be solid depth players.

I'd much rather dream about a top OT or DL guy falling into our lap. But that's just me.


I know, but Hawk is one of those guys I could see us letting go to clear up some cap room for Rodgers, Raji, Matthews, Jennings, etc. since we'll no longer be subject to his cap hit if we release him in the offseason. Yes, he's been valuable for us ever since Bishop and Smith got hurt, but we can't keep everybody. If so, and if (I know, it's not gonna happen, barring some divine, out-of-this-world miracle, but I can always speculate or play the "What If" game) Te'o fell in our lap, he would be the perfect replacement, and would certainly fit TT's BPA philosophy over whoever was likely left to take in the 1st round. Everyone knows we could use some LBers who are good in coverage, he excels at it (hell, he excels at everything). Then again, I also theorized letting Finley go to clear cap room (again, as much as I'd like to get a draft pick or two for him, IDK if anyone would actually want to give up picks for a proven headcase with a knack for dropped passes, the best we could probably hope for is a 2014 compensatory pick for whoever signs him in free agency after releasing him), and draft Eifert in the first to replace him.

OTOH, I could also see TT taking a S with the 1st pick (Eric Reid could possibly fall into our lap since he's having somewhat of a down year) or trading down to get more picks. OLine is a possibility, too, but then again, we did just use a 1st round pick on OL in 2011 (we also have Datko, a projected 1st-2nd rounder before the injury woes, developing on the PS), so I dunno. As for D-Line, the only one worth a 1st round grade who could maybe end up falling to us is Kawann Short (as much as I would cream myself if Hankins fell to us, much like with Te'o, I know better than to think it might realistically happen), and we already have Raji, Worthy, Daniels and a (finally) healthy Neal, so it's not a huge need for us (maybe for depth at NT behind Raji should he suffer any more ankle problems, because like I said, Pickett isn't going to stick around forever).

All in all, it's tough to say where we'll go in the 1st.


First off there would still be a cap hit. It would be close to his salary so the salary vs the cap hit would work out to 0 but you still have to pay his roster replacement as well. It just doesn't make any sense to cut Hawk. I guarantee you the coaches and front office think much more of him than most Packer fans.

The only reason he would fall that far is if he is wearing cement boots at the combine and the opinion is he can only be a 2 down LB. If that's the case, I don't draft him in the first either. Lots of LBs look like they excel at everything in college but end up being mediocre pros as well. I personally don't think T'eo is NEAR the prospect Hawk was coming out, and look how that turned out.

I think Palmy is on. TT will likely take the best prospect at what he views as a "premium position". That means ignore ILB, S, Interior OL, RB. Look for edge guys, either pass protectors or pass rushers, guys who can catch or guys who can cover those who do.


To be clear, I said we could end up letting Hawk room to clear up cap space if need be, not that we will or should. Between letting Hawk or Jennings go, at this rate I'd say we're more likely to let Jennings walk, since our O has been high-flying without him (Rodgers threw for 6, count that, *6* TD passes against the #1 defense in their own house without Jennings) since Hawk's stepped up so much for us since Desmond Bishop got hurt. We did also draft an ILB in the 5th round in Terrell Manning, who, while pretty silent for us thus far, has good potential and is a work in progress. TT will continue to slowly work him in and give him reps (during practice, offseason workouts, whathaveyou) for at least a few more years to see if he steps up his game before completely giving up on him.

As for taking a pass rusher, we don't necessarily need another OLB, though Alex Okafor (who would play OLB in our 3-4) can also play inside linebacker, so maybe we could take him just to add some versatility to our schemes (I could see us running some 5 linebacker sets like - LeBeau sometimes uses in PIT with Perry, Hawk, Bishop, Okafor and Matthews), if he's available. Otherwise, I see no need or use for another edge rusher (Walden and Mozes have given us nice depth behind Perry, who will be back next year, and Matthews). I'd say OL is our most likely destination in the 1st round.
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spilltray


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KManX89 wrote:

To be clear, I said we could end up letting Hawk room to clear up cap space if need be, not that we will or should. Between letting Hawk or Jennings go, at this rate I'd say we're more likely to let Jennings walk, since our O has been high-flying without him (Rodgers threw for 6, count that, *6* TD passes against the #1 defense in their own house without Jennings) since Hawk's stepped up so much for us since Desmond Bishop got hurt. We did also draft an ILB in the 5th round in Terrell Manning, who, while pretty silent for us thus far, has good potential and is a work in progress. TT will continue to slowly work him in and give him reps (during practice, offseason workouts, whathaveyou) for at least a few more years to see if he steps up his game before completely giving up on him.

As for taking a pass rusher, we don't necessarily need another OLB, though Alex Okafor (who would play OLB in our 3-4) can also play inside linebacker, so maybe we could take him just to add some versatility to our schemes (I could see us running some 5 linebacker sets like - LeBeau sometimes uses in PIT with Perry, Hawk, Bishop, Okafor and Matthews), if he's available. Otherwise, I see no need or use for another edge rusher (Walden and Mozes have given us nice depth behind Perry, who will be back next year, and Matthews). I'd say OL is our most likely destination in the 1st round.


