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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kellerman wrote:
VikeSince70 wrote:
I do agree that those 2 interceptions in the red zone by Ponder were rediculious to say the least. I will also point out that Ponder has no confidence in his wideouts. The announcer of the game also said that his receivers were not getting any seperation all game long. My thoughts are that Ponder knows his recievers are not getting seperation and he has to try to fit in some throws.

Most people said during the off season not to overpay for anyone. The biggest mistake I think the Vikings made this off season was to pay Carlson 5 mil/yr instead of using that money and more to get Vincient Jackson. Look what Jackson is doing for Freeman.


I think it goes both ways. While guys like Jenkins, DA, and Burton aren't starting calibre recievers, you can still get at least some production out of them. A good QB get's at least 'some' production out of this group, as opposed to none.


I dont believe it. Ponder gave Burton an opportunity to produce, and he always drops them. Jenkins is solid in that 5-10 range, otherwise, he cant get open. If you dont have a cannon for an arm, I wouldnt advocate throwing in tight coverage and whenever Jenkins runs a route, the coverage is always tight due to his lack of speed and ability to get open.

The receivers are terrible and I find it hard to believe that any QB could be able to make Jenkins and Burton productive receivers at this point.
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twslhs20


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ponder can't throw down the feild accurately. Makes me sad we are stuck with him for another year or 2
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vikesnewcoach11


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
Kellerman wrote:
VikeSince70 wrote:
I do agree that those 2 interceptions in the red zone by Ponder were rediculious to say the least. I will also point out that Ponder has no confidence in his wideouts. The announcer of the game also said that his receivers were not getting any seperation all game long. My thoughts are that Ponder knows his recievers are not getting seperation and he has to try to fit in some throws.

Most people said during the off season not to overpay for anyone. The biggest mistake I think the Vikings made this off season was to pay Carlson 5 mil/yr instead of using that money and more to get Vincient Jackson. Look what Jackson is doing for Freeman.


I think it goes both ways. While guys like Jenkins, DA, and Burton aren't starting calibre recievers, you can still get at least some production out of them. A good QB get's at least 'some' production out of this group, as opposed to none.


I dont believe it. Ponder gave Burton an opportunity to produce, and he always drops them. Jenkins is solid in that 5-10 range, otherwise, he cant get open. If you dont have a cannon for an arm, I wouldnt advocate throwing in tight coverage and whenever Jenkins runs a route, the coverage is always tight due to his lack of speed and ability to get open.

The receivers are terrible and I find it hard to believe that any QB could be able to make Jenkins and Burton productive receivers at this point.


Also agree with this. Burton is a waste, Jenkins has reliable hands but is only a 5-10 guy and DA is only good for about 1 catch a game. I honestly want to know what quarterback would produce and make these receivers produce if they were running this offense. And its not helping Ponder that his best option in Percy is hurt.

Its almost somewhat sad to read some of these posts. People are tearing apart a guy that has no help and a bad OC and saying give up on the season and start Webb so we can get a better pick????? We are still in the playoff hunt, we can obviously run with GB and play them at home and same with Chicago, St. Louis is beatable. Who ever expected that?? We have already doubled our wins from last year, beat SF and swept DET and you guys are acting like we have 1 win and the world is ending. Some of you guys just throw in the towel way too easily and it seems like you get enjoyment out of complaining. The Vick and Smith talks are pointless because bottom line is...Spielman isnt giving up on Ponder until he completely builds around him (WR, OG). Watch Fraziers press conference from the GB game. You can tell they arent going to give up on him.

Either way, our team is definitely improving...dont forget, we were in rebuilding mode last year. No team that goes into rebuilding mode just fixes everything in one year. Did anyone ever expect this team to be in the playoff hunt? No. Be happy that we are improving and arent like JAX, CLE, OAK, and KC and suck year in and year out. Allow Spielman to fix the OG and WR problems and then we can really judge Ponder.
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vikesnewcoach11


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ktarinze wrote:
Vikingfan#84 wrote:
I am by no means a huge Ponder supporter but we have to let him start the rest of the year and get some actual playmakers for him in the offseason. Our receivers are brutal. Sure Ponder makes a few dumb decisions, mostly because his footwork is lazy when he is under pressure. If anyone here thinks Webb is actually a better QB than Ponder you are greatly mistaken.

Honestly I dont know why we keep throwing go routes to Simpson and Jenkins. I swear we haven't completed one in over a month. Jenkins cant get separation on deep patterns and Simpson is just too lazy to make a play or else he will try and complain to the ref that he got interfered with. WE need to bring in at least 3 new receivers through the draft or free agency this offseason while upgrading one of our guard spots as well. I no its stupid to overpay in free agency for a WR but really we dont have much other choice. If Mike Wallace or Greg Jennings are in free agency we might just have to pay them top dollar with lots of guarantees to get them.

All in all I do believe Ponder has the skills and smarts to be a good NFL QB but he has absolutely no faith in his WR's to get open other than Harvin. Thats why he is always forcing the ball to Rudy and really can you blame him. At least if Rudy's being covered there's still a chance that he will catch the ball which is something that can't be said about our sad sack of WR's.


