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this providence


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 11149
Location: Ugh.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing, and I do mean ONLY thing, I was looking for from this entire year was something in Ponder's game that would justify having any sort of faith in him moving forward into next season.

Quite frankly, he's shown nothing over the course of this season that would suggest that the QB position isn't still is the #1 need on the team. And as bad as the WR position is, the QB position is still markedly worse. Don't think it's debatable either.
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Captain Viking


Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Posts: 2627
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikesnewcoach11 wrote:
PurpleMugen wrote:
vikesnewcoach11 wrote:
CriminalMind wrote:
a) We take RG3, and theres still a chance Harrison is there with Pick #34
b) We auction off RG3, to Washington for the same package STL got.

Either way, sitting #3 was significantly worse then sitting #2


There was a reason why we traded up for smith...he wasnt going to be there at 34


Not necessarily. Most draft pundits had him pegged as an early-mid 2nd-rounder. Many on this board considered the pick a slight reach at the time. There was definitely a chance he'd be available at #34.


There was about a 90% chance he wasnt going to be there. There were rumors that NE and BAL were looking at trading up for him and if we didnt trade up we probably wouldnt have landed him.
I remember grumblings that Washington wanted ponder and move down from the 10 spot to try and get some value.. which was the biggest reason the Vikings selected him 12th (after failing to find a trade partner) imagine that.. RG3 might not be a redskin had they not traded back
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rpmwr19


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 35765
Location: Stillwater, MN
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember those rumblings as well. Miami and Washington were both rumored to like Ponder with their selections.

It could have just been them putting up smokescreens or they could have really liked them. A shame we can never know for sure.
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ArcticNorseman


Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 2987
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Over the course if history in the NFL, there have been QBs that have carried teams, and there have been teams that carried QBs.

As much as I'd like to believe Ponder can carry the team, I don't right now. Legitimately, he needs to have 2 more wins with 250 yrds per game 0 picks, 5 TDs and a QBR of 100+ to grantee himself of a starting gig without competition next year.

The 2013 Viking will be a team that carries the QB, just like the 49ers did last year and the bears did a few years back. If Spielman puts the pieces in place, 2013 will be similar to Big Ben's first year in the league.

Then, what for 2014?
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Purple Faithful


Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 2839
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol, guys. The obvious time to upgrade QB was last year whith RG3 sitting within striking distance, but I was beating that drum nearly alone as everyone else here spent their time beating me. 2013 does not, imo, hold an obvious upgrade to Ponder. So why "force" it like 2011 all over again? add an extra pick in 2014, try to move for Manziel or the Louisville kid if they appear to be the real deal. Can some of you now agree with me LT's do not fix QB's any more than WR's do? Ponder/Gabbert as prime examples. -but, Geno Atkins sure helps make cinci's QB look good. Cinci has not allowed a 300 yard passer since week 2. What's wrong with that? elite defenses are built from the middle out and the Vikes middle is poor to mediocre - LB and DT. fix the middle, hold ponder to 10-12 passes a game, put in the RG3 option where he rides the RB's hip, - hand it off 10 times like that a game, pull it and throw over the vacated LB's running up on AD 3 times a game or so. Ponder will look all-world and it is an offense Webb would look fantastic in as well, as Webb can also RG3 around the corner better than RG3 can.

Draft a DT like fletcher cox, if there's one this year. or T'eo, if that fails, and just plan to trade the farm for a shot at the next elite franchise QB prospect.

Oh, and do you guys still think Darrell Bevell sucks? maybe it's not our coaches, lol, and it's our personnel. (spielman! build a team, not a collection of talent!)
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Don't blame me, i wanted fletcher cox, cordy glenn, aaron donald, and derrick carr.
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CriminalMind


Joined: 25 Aug 2011
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Location: Toronto, CA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in the squad where I want them to fix the middle of Defense this draft.
I am going to receive slack for this, but my ideal draft (given there is value on the board), would be R1 & R2 for DT and ILB
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Purple Faithful


Joined: 11 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CriminalMind wrote:
I'm in the squad where I want them to fix the middle of Defense this draft.
I am going to receive slack for this, but my ideal draft (given there is value on the board), would be R1 & R2 for DT and ILB
Must be a special kind of DT. someone with the ability to pass rush. I loved Fletcher Cox and before that I was with the group here who thought maybe JJ watt would look good in purple. KWill has been over since 2008 an an elite DT, imo.
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Don't blame me, i wanted fletcher cox, cordy glenn, aaron donald, and derrick carr.
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PrplChilPill


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 10825
Location: Portland, OR
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CriminalMind wrote:
I'm in the squad where I want them to fix the middle of Defense this draft.
I am going to receive slack for this, but my ideal draft (given there is value on the board), would be R1 & R2 for DT and ILB


If they sign a legit WR in FA, I could live with that draft.
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DJpillz317


Joined: 21 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I say we build a hell of a roster and keep Ponder, then when Johnny Football comes out, we sell the farm for him. Who's with me!
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Blake Bortles is going to be a Viking
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Lil Uno


Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 8582
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DJpillz317 wrote:
I say we build a hell of a roster and keep Ponder, then when Teddy Bridgewater comes out, we sell the farm for him. Who's with me!


