| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
HighHopes
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 25334
Location: Courtroom
|
 Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 1:19 am Post subject: |
 |
|
|
Id prefer to just keep Webb and develop him. He could be a great back up QB.
Or even vice versa if he surpasses Ponder.
_________________
XBL/PSN: Chainedsniper |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Purplexing
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 3626
Location: Outside Valhalla, looking in.
|
| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 7:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
| SteelKing728 wrote: | | Purplexing wrote: |
IMO, he should he dangled as trade bait after 2012 to make use of his talent as an athletic player who has no value on the bench.
Sure, the Vikings could wait to see how Ponder develops before trading Webb, like the entire 2012 season. But I'm not even sure the Vikings would ride with Webb in 2013 and going forward if Ponder flounders in 2012.
Ideally, if Ponder pans out in 2012, Webb can be traded to move up for a top WR or DT in round 1, or to do the same in round 2, to add either a WR or DT, depending on which of the two is taken in round 1. |
Well, I think if we even consider trading him, it should be mid season, around week 7-8 (the trade deadline has been moved back to week 8 now-new rules)
I'm not totally up for the idea, but lets say we are sitting at week 8 with a 4-4 and 5-3 record, and Christian Ponder is playing some good football, without being injured? By then a team is in desperate need for a QB and is willing to overtrade for one (See: Oakland Raiders, 2011). If a team offered a 3rd round pick in this scenario, I'd be all over it.
We would then have 10 picks in the draft, and that extra 3rd and 4th could be all it takes to move up in the draft if we find a guy we like.
Like I said, I'm not totally for the idea because I do like Joe Webb, but if he's expandable at a nice price, I'd make the move. I'd do it for the better of this football team. |
Trading Webb after the 2012 season was my idea, but I would be open to trading him mid-season if Ponder shows consistency, efficiency and effectiveness leading up to that point.
A rookie QB should be added to the Practice Squad to make it work, i.e. in case Ponder were injured later and Rosenfels were also injured.
I see 2012 as a rebuilding year, so the loss of the starting QB to an injury is not as big a concern as when the team has a chance of making the playoffs. If Ponder failed, or were injured, the Vikings would finish the 2012 season in a position to take a top QB in the 2013 draft.
A mid-season trade of Webb assumes an injury to a starter on another team in the playoff race, and that team values Webb for their offensive scheme. Those are two slim possibilities alone, and slimmer when combined.
_________________
When we stop to think about it, most folks behavior isn't perplexing after all. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vike daddy
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 66652
|
| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 9:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Purplexing wrote: | | I see 2012 as a rebuilding year, so the loss of the starting QB to an injury is not as big a concern as when the team has a chance of making the playoffs. |
why? why compare our needed growth to a playoff bound team, that's not our situation so not relevant.
how do you rebuild a team and build chemistry with new players if your #1 QB is not available? if you are fortunate enough to have a #2 QB, like we do in Webb, who has actual game experience and a rapport with the coaches, your chances of rebuilding increase.
_________________
| Webmaster wrote: | | Can we knock off all the nonsense and stick to football? |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SteelKing728
Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 10876
Location: Pittsburgh
|
| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 9:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
| vike daddy wrote: | | SteelKing728 wrote: | lets say we are sitting at week 8 with a 4-4 and 5-3 record, and Christian Ponder is playing some good football, without being injured? By then a team is in desperate need for a QB and is willing to overtrade for one (See: Oakland Raiders, 2011). If a team offered a 3rd round pick in this scenario, I'd be all over it.
We would then have 10 picks in the draft, and that extra 3rd and 4th could be all it takes to move up in the draft if we find a guy we like. |
sigh... the Madden generation. 
so in this scenario, except if Ponder breaks a leg, we'd have Sage Rosenfels as our starting QB, who hasn't played in a NFL game in what, 3-4 years?
but hey we could use that 3rd round pick to draft a backup QB. where's the gain?
| SteelKing728 wrote: | | if he's expandable at a nice price, I'd make the move. |
is Joe gaining weight? |
expendable.
and just in case your wondering, I brought it up as a scenario. In no way does that mean I support it, but its an idea (most people get caught up in this stuff because its so radical, more open minded)
Yeah, lets say if Ponder would get injured after trading Webb for a mid round pick, we have Sage. He has expierence, he can mentor, but he hasn't played much in awhile, but I think its a risk worth taking. We did build up our Oline this season (the addition of 1 player helped out 2 spots) and Christian isn't a sitting duck out there.
