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Joe Webb - QB only in 2012
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PurpleMugen


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lil Uno wrote:
I was all for letting Ponder work through the growing pains but he isn't progressing. At this point Webb can't be any worse than Ponder. They are both inaccurate passers with an inability to read defenses. Webb does offer playmaking ability as a runner and isn't afraid to sling the ball around. He is going to throw the INTs but I think he can make lot passes Ponder can't. With the threat of Peterson and Harvin, Webb doesn't have to be great just competent.


Keep in mind that Webb has not had nearly as many chances as Ponder has had. Any other coach in the NFL would have pulled Ponder today, but it is evident he is being given chances not because he deserves them (which is what you want), but because egos are at play and the coaches are relying on unsubstantiated hope that he will magically get his act together. Webb absolutely deserves this more than Ponder does, at this stage.
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BBIB


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PurpleMugen wrote:
Lil Uno wrote:
I was all for letting Ponder work through the growing pains but he isn't progressing. At this point Webb can't be any worse than Ponder. They are both inaccurate passers with an inability to read defenses. Webb does offer playmaking ability as a runner and isn't afraid to sling the ball around. He is going to throw the INTs but I think he can make lot passes Ponder can't. With the threat of Peterson and Harvin, Webb doesn't have to be great just competent.


Keep in mind that Webb has not had nearly as many chances as Ponder has had. Any other coach in the NFL would have pulled Ponder today, but it is evident he is being given chances not because he deserves them (which is what you want), but because egos are at play and the coaches are relying on unsubstantiated hope that he will magically get his act together. Webb absolutely deserves this more than Ponder does, at this stage.


Well that's why when people say 1st round QBs succeed more, they also are given more chances.
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm thinking Ponder starts the Bears game but if he has another half like he did this week I wouldn't be surprised to see Joe Webb leading the team out of the tunnel for the 2nd.
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Gordon Bombay


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I realize this thread is for Joe Webb talk but I just want to say I would really like to see MBLT play and this felt like the best place to put it.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gordon Bombay wrote:
I realize this thread is for Joe Webb talk but I just want to say I would really like to see MBLT play and this felt like the best place to put it.


I wouldnt be opposed to it. Id rather see Bethel-Thompson play over Webb, MBT just looked like a better QB in the pre season which is honestly all we have to look at.
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PurpleMugen


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
Gordon Bombay wrote:
I realize this thread is for Joe Webb talk but I just want to say I would really like to see MBLT play and this felt like the best place to put it.


I wouldnt be opposed to it. Id rather see Bethel-Thompson play over Webb, MBT just looked like a better QB in the pre season which is honestly all we have to look at.


Because we don't have actual NFL regular season in-game performance to look at for Webb?
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PurpleMugen wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
Gordon Bombay wrote:
I realize this thread is for Joe Webb talk but I just want to say I would really like to see MBLT play and this felt like the best place to put it.


I wouldnt be opposed to it. Id rather see Bethel-Thompson play over Webb, MBT just looked like a better QB in the pre season which is honestly all we have to look at.


Because we don't have actual NFL regular season in-game performance to look at for Webb?


What, his 3 TDs/5 Ints and career 66.6 rating. I was giving Webb the benefit of the doubt by NOT including those numbers since he hasnt had much time at QB. You cant say he has little experience at QB and then point to his regular season experience as evidence for him over someone else when his numbers suggest he is very ineffective.
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SteelKing728


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^ His numbers suggest he hasn't had a large enough work sample to give a full explanation of how well he's played in this league.

maybe we should just crucify every QB who doesn't look elite after a few games. Maybe then we'll find "That guy".

sigh
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PurpleMugen


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
PurpleMugen wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
Gordon Bombay wrote:
I realize this thread is for Joe Webb talk but I just want to say I would really like to see MBLT play and this felt like the best place to put it.


I wouldnt be opposed to it. Id rather see Bethel-Thompson play over Webb, MBT just looked like a better QB in the pre season which is honestly all we have to look at.


Because we don't have actual NFL regular season in-game performance to look at for Webb?


What, his 3 TDs/5 Ints and career 66.6 rating. I was giving Webb the benefit of the doubt by NOT including those numbers since he hasnt had much time at QB. You cant say he has little experience at QB and then point to his regular season experience as evidence for him over someone else when his numbers suggest he is very ineffective.


