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SteelKing728


Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 14947
Location: Gibsonia, Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skywindO2 wrote:
SteelKing728 wrote:
Vikefan79 wrote:
PurpleMugen wrote:
^Dilfer's assessment is beautifully thorough and pinpointed. Agreed on virtually all counts.


What would Dilfer know about good quartebcking?


Did you read it?

Most of the stuff he says makes me laugh, but Dilfer is very much right.

Ponder is doing the little stuff just fine,
but when its time to step up his game, like the game we played yesterday, he didn't do anything. He didn't look ready or prepared to take on such challenge.

and he isn't saying Ponder is a bust. Its just that unless he brings out that QB mentality, of being the guy, instead of "Okay, Adrian's the guy. I'll take the backseat", then perhaps he may never truly progress.

the Matt Ryan and Alex Smith comparison were perfect.

What do you consider little stuff? Handing off the ball? That's the only thing he's doing well right now. He's not even accurately throwing swing passes and screens anymore.


reading a defense, dumping it down when no one is open downfield, for the most part feeling the pressure, etc.

In general he does the little things well, but as of lately he's in a huge funk.

(and if anyone asks, I'm talking about his career. The last few games do not define his career. just fyi)
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KeystoneViking


Joined: 27 Oct 2012
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Location: North Dakota
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JDBrocks wrote:
KeystoneViking wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
I generally agree with Polaris, QB is always a top priority if you dont have a proven one under center. I would support drafting a first round QB to replace Ponder if he doesnt do anything the rest of the year. Problem is, MN will be picking in the 12-16 range, QBs usually arent taken there. I dont like Barkley as a prospect either, I really dont see much that separates him physically from Ponder.


I don't think Ponder struggles with the physical part of the game...It's the mental aspect that he has struggled with since entering the league. Barkley has already mastered a pro-style offense that requires him to progress through his reads and that is why he will be successful; I would love it if Barkley were on this team


So did John David Booty, Matt Lienart, Mark Sanchez, Brady Quinn, Jimmy Clausen.........

He looks very much like those QBs. Surrounded by great talent in a defense-poor conference. He doesn't have the physical ability to be a top QB IMO.


I should be more specific...He has excellent pocket presence, his pre-snap recognition is great and he is able to go through his progressions very quickly, which leads to him always finding and getting the ball to the open receiver with ease, his mechanics are terrific, he puts more than adequate zip on his passes (I'd say he is a little better than Ponder in this area), he si extremely intellegent and has a very high football IQ, and his leadership qualities and work ethic are uncanny and are exactly what you look for in a franchise QB. To sum things up, I'm very high on the kid and don't think he should be punished for having good receivers to throw to and solid o-line
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AQuintus


Joined: 16 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the point of even talking about Barkley? Even if you think that he is worth a 1st round pick, we won't be able to get him with ours. He's going to go top 3 this year. We will be picking somewhere between 10 and 20. Even assuming that we think he's a can't miss, elite prospect (and he isn't), we have waaaay too many holes on this team to trade up and get him.
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AQuintus wrote:
What's the point of even talking about Barkley? Even if you think that he is worth a 1st round pick, we won't be able to get him with ours. He's going to go top 3 this year. We will be picking somewhere between 10 and 20. Even assuming that we think he's a can't miss, elite prospect (and he isn't), we have waaaay too many holes on this team to trade up and get him.

Well stated.
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PurpleMugen


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AQuintus wrote:
What's the point of even talking about Barkley? Even if you think that he is worth a 1st round pick, we won't be able to get him with ours. He's going to go top 3 this year. We will be picking somewhere between 10 and 20. Even assuming that we think he's a can't miss, elite prospect (and he isn't), we have waaaay too many holes on this team to trade up and get him.


I do think Barkley will be out of our reach simply because we won't be picking high enough, so we should be taking a good, long look at the other QB prospects in the 8-15 range. That should still do just fine.
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Kellerman


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PurpleMugen wrote:
AQuintus wrote:
What's the point of even talking about Barkley? Even if you think that he is worth a 1st round pick, we won't be able to get him with ours. He's going to go top 3 this year. We will be picking somewhere between 10 and 20. Even assuming that we think he's a can't miss, elite prospect (and he isn't), we have waaaay too many holes on this team to trade up and get him.