Like I said before, if we traded Webb, I wouldn't like it because I like him as a QB, and he is a very solid #2 QB, but If we could get value for him, then I won't be mad about it.
If you don't believe teams think about this (let alone do it), look at the Packers and the Matt Flynn situation, and who they're backup QB is now.
_________________
Thanks Jamison on that avi.
2013 Adopt a Minnesota Viking - Jared Allen - DE - #69 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vike daddy
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 66652
|
| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 1:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| SteelKing728 wrote: | | lets say if Ponder would get injured after trading Webb for a mid round pick, we have Sage. He has expierence, he can mentor, but he hasn't played much in awhile, but I think its a risk worth taking. |
haven't you in other threads called out Sage for being worthless and a joke?
| SteelKing728 wrote: | | If you don't believe teams think about this (let alone do it), look at the Packers and the Matt Flynn situation, and who they're backup QB is now. |
whaaaat??!
Flynn wasn't traded, and that's what we're talking about here - trading Joe Webb.
_________________
| Webmaster wrote: | | Can we knock off all the nonsense and stick to football? |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kellerman
Joined: 16 May 2010
Posts: 3194
Location: Amsterdam
|
| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 1:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
I don't think we should trade Webb, because I think he's worth more to us than to other teams.
As for the back-up QB, in the future I'd like to have the first two QB's be the same type, that way the system doesn't have to change much. Webb and Ponder are too different as QB's in my mind, and I don't believe in the concept of a ''change-of-pace QB''.
_________________
sig by Jamison
#97 Everson Griffin: 0 tackles : 0 sacks : 0 FF |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HighHopes
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 25334
Location: Courtroom
|
| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 3:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Kellerman wrote: | I don't think we should trade Webb, because I think he's worth more to us than to other teams.
As for the back-up QB, in the future I'd like to have the first two QB's be the same type, that way the system doesn't have to change much. Webb and Ponder are too different as QB's in my mind, and I don't believe in the concept of a ''change-of-pace QB''. |
Really? I actually think the complete opposite as you? I mean its not like a faster QB throws all that different from a slower QB. But I do think just having that speed makes defenses more on edge to stop the QB run.
_________________
XBL/PSN: Chainedsniper |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SteelKing728
Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 10876
Location: Pittsburgh
|
| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 3:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| vike daddy wrote: | | SteelKing728 wrote: | | lets say if Ponder would get injured after trading Webb for a mid round pick, we have Sage. He has expierence, he can mentor, but he hasn't played much in awhile, but I think its a risk worth taking. |
haven't you in other threads called out Sage for being worthless and a joke?
| SteelKing728 wrote: | | If you don't believe teams think about this (let alone do it), look at the Packers and the Matt Flynn situation, and who they're backup QB is now. |
whaaaat??!
Flynn wasn't traded, and that's what we're talking about here - trading Joe Webb. |
I did what I had to do to pimp Tarvaris Jackson. Sage did kinda look like a clown out there in preseason. I joked alot about the Rosencopter thing, like others did. Still, he's better than no one. Clearly the Vikings wouldn't resign Sage if they believed he was useless.
and there was plenty of speculation by the fans and media that Greenbay would trade Flynn, am I correct? Greenbay very well could have traded him, right? The guy behind him (Harrell?) has no expierence. They were taking a risk, kinda like Minnesota would be taking a risk with Rosenfels if we traded Webb and soon after Ponder got injured. A roll of the dice.
But since a trade didn't actually happen, we could review the Matt Cassel trade, I'd say it worked for them, atleast in the short term.
I don't know what the right move is with Webb, but I think trading him is an option.
_________________
Thanks Jamison on that avi.