So that is how you would characterize his play? He has been very ineffective? Was he very ineffective against the Eagles? Against the Redskins? Against the Lions? On top of all this, has Ponder been very effective? Has he been more effective? Some things to consider (or re-consider).
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Worm Guts


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

His numbers in year 2 were better than his rookie numbers. He seemed to improve, why not see if his progression has continued?
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PurpleMugen wrote:
So that is how you would characterize his play? He has been very ineffective? Was he very ineffective against the Eagles? Against the Redskins? Against the Lions? On top of all this, has Ponder been very effective? Has he been more effective? Some things to consider (or re-consider).


What is there to reconsider?

I am not denying that Ponder hasnt been an ineffective QB, but Ponder has had flashes of good games as well. Why trade one ineffective QB for another? What does that accomplish, unless you want a guy who can possibly run the ball more, which could benefit the team in other ways like Tebow did for Denver last year.
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PurpleMugen


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
PurpleMugen wrote:
So that is how you would characterize his play? He has been very ineffective? Was he very ineffective against the Eagles? Against the Redskins? Against the Lions? On top of all this, has Ponder been very effective? Has he been more effective? Some things to consider (or re-consider).


What is there to reconsider?

I am not denying that Ponder hasnt been an ineffective QB, but Ponder has had flashes of good games as well. Why trade one ineffective QB for another? What does that accomplish, unless you want a guy who can possibly run the ball more, which could benefit the team in other ways like Tebow did for Denver last year.


So we should advocate a 3-year plan for Ponder but not even give Webb half the chance, right? You dodged most of my questions, to boot. Webb has been far more effective than Ponder in his limited time.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PurpleMugen wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
PurpleMugen wrote:
So that is how you would characterize his play? He has been very ineffective? Was he very ineffective against the Eagles? Against the Redskins? Against the Lions? On top of all this, has Ponder been very effective? Has he been more effective? Some things to consider (or re-consider).


What is there to reconsider?

I am not denying that Ponder hasnt been an ineffective QB, but Ponder has had flashes of good games as well. Why trade one ineffective QB for another? What does that accomplish, unless you want a guy who can possibly run the ball more, which could benefit the team in other ways like Tebow did for Denver last year.


So we should advocate a 3-year plan for Ponder but not even give Webb half the chance, right? You dodged most of my questions, to boot. Webb has been far more effective than Ponder in his limited time.


I addressed those questions. Both players have shown flashes of good play and ineffective play. Ponder has been given more time, and Webb has had less time, but Webb's numbers as a whole are still inferior to Ponder's. Woudl Webb get better as the starter, where team's game planned for him week in and week out. A lot of Webb's success came when he filled in for Ponder/Favre when the defense didnt anticipate facing a QB like Webb. I would be more curious to see how defenses would respond to Webb as a starter and how he would handle it. There isnt anything that I have seen from Webb to suggest he would be anymore effective as a full time starter, not a reliever.
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PurpleMugen


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
I addressed those questions. Both players have shown flashes of good play and ineffective play. Ponder has been given more time, and Webb has had less time, but Webb's numbers as a whole are still inferior to Ponder's. Woudl Webb get better as the starter, where team's game planned for him week in and week out. A lot of Webb's success came when he filled in for Ponder/Favre when the defense didnt anticipate facing a QB like Webb. I would be more curious to see how defenses would respond to Webb as a starter and how he would handle it. There isnt anything that I have seen from Webb to suggest he would be anymore effective as a full time starter, not a reliever.


Even if you believe that, the point is that he deserves a chance. Ponder absolutely doesn't deserve it anymore. How can that be argued against? It's not a stretch at all to say Webb should at least get a crack at it. No one is saying he should just be handed the job (the way Ponder has had it).
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PurpleMugen wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
I addressed those questions. Both players have shown flashes of good play and ineffective play. Ponder has been given more time, and Webb has had less time, but Webb's numbers as a whole are still inferior to Ponder's. Woudl Webb get better as the starter, where team's game planned for him week in and week out. A lot of Webb's success came when he filled in for Ponder/Favre when the defense didnt anticipate facing a QB like Webb. I would be more curious to see how defenses would respond to Webb as a starter and how he would handle it. There isnt anything that I have seen from Webb to suggest he would be anymore effective as a full time starter, not a reliever.


Even if you believe that, the point is that he deserves a chance. Ponder absolutely doesn't deserve it anymore. How can that be argued against? It's not a stretch at all to say Webb should at least get a crack at it. No one is saying he should just be handed the job (the way Ponder has had it).


I actually wouldnt even be against giving Webb a shot at the starting job, but if you give Webb a shot at the starting job I think you may as well throw MBT in the mix as well.
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