I do think Barkley will be out of our reach simply because we won't be picking high enough, so we should be taking a good, long look at the other QB prospects in the 8-15 range. That should still do just fine.


I don't really like Bray, and I think he falls a bit. Haven't seen anything of Tyler Wilson, as I've only started watching select college games since this season, and other teams are likely to jump us if he performs well (like the Bills).

If Ponder doesn't prove to be the long-term answer, the following strategy seems the best: use the 2013 draft to continue the rebuild, try to get some future picks, start Ponder for 2013. In the 2014 draft, pick a QB you like, maybe trade up for him using those future picks. Start Ponder (contract year), let the rookie sit a year.

Rookie cap makes it easier to ditch 1st rounders, but I don't see us being in range of a QB the next draft, so it's a moot point.
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AQuintus


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PurpleMugen wrote:
I do think Barkley will be out of our reach simply because we won't be picking high enough, so we should be taking a good, long look at the other QB prospects in the 8-15 range. That should still do just fine.


Like who? None of them project to be any better than Ponder.
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PurpleMugen


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AQuintus wrote:
PurpleMugen wrote:
I do think Barkley will be out of our reach simply because we won't be picking high enough, so we should be taking a good, long look at the other QB prospects in the 8-15 range. That should still do just fine.


Like who? None of them project to be any better than Ponder.


I don't even know what this means, though. Who is projecting all of these QBs to be worse than Ponder? You? I don't see what's wrong in hoping a future QB is the right one for the job considering current circumstances.
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this providence


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know some (many?) would hate this, but I'd honestly see what it would take to get Romo out of Dallas. Yes, his song and dance is well documented at this point, but there needs to come a time when the team needs to look at their roster and make a commitment one way or another. If they're set in the mindset of wanting to develop a QB, they'll also be essentially wasting one of the top players of this current (NFL) generation in the process.

I've been of the opinion since Ponder's draft year that he isn't a capable starter in this league and working off of that assumption, they will need to move assets to move up in the draft to acquire a higher end QB that can hypothetically be the better option or; they'll need to make shrewd moves in acquiring a capable starting QB already in the league.

Either scenario is less than ideal but it just is what it is at this point, in my opinion. It's one of the main reasons why I stated up and down before that draft that the worst thing the Vikings could do was press the issue at QB and force something that may not be there. If things continue to go the way they're trending, they've now set themselves back even further.
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PurpleMugen


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kellerman wrote:
PurpleMugen wrote:
AQuintus wrote:
What's the point of even talking about Barkley? Even if you think that he is worth a 1st round pick, we won't be able to get him with ours. He's going to go top 3 this year. We will be picking somewhere between 10 and 20. Even assuming that we think he's a can't miss, elite prospect (and he isn't), we have waaaay too many holes on this team to trade up and get him.


I do think Barkley will be out of our reach simply because we won't be picking high enough, so we should be taking a good, long look at the other QB prospects in the 8-15 range. That should still do just fine.


I don't really like Bray, and I think he falls a bit. Haven't seen anything of Tyler Wilson, as I've only started watching select college games since this season, and other teams are likely to jump us if he performs well (like the Bills).

If Ponder doesn't prove to be the long-term answer, the following strategy seems the best: use the 2013 draft to continue the rebuild, try to get some future picks, start Ponder for 2013. In the 2014 draft, pick a QB you like, maybe trade up for him using those future picks. Start Ponder (contract year), let the rookie sit a year.

Rookie cap makes it easier to ditch 1st rounders, but I don't see us being in range of a QB the next draft, so it's a moot point.


I like your approach. The only quibble I have with it is that I'm not interested in seeing Ponder start another year the way he has this year. I would like to see an open - as in, completely fair - camp competition between Webb and Ponder. Winner starts until the next QB we've invested hope in is ready to take the reigns.
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AQuintus


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PurpleMugen wrote:


I don't even know what this means, though. Who is projecting all of these QBs to be worse than Ponder? You?