Trust me he will not be a good QB. He can't find the open WR's when they get open and we would of won that game and maybe some others if we had a decent playing starting QB. He even missed a possible TD pass to peterson and hit the packers player in the back. Just horrible, at best he is a backup.


^ Are you Kiper or McShay? An NFL scout? or maybe working for the organization or something?

There are a lot of QB's that didnt show a whole lot of promise and made horrible throws their first few years in the league...(Brees and Eli come to mind) and Im pretty sure their fans love them right now. Lets not jump the gun too quick here. Let Spielman build around him and then we can "evaluate his talents"
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Captain Viking


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes ponder needs to improve significantly. But I'm watching this MNF game and already all I see are recievers running open all over the field. Why don't the Vikings get that. Is it just the recievers inability or is it scheme/routes? Drives me nuts watching RG3 throw it to guys with no one within 5 yards of them. Vikings never get that.

I see it every week around the NFL. But never in Minnesota.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Viking wrote:
Yes ponder needs to improve significantly. But I'm watching this MNF game and already all I see are recievers running open all over the field. Why don't the Vikings get that. Is it just the recievers inability or is it scheme/routes? Drives me nuts watching RG3 throw it to guys with no one within 5 yards of them. Vikings never get that.

I see it every week around the NFL. But never in Minnesota.


The Giants have a pretty bad pass defense statistically this year. Laughing
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Captain Viking


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know its obvious but right now every bit of our pass offense is a joke. A QB who looks more and more inept as the season goes. WRs who simply put shouldn't be in this league. And pass blocking that can be atrocious.
Everything but kalil and Rudolph and possibly Sullivan has been putrid. We need Harvin back badly
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Captain Viking


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
Captain Viking wrote:
Yes ponder needs to improve significantly. But I'm watching this MNF game and already all I see are recievers running open all over the field. Why don't the Vikings get that. Is it just the recievers inability or is it scheme/routes? Drives me nuts watching RG3 throw it to guys with no one within 5 yards of them. Vikings never get that.

I see it every week around the NFL. But never in Minnesota.


The Giants have a pretty bad pass defense statistically this year. Laughing
I've seen it all year with the redskins. All but one of those deep touchdowns RG3 has the wrs are at least 5 yards behind everyone. Vikings haven't had that once this year
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Viking wrote:
I know its obvious but right now every bit of our pass offense is a joke. A QB who looks more and more inept as the season goes. WRs who simply put shouldn't be in this league. And pass blocking that can be atrocious.
Everything but kalil and Rudolph and possibly Sullivan has been putrid. We need Harvin back badly


Phil Loadholt has been pretty good, at least much better than previous seasons. Otherwise, i do agree. you cant point to one individual for the passing game's failures. Ponder has obviously struggled without question. The interior line has not created clean pockets for most of the season. Percy Harvin is still showing to be much too one dimensional, he hasnt developed into a #1 WR as he probably should be as a first round pick. Outside of Harvin, there isnt a WR worthy of being an NFL starter. Rudolph has struggled with consistency issues as well.

Point is, its not fair to put all the blame on Ponder just as its not fair to put all the blame on the receivers.
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Loadholt has actually turned himself into one of the better all around tackles according to PFF.
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ktarinze


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikesnewcoach11 wrote:
ktarinze wrote:
Vikingfan#84 wrote:
I am by no means a huge Ponder supporter but we have to let him start the rest of the year and get some actual playmakers for him in the offseason. Our receivers are brutal. Sure Ponder makes a few dumb decisions, mostly because his footwork is lazy when he is under pressure. If anyone here thinks Webb is actually a better QB than Ponder you are greatly mistaken.

Honestly I dont know why we keep throwing go routes to Simpson and Jenkins. I swear we haven't completed one in over a month. Jenkins cant get separation on deep patterns and Simpson is just too lazy to make a play or else he will try and complain to the ref that he got interfered with. WE need to bring in at least 3 new receivers through the draft or free agency this offseason while upgrading one of our guard spots as well. I no its stupid to overpay in free agency for a WR but really we dont have much other choice. If Mike Wallace or Greg Jennings are in free agency we might just have to pay them top dollar with lots of guarantees to get them.

All in all I do believe Ponder has the skills and smarts to be a good NFL QB but he has absolutely no faith in his WR's to get open other than Harvin. Thats why he is always forcing the ball to Rudy and really can you blame him. At least if Rudy's being covered there's still a chance that he will catch the ball which is something that can't be said about our sad sack of WR's.


Trust me he will not be a good QB. He can't find the open WR's when they get open and we would of won that game and maybe some others if we had a decent playing starting QB. He even missed a possible TD pass to peterson and hit the packers player in the back. Just horrible, at best he is a backup.


^ Are you Kiper or McShay? An NFL scout? or maybe working for the organization or something?