Except cutting Hawk wouldn't save any cap space next year was my point. He is also a guy fans are regularly hoping to get rid of, but coaches and the front office have faith in him and generally are OK with the job he's doing.

Maybe not an OLB, but an interior rusher would easily be an option. Similar to Worthy.

I wouldn't rule out any of the high value roles. WR/TE/CB/OL/DL/CB are all solid possibilities. I don't think there is any sort of clear lean to OL. Going in to next year, we should have this OL available:

LT: Newhouse, Sherrod
LG: Lang
C: Saturday, Evan Deitrich Smith
RG: Sitton
RT: Bulaga

That's a pretty damn fine 7 OL. Depth at some point? Sure. Hard lean early for need? Not at all.
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palmy50


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terranimal wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
ThinkICare wrote:
palmy50 wrote:

Guy like that could change some things in Green Bay though. Makes moving Bulaga and keeping Lang at RT possible also. I mean, what looks better to you Newhouse-Sherrod/Lang/Jones/Sitton/Bulaga OR Bulaga/Jones/EDS/Sitton/Lang?


I don't grade him out there because I feel his best pro fit comes at center. If your pulling the same grades as I am on him and view him as a guard, good chance you have very little issue with him day1.

As far as him making the Packers look better on paper. Sure he would, kids a good football player. Fact is, if Sherrod comes to play next camp it could do the same thing. Know what I mean? Hell, if Sherrod's a player I like that first group a good bit more.


Quote:
I hear ya. Be nice to see what Sherrod can bring to this group as it could need some sprucin' up. What's your take on Cooper being a 1st round choice for this team? You said he might have the best potential at C out of all the prospects. Just not entirely sure whether he's 1st round material.

As for the mentioning of Giovani Bernard. I don't see anything real special about him tbh. He had that great Punt return to seal the game, but I just wasn't feeling him being a 1st round choice type RB if he were to come out.


IMO, Cooper has a shot at being elite. Also one nasty SOB! Kids skill a bit raw and not the sure thing a prospect like Jones is. But if I'm taking a first round center in this draft class, it's Cooper. Now I would be the first to tell you there is value in "safe". But the new CBA has changed some of that, and again, if I'm taking a first round center he better be special of there are value issuse with the pick. Think prime years Brown with Balt when thinking Cooper. Do you want that guy or Max Unger?

Don't take that the wrong way. I like Jones a lot! He brings more tackle value to get you out of a game there. But IMO, I feel Cooper is every bit the guard prospect and could be elite in time at center. I also feel Cooper brings a mindset this team needs up front.

As for the RB. I agree, that's not a first round prospect right there if ya ask me. Much to like about that young man. But that's not a special talent at the end of the day. I would rather see a Taylor or Michael later on. Just better board value IMO.

Again, don't take that the wrong way. I like Bernard! Just think he will go before I would take him, that's all. If he meets value marks, I'm in![/quote]

Just a curious question- Unless the info have gathered is wrong, Cooper has only played one game at Center. How can anyone think he'll be a great Center based off of one game? I hear everyone on the Guard aspect though for him.[/quote]

Not real sure what you mean? The battle is always trying to figure out how ones game translates to the pro game. Often times that comes at a different position than played at the college level.

Was just saying that Cooper has the tools needed to be a special pro center. Clearly there is work to be done in getting him there. I would also be the first to tell you there is risk in that. Many might rather have a guy like Jones because of how safe he is. LIS though, if I'm going that high at center the kid better have a shot at being elite. I just don't feel Jones is that guy and that would make him a value push for me day one. I would like Jones a good bit more if we did not have our long term guards on both sides of him.

I can clearly see that thing both ways though. Not like I would cry about a talent like Jones landing on the team.
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MNPackfan32


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Palmy what do you think of the WR's in this class? I see some people that are really high on Woods, some are really high on Hunter, I saw one guy have Woods as the #6 WR, most people are real high on Allen from Cal. I like Woods and I like him even more in this offense, I see a little Steve Smith in him.
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MNPackfan32 wrote:
Josh Sitton, Mike Daniels

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Terranimal


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a curious question- Unless the info have gathered is wrong, Cooper has only played one game at Center. How can anyone think he'll be a great Center based off of one game? I hear everyone on the Guard aspect though for him.[/quote]

Not real sure what you mean? The battle is always trying to figure out how ones game translates to the pro game. Often times that comes at a different position than played at the college level.

Was just saying that Cooper has the tools needed to be a special pro center. Clearly there is work to be done in getting him there. I would also be the first to tell you there is risk in that. Many might rather have a guy like Jones because of how safe he is. LIS though, if I'm going that high at center the kid better have a shot at being elite. I just don't feel Jones is that guy and that would make him a value push for me day one. I would like Jones a good bit more if we did not have our long term guards on both sides of him.

I can clearly see that thing both ways though. Not like I would cry about a talent like Jones landing on the team.[/quote]

Thanks Palmy for clearing things up. Of course understand projecting and all that goes with that from the college level to the pro level. But somehow didn't see anywhere here where it said "projecting" through-out this thread.

