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Joe Webb - QB only in 2012
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Purplexing


Joined: 13 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelKing728 wrote:
Purplexing,

We did use Webb in a situational role. It was called the Blazer package, and it failed miserably. We tried using an offense that hasn't been even remotely effective since what, 2008?

Joe Webb played far better lining up as a conventional QB, than some Blazer Wildcat QB/RB/WR.


There are situations, not packages, in which Webb might do much better than Ponder. It is the coaches job to figure that out, and use Webb accordingly. For example, 3rd and long near mid-field.

I'm not sure if Frazier intends to use Webb only as a backup QB. If Ponder busts, that is a great plan. If Ponder develops and matures in 2012, Webb's talent will be underutilized. Which is more likely? No one knows for sure.

I'm not yet convinced that Webb will play consistently well as a conventional QB. That is why Ponder was drafted, moved ahead of Webb on the depth chart in the first half of 2011, and is the presumed starter now. But, as you say, things can change. Wink

In summary, the ideal case is for Webb and Ponder to both improve. If not, one improving means the Vikings have a starting QB going forward.
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Kellerman


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whether you alternate in special packages, or just in certain situations, I don't think we should be going in that direction. We run a version of the west-coast offense, it relies on timing and rythm. Ponder and Webb both bring a totally differnt style of play to the table. Subbing a QB is not the same as subbing a TE or HB when you want to pass or run. You are removing the most vital part of the offense.

Pick one, and stick with him. If Webb is really treated as a pure QB, then he should not be used as a sub, because no team in the league subs QB's, except for mop-up duty in the 4th quarter.

PS: Last year you could see that when Webb subbed in on special packages, it only caused the offense to lose it's rythm/momentum. When he was in at QB for an extended period of time, he looked better, because then the offense can adjust to the new playing style, it can't if it's just a play here and there.
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Purplexing


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kellerman wrote:
Whether you alternate in special packages, or just in certain situations, I don't think we should be going in that direction. We run a version of the west-coast offense, it relies on timing and rythm. Ponder and Webb both bring a totally differnt style of play to the table. Subbing a QB is not the same as subbing a TE or HB when you want to pass or run. You are removing the most vital part of the offense.

Pick one, and stick with him. If Webb is really treated as a pure QB, then he should not be used as a sub, because no team in the league subs QB's, except for mop-up duty in the 4th quarter.

PS: Last year you could see that when Webb subbed in on special packages, it only caused the offense to lose it's rythm/momentum. When he was in at QB for an extended period of time, he looked better, because then the offense can adjust to the new playing style, it can't if it's just a play here and there.


Special packages =/= special situations.

I HATE to start getting into specifics, but I will do so briefly, to illustrate my point....

In the red zone, and most other situations, Ponder would be the QB.

At midfield, or farther from the opponents goal line, Webb is a great open-field run threat. So, on 3rd down and long, from 'far from the opponents goal line', Webb would sub in to throw a pass from a routine formation, not a special package. If he cannot find an open receiver, he could run. Ponder's speed and agility would suggest he is less likely to gain the 1st down.

Do NOT take the above as the one and only rule I am suggesting. It is an example of a situation in which Webb would sub in for Ponder.
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Kellerman


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Purplexing wrote:
Kellerman wrote:
Whether you alternate in special packages, or just in certain situations, I don't think we should be going in that direction. We run a version of the west-coast offense, it relies on timing and rythm. Ponder and Webb both bring a totally differnt style of play to the table. Subbing a QB is not the same as subbing a TE or HB when you want to pass or run. You are removing the most vital part of the offense.

Pick one, and stick with him. If Webb is really treated as a pure QB, then he should not be used as a sub, because no team in the league subs QB's, except for mop-up duty in the 4th quarter.

PS: Last year you could see that when Webb subbed in on special packages, it only caused the offense to lose it's rythm/momentum. When he was in at QB for an extended period of time, he looked better, because then the offense can adjust to the new playing style, it can't if it's just a play here and there.


Special packages =/= special situations.

I HATE to start getting into specifics, but I will do so briefly, to illustrate my point....

In the red zone, and most other situations, Ponder would be the QB.

At midfield, or farther from the opponents goal line, Webb is a great open-field run threat. So, on 3rd down and long, from 'far from the opponents goal line', Webb would sub in to throw a pass from a routine formation, not a special package. If he cannot find an open receiver, he could run. Ponder's speed and agility would suggest he is less likely to gain the 1st down.

Do NOT take the above as the one and only rule I am suggesting. It is an example of a situation in which Webb would sub in for Ponder.