There are a lot of QB's that didnt show a whole lot of promise and made horrible throws their first few years in the league...(Brees and Eli come to mind) and Im pretty sure their fans love them right now. Lets not jump the gun too quick here. Let Spielman build around him and then we can "evaluate his talents"


Nope just an honest fans who believes his eyes. He's done and will not be any good been saying this don't know why it's a surprise to you. Being an eli manning backer early on it just seemed hard for him to make the right throws. With ponder there are a whole bunch of problems. I'm done and he is done.
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Captain Viking


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpmwr19 wrote:
Loadholt has actually turned himself into one of the better all around tackles according to PFF.
I have noticed he isn't getting beat all the time .. being a contract year for him, do you think he has earned himself another contract in Minnesota. If he has stepped up id hate for the Vikings to create another hole to fill.

I just wish ponder would use his feet and legs when he throws. All those bad throws yesterday would've been better had he stepped into his throw instead of skipping around on his tip toes. I think its the one huge thing holding him back. That alone should improve accuracy and speed of throw.
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ktarinze


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikesnewcoach11 wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
Kellerman wrote:
VikeSince70 wrote:
I do agree that those 2 interceptions in the red zone by Ponder were rediculious to say the least. I will also point out that Ponder has no confidence in his wideouts. The announcer of the game also said that his receivers were not getting any seperation all game long. My thoughts are that Ponder knows his recievers are not getting seperation and he has to try to fit in some throws.

Most people said during the off season not to overpay for anyone. The biggest mistake I think the Vikings made this off season was to pay Carlson 5 mil/yr instead of using that money and more to get Vincient Jackson. Look what Jackson is doing for Freeman.


I think it goes both ways. While guys like Jenkins, DA, and Burton aren't starting calibre recievers, you can still get at least some production out of them. A good QB get's at least 'some' production out of this group, as opposed to none.


I dont believe it. Ponder gave Burton an opportunity to produce, and he always drops them. Jenkins is solid in that 5-10 range, otherwise, he cant get open. If you dont have a cannon for an arm, I wouldnt advocate throwing in tight coverage and whenever Jenkins runs a route, the coverage is always tight due to his lack of speed and ability to get open.

The receivers are terrible and I find it hard to believe that any QB could be able to make Jenkins and Burton productive receivers at this point.


Also agree with this. Burton is a waste, Jenkins has reliable hands but is only a 5-10 guy and DA is only good for about 1 catch a game. I honestly want to know what quarterback would produce and make these receivers produce if they were running this offense. And its not helping Ponder that his best option in Percy is hurt.

Its almost somewhat sad to read some of these posts. People are tearing apart a guy that has no help and a bad OC and saying give up on the season and start Webb so we can get a better pick????? We are still in the playoff hunt, we can obviously run with GB and play them at home and same with Chicago, St. Louis is beatable. Who ever expected that?? We have already doubled our wins from last year, beat SF and swept DET and you guys are acting like we have 1 win and the world is ending. Some of you guys just throw in the towel way too easily and it seems like you get enjoyment out of complaining. The Vick and Smith talks are pointless because bottom line is...Spielman isnt giving up on Ponder until he completely builds around him (WR, OG). Watch Fraziers press conference from the GB game. You can tell they arent going to give up on him.

Either way, our team is definitely improving...dont forget, we were in rebuilding mode last year. No team that goes into rebuilding mode just fixes everything in one year. Did anyone ever expect this team to be in the playoff hunt? No. Be happy that we are improving and arent like JAX, CLE, OAK, and KC and suck year in and year out. Allow Spielman to fix the OG and WR problems and then we can really judge Ponder.


Sad, I'll tell you what is sad our QB and our WR. Instead of feeling bad for that scrub ponder I feel sad for AD. His best years are going to waste having to deal with this. That is the saddest thing that is happening
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PaulWall_23


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What differentiates Christian Ponder?

Competitive Drive? No
Proven winner at other levels? No
Arm Strength? Nope
Accuracy? No....well maybe... on a good day, with-in 10 yards.
Decision-making? Countless head scratching throws, god no.
Mobility? Sure, compared to Peyton Manning.
Likeable? YES

I listen to Colin Cowheard all the time and he always talks about "likeability". I think Ponder is a likeable guy, says the right things and looks the part. If he was smug like Jay Cuter he probably would have been benched 10 times by now.

What we have is a bad QB, whose ceiling is no higher then Mark Sanchez's. That said, the media likes him and at times he may scurry for a 1st down.
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Captain Viking


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PaulWall_23 wrote:
What differentiates Christian Ponder?

Competitive Drive? No
Proven winner at other levels? No
Arm Strength? Nope
Accuracy? No....well maybe... on a good day, with-in 10 yards.
Decision-making? Countless head scratching throws, god no.
Mobility? Sure, compared to Peyton Manning.
Likeable? YES

I listen to Colin Cowheard all the time and he always talks about "likeability". I think Ponder is a likeable guy, says the right things and looks the part. If he was smug like Jay Cuter he probably would have been benched 10 times by now.

What we have is a bad QB, whose ceiling is no higher then Mark Sanchez's. That said, the media likes him and at times he may scurry for a 1st down.
he dates hot chicks
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