FIFY. Wink

Manziel is Tim Tebow V.2., will be a college football legend but nothing in the NFL.
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Lil Uno


Joined: 17 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a lot of respect for Spielman. Obviously his first draft as the GM was excellent. He comes off as a very methodical person as evident by this:

Quote:
Before this season began, Vikings general manager Rick Spielman says he sat down, performed a detailed statistical analysis of a handful of elite quarterbacks around the NFL, then used that data to project Christian Ponderís 2012 statistics.

Through 10 games, Spielman insists, his Ponder projections have proven pretty darn accurate.


If Spielman can put together another offseason like this past one, I'll believe him about Ponder. Smile
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Vikefan79


Joined: 05 Apr 2005
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Location: Atlanta
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lil Uno wrote:
DJpillz317 wrote:
I say we build a hell of a roster and keep Ponder, then when Teddy Bridgewater comes out, we sell the farm for him. Who's with me!


FIFY. Wink

Manziel is Tim Tebow V.2., will be a college football legend but nothing in the NFL.


Agreed!
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Uncle Buck


Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 18579
Location: Viking Country
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DJpillz317 wrote:
I say we build a hell of a roster and keep Ponder, then when Johnny Football comes out, we sell the farm for him. Who's with me!


That's exactly the right thing to do. You need an elite quarterback these days. Without one you are nothing but a team that the other teams (who do have elite QB's) beat on their way to the Super Bowl.

I'd love to get Tebow in here, but I know there is no way it will ever happen. Barring that, your plan is undoubtedly the best course of action to take.

Unfortunately, what this team will more than likely do is build that great roster, and then pick the best quarterback available with the late first round pick we have at the time. They won't have the stones to pay the price like Washington did with RGIII.
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ArcticNorseman


Joined: 06 Mar 2005
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Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uncle Buck wrote:
DJpillz317 wrote:
I say we build a hell of a roster and keep Ponder, then when Johnny Football comes out, we sell the farm for him. Who's with me!


That's exactly the right thing to do. You need an elite quarterback these days. Without one you are nothing but a team that the other teams (who do have elite QB's) beat on their way to the Super Bowl.

I'd love to get Tebow in here, but I know there is no way it will ever happen. Barring that, your plan is undoubtedly the best course of action to take.

Unfortunately, what this team will more than likely do is build that great roster, and then pick the best quarterback available with the late first round pick we have at the time. They won't have the stones to pay the price like Washington did with RGIII.


Did I read this right? Tebow is viewed as an elite QB?

How?

Ponder is light-years ahead of Tebow when it comes to reading defenses and throwing the ball .... oh wait ... Uncle Buck's bein' funny lol.
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Uncle Buck


Joined: 10 Apr 2007
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Location: Viking Country
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArcticNorseman wrote:
Uncle Buck wrote:
DJpillz317 wrote:
I say we build a hell of a roster and keep Ponder, then when Johnny Football comes out, we sell the farm for him. Who's with me!


That's exactly the right thing to do. You need an elite quarterback these days. Without one you are nothing but a team that the other teams (who do have elite QB's) beat on their way to the Super Bowl.

I'd love to get Tebow in here, but I know there is no way it will ever happen. Barring that, your plan is undoubtedly the best course of action to take.

Unfortunately, what this team will more than likely do is build that great roster, and then pick the best quarterback available with the late first round pick we have at the time. They won't have the stones to pay the price like Washington did with RGIII.


Did I read this right? Tebow is viewed as an elite QB?

How?

Ponder is light-years ahead of Tebow when it comes to reading defenses and throwing the ball .... oh wait ... Uncle Buck's bein' funny lol.


You read with 100% comprehension. Tebow is light years ahead of Ponder when it comes to leading a team to a win. Granted, his short and medium range passing is pretty bad, but his deep ball is consistently a lot better than Ponder's. He is also a better threat to run with the ball, although I admit Ponder is decent in that area.

Ultimately, Tebow's ceiling is miles higher than that of Ponder. With the right offense installed, I could see Tebow leading our team to multiple Super Bowl wins. With Ponder...not so much. When all is said and done, you don't win games on the stat sheet. You win them on the scoreboard. We saw last year how Tebow did in that area, and we've had two years to analyze Ponder. I'll take Tebow every single time.
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