Like I said, I don't think that the difference between situation/package is as big as it sounds. In that situation you provided, you have Ponder playing QB the whole game. Then Webb comes in cold to attempt a 3rd down and long. To me it seems that the QB who has been in the game the entire time, and has developed a rythm with his offense, has the best chance of making that play.

Besides, what kind of message does it send to your starter? O hey, you can start for us at QB, but at several key moments in the game we are going to sub in your back-up, because we think he'll do better than our starting QB...

I just don't see any feasible way where subbing QB's in the NFL like that would work, except in the case of a wildcat/blazer package, but that hasn't proven to be fruitful in the long term.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could see packages where Webb and Ponder are on the field together, with Ponder under center and Webb lined up at WR, and getting a misdirection run/pass type play. Otherwise, substituting QBs for situations just doesnt seem like an ideal strategy, Ponder needs to be on the field at all times under center unless he becomes ineffective.

Webb though needs to focus on being a backup QB, however, i wouldnt be surprised to see a few trick plays called to get Webb a few touches from time to time.
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milanb


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Webb seems to be catching some praise in Cleveland of all places:

http://dawgpounddaily.com/2012/06/04/a-look-at-the-nfls-other-quarterback-controversies/

Cool
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

milanb wrote:
Webb seems to be catching some praise in Cleveland of all places:

http://dawgpounddaily.com/2012/06/04/a-look-at-the-nfls-other-quarterback-controversies/

Cool


I really wouldnt mind there being a bit of a competition for the #1 job between Ponder and Webb, nothing wrong with good competition until there is an established starter.

I think the job is basically being handed to Ponder, there will be no competition, and it will be up to him to keep that job.
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milanb


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm beginning to think that the lack of a QB competition may actually be better for all parties, including Joe Webb. The team and the coaching staff have a lot of work ahead of them, and a QB competition could prove divisive and distracting to everyone. And there's no guarantee that it would settle anything in terms of who's the long-term solution at QB.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

milanb wrote:
I'm beginning to think that the lack of a QB competition may actually be better for all parties, including Joe Webb. The team and the coaching staff have a lot of work ahead of them, and a QB competition could prove divisive and distracting to everyone. And there's no guarantee that it would settle anything in terms of who's the long-term solution at QB.


Plus one guy getting most of the first team reps will put that player in a better position to succeed, which is the ultimate goal. One of the issues with QB competitions is there not being enough reps to go around to get fully acclimated with the offense. I actually prefer handing one guy the job in this case, and if they really struggle, make the switch.
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heydudemanG


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

milanb wrote:
Webb seems to be catching some praise in Cleveland of all places:

http://dawgpounddaily.com/2012/06/04/a-look-at-the-nfls-other-quarterback-controversies/

Cool


This columnist really likes Joe Webb. It's not only us who see the potenial in Joe webb He played well! I really think he's more ready to be a starting qb then Ponder. You can just tell he's more comfortable under center. Nothing against ponder he needs more time simply as that. If he doesn't play well at all I say put Joe in, even if it was only a few quarters.
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milanb


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, this is all stuff we already knew, but nice article nonetheless:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/19402832/leslie-frazier-christian-ponder-is-vikings-starting-qb
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SteelKing728


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

milanb wrote:
OK, this is all stuff we already knew, but nice article nonetheless:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/19402832/leslie-frazier-christian-ponder-is-vikings-starting-qb


I really have the feeling, one way or another, Joe Webb will be a starting QB in this league and he's going to surprise alot of people.

Whether thats for the Vikings or some other team, I'll always root for him personally.
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Eastern Walrus


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelKing728 wrote:
milanb wrote:
OK, this is all stuff we already knew, but nice article nonetheless:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/19402832/leslie-frazier-christian-ponder-is-vikings-starting-qb


I really have the feeling, one way or another, Joe Webb will be a starting QB in this league and he's going to surprise alot of people.

Whether thats for the Vikings or some other team, I'll always root for him personally.


Agreed, I will be a fan of his no matter where he travels to in the NFL
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Eric dunn


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love me some Joe Webb. He is my 3rd fav Viking behing AD and Percy.

I honestly wouldnt mind if there were competition at the QB position and Joe won. So what Christian was a 1st round pick last year, the best player should play. Dont get me wrong i like Christian and think he has a bright future. But Joe Webb has come a long ways for being a 6th round pick and he is a weapon when on the field.
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Lil Uno


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was all for letting Ponder work through the growing pains but he isn't progressing. At this point Webb can't be any worse than Ponder. They are both inaccurate passers with an inability to read defenses. Webb does offer playmaking ability as a runner and isn't afraid to sling the ball around. He is going to throw the INTs but I think he can make lot passes Ponder can't. With the threat of Peterson and Harvin, Webb doesn't have to be great just competent.
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