Yes me.


Quote:
I don't see what's wrong in hoping a future QB is the right one for the job considering current circumstances.


Current circumstances like 1 starting level receiver, 1 starting level LB, 1 starting level DT who is likely to leave in FA, 2 bad guards, and questions in the secondary?

How does using a 1st round pick on a QB who likely won't be better than a backup (Bray, Wilson, or Murry) going to help that?
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PurpleMugen


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AQuintus wrote:
PurpleMugen wrote:


I don't even know what this means, though. Who is projecting all of these QBs to be worse than Ponder? You?


Yes me.


Can I ask for your credentials and/or qualifications?
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PurpleMugen wrote:
AQuintus wrote:
PurpleMugen wrote:


I don't even know what this means, though. Who is projecting all of these QBs to be worse than Ponder? You?


Yes me.


Can I ask for your credentials and/or qualifications?

He doesn't really need to have either. He's just stating an opinion.

That's why most us signed up here to discuss football and give our views on prospects and players

I for one don't think that there is a QB available this next draft that would provide that huge an upgrade, if any, over Ponder. It's my opinion that the top end for QB's and WR's is weak this year.
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PurpleMugen


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpmwr19 wrote:
PurpleMugen wrote:
AQuintus wrote:
PurpleMugen wrote:


I don't even know what this means, though. Who is projecting all of these QBs to be worse than Ponder? You?


Yes me.


Can I ask for your credentials and/or qualifications?

He doesn't really need to have either. He's just stating an opinion.

That's why most us signed up here to discuss football and give our views on prospects and players

I for one don't think that there is a QB available this next draft that would provide that huge an upgrade, if any, over Ponder. It's my opinion that the top end for QB's and WR's is weak this year.


I understand that better than most, seeing as I've caught a lot of heat in the past for having a negative opinion of Ponder (though his play is coinciding with what I have been saying).

That said, he was trying to make it look like others "project" those QBs to be as bad as Ponder. "None of them project to be any better than Ponder." An odd way to phrase a statement when it is only your opinion.
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ArcticNorseman


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oddly, many in here thought the Vikes would finish 5-11 or worse and were woo-ing the day Frazier would be canned and Ponder gone.

Yep, there's a possibility these guys could finish 5-11 and in that case, i could see changes happening . . . I mean really, the only two defensive guys injured so far are Mistral Raymond and Chris Cook . . . both good guys, but the rest of the D should be able to pick up and play better than they have been.

Offensively, what injuries have significantly degraded this team? None, yet (except I think Childs would've been impressive). That said, what we've seen the last 3 weeks is defensive adjustments made where they're bringing a run blitz to stop Adrian and with only 3 or 4 guys blocking properly, Ponder's feeling the heat. No way any defensive coordinator is going to dial that down now.

Therefore, the WRs and Ponder better start making some plays . . . oh wait a minute, seems the Offense started some 6'6" dude at tight end earlier in the year . . . Ponders roommie and buddy . . . what happened to that relationship? If it gets going again, the Vikes will win. Yes, Rudolph catching 5-6 balls a game will put the Vikes into a winning record and contention for a wild-card. How hard can it be for Musgrave to put Ponder in position to succeed with this? The patterns are called "slant", "drag," "cross" and "post."

No QB in the NFL will win games when all he's throwing are go-routes/fly's and bubble screens or RB check-downs. Oh, seems there's something like a "hook" route too . . . Rolling Eyes

Now as for drafting a QB in the 1st Round this coming year? I doubt it . . . none of them will be as good as Ponder is right now, and that's what most anti-Ponder guys ignore. Maybe he does need to ride off into the sunset, but he's got 7 more games to show some moxie and get this team's offense going in more ways than on the ground.

Oh, and I don't think he's so fragile that he's worried about it being Adrian's team . . . lol. When a pass play is called, someone needs to block -- helmet on helmet . . . this crap of O-line doubling-up on one guy or the chip missing the blitz is hurting this team . . . and we as fans want one guy's head for it? C'mon MAN! Wink
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