The premise of my question came from everywhere lately people are talking about Cooper as a great Center when I only could find him playing Center one game and thought, maybe somehow had missed where he had played a bunch of games at Center.

btw- Did you see the comments posted on Aaron Rodgers speaking on EDS as the future long term Center a couple of pages back?
(page 44)
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justo


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNPackfan32 wrote:
Palmy what do you think of the WR's in this class? I see some people that are really high on Woods, some are really high on Hunter, I saw one guy have Woods as the #6 WR, most people are real high on Allen from Cal. I like Woods and I like him even more in this offense, I see a little Steve Smith in him.

Allen is so good all round though. I would love him in our offense. Green Bay never really has that #1 that makes you go "crap we better lock down Calvin Johnson/Larry Fitz or we are done", but their 2-4/5 just out talent secondaries and they are versatile. Allen totally fits in the GB mold unless I'm totally off. No way he lasts till our pick though.
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palmy50


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNPackfan32 wrote:
Palmy what do you think of the WR's in this class? I see some people that are really high on Woods, some are really high on Hunter, I saw one guy have Woods as the #6 WR, most people are real high on Allen from Cal. I like Woods and I like him even more in this offense, I see a little Steve Smith in him.


Could be a very sound class pending what kids come out early.

Allen can excel in any fit and could top the board come draft day because of it, pending workouts. Guys like Hunter and Woods need the right home for the elite grades. But there are more than enough teams out there that run their look. There should be a few vert-O teams that hold very high marks for Hunter, though he might have the most flaws of the high board WR's in Green Bay.

If I was going to hand pick one for the Green Bay Packers, it's Woods. Don't be scared off by some of the past fails of that like out of USC. Woods is the real deal and has been since day1.
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palmy50


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terranimal wrote:
Just a curious question- Unless the info have gathered is wrong, Cooper has only played one game at Center. How can anyone think he'll be a great Center based off of one game? I hear everyone on the Guard aspect though for him.


Not real sure what you mean? The battle is always trying to figure out how ones game translates to the pro game. Often times that comes at a different position than played at the college level.

Was just saying that Cooper has the tools needed to be a special pro center. Clearly there is work to be done in getting him there. I would also be the first to tell you there is risk in that. Many might rather have a guy like Jones because of how safe he is. LIS though, if I'm going that high at center the kid better have a shot at being elite. I just don't feel Jones is that guy and that would make him a value push for me day one. I would like Jones a good bit more if we did not have our long term guards on both sides of him.

I can clearly see that thing both ways though. Not like I would cry about a talent like Jones landing on the team.[/quote]

Thanks Palmy for clearing things up. Of course understand projecting and all that goes with that from the college level to the pro level. But somehow didn't see anywhere here where it said "projecting" through-out this thread.

The premise of my question came from everywhere lately people are talking about Cooper as a great Center when I only could find him playing Center one game and thought, maybe somehow had missed where he had played a bunch of games at Center.

btw- Did you see the comments posted on Aaron Rodgers speaking on EDS as the future long term Center a couple of pages back?
(page 44)[/quote]

I did, and I also have no issue with EDS getting his long look should the lead brass feel that's the way to go. That's also a big reason why I don't want to see TT draft less than elite on the high board at the interior line position. I mean, what are the odds of "that guy" beating out Lang, EDS, or Sitton in a fair fight. If they did so it would be more because of draft position and that's not a game I'm willing to play!
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Terranimal


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

here's a little more a poster friend of mine put up on another board.....

Q: James, North Prairie, WI - Hey Tom do you agree with Aaron Rodgers than EDS is the Packers center of the future? Is he talented enough to be an effective full-time starter?
A: Tom Silverstein - I think he's got a chance. I really like Greg Van Roten and wouldn't be surprised if he wound up there some day. He needs to get in the weight room, but he's a tough kid with a nasty disposition. I wouldn't count him out.
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palmy50


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terranimal wrote:
here's a little more a poster friend of mine put up on another board.....

Q: James, North Prairie, WI - Hey Tom do you agree with Aaron Rodgers than EDS is the Packers center of the future? Is he talented enough to be an effective full-time starter?
A: Tom Silverstein - I think he's got a chance. I really like Greg Van Roten and wouldn't be surprised if he wound up there some day. He needs to get in the weight room, but he's a tough kid with a nasty disposition. I wouldn't count him out.


Would not fight anyone on any of that. One that gets be thinking though. I mean, both can fill about the same way but how they get there is much different. What I mean by that is that EDS would bring a much different game/set to the center position then we have seen under Mac. GVR is much closer is terms of style as far as what we have seen here at center. GVR lives is dies with his quicks and balance. That's not EDS though. He would be more of a power play at center but would have a very tough time with some of the blocks asked in the system as is.

Good chance that's how this thing plays out though pending how the board falls come draft day. EDS should get his look unless he falls flat on his face the rest of this season, and GVR should be the interior swing much in the same way EDS has been the past few years here.

Like both though. Took a long look at GVR out of college and EDS has done nothing but earn my respect from day one in Green Bay. Had a very close grade on both out of college. Will be fun to watch this thing play out over time.
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