2013 Adopt a Minnesota Viking - Jared Allen - DE - #69 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kellerman
Joined: 16 May 2010
Posts: 3194
Location: Amsterdam
|
| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 3:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| HighHopes wrote: | | Kellerman wrote: | I don't think we should trade Webb, because I think he's worth more to us than to other teams.
As for the back-up QB, in the future I'd like to have the first two QB's be the same type, that way the system doesn't have to change much. Webb and Ponder are too different as QB's in my mind, and I don't believe in the concept of a ''change-of-pace QB''. |
Really? I actually think the complete opposite as you? I mean its not like a faster QB throws all that different from a slower QB. But I do think just having that speed makes defenses more on edge to stop the QB run. |
It's about playing styles and skills. Webb is a dangerous runner in broken field, while Ponder is a west-coast QB who relies on accuracy and timing. It's not feasible to install two different offensive systems, so ideally you want your #1 and #2 QB to be able to run the same offense effectively.
A guy like Webb would fit more with a Newton/Tebow/Vick type of QB. You might have some limited succes by suddenly introducing a running QB, but if your starter goes down, you are suddenly stuck with an offense playbook that doesn't really fit your QB.
_________________
sig by Jamison
#97 Everson Griffin: 0 tackles : 0 sacks : 0 FF |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Klomp
Joined: 11 Aug 2011
Posts: 3424
Location: The Home of Schwan's Ice Cream
|
| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 4:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Kellerman wrote: |
It's about playing styles and skills. Webb is a dangerous runner in broken field, while Ponder is a west-coast QB who relies on accuracy and timing. It's not feasible to install two different offensive systems, so ideally you want your #1 and #2 QB to be able to run the same offense effectively.
A guy like Webb would fit more with a Newton/Tebow/Vick type of QB. You might have some limited succes by suddenly introducing a running QB, but if your starter goes down, you are suddenly stuck with an offense playbook that doesn't really fit your QB. |
Ponder may not be Webb out there, but don't act like he's got Peyton Manning speed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdbGDZxKZIs |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ArcticNorseman
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 1432
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
|
| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 4:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
The commentary made about Webb focusing on just being a QB was made at the start of this week's rookie camp, and it did re-inforce previous comments made by Fraizer after last season.
The fact is Ponder and Webb have both sat down with the coaching staff and been told who's doing what, and from the players' comments to the media the past four days, it's easy to see they both know what's expected of them. Kudos to Webb for falling in line and not voicing displeasure or acting immaturely about the confirmation of his position -- in fact it's not a demotion, rather a statement, "Be ready Joe, be ready -- you're next in line."
I like Webb and he seems genuinely happy about his position. I also like the fact he knew, although his physical skill-set is impressive, that he had years of growing into the mold of an NFL-ready QB.
I wouldn't trade either Ponder or Webb . . . because quite frankly, I don't think Sage is the guy to carry the team if the injury bug hits the team.
I'm looking forward to Ponder leading the team as the starting QB -- for the entire season. However and not wishing ill-will by any means, Webb is one hit from being in position to become the next Tom Brady. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
heydudemanG
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 2922
Location: Minneapolis
|
| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 4:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Klomp wrote: | | Kellerman wrote: |
It's about playing styles and skills. Webb is a dangerous runner in broken field, while Ponder is a west-coast QB who relies on accuracy and timing. It's not feasible to install two different offensive systems, so ideally you want your #1 and #2 QB to be able to run the same offense effectively.
A guy like Webb would fit more with a Newton/Tebow/Vick type of QB. You might have some limited succes by suddenly introducing a running QB, but if your starter goes down, you are suddenly stuck with an offense playbook that doesn't really fit your QB. |
Ponder may not be Webb out there, but don't act like he's got Peyton Manning speed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdbGDZxKZIs |
Oh my god after watching that video I'm so happy we got Khalil our offensive line was so bad and it's just been getting worse. Khalil was a no brainer. Our offensive line needs to step it up. I don't care if it's coaching personnel or what but you win and lose football games in the tranches and we need those guys to get a push out there for our super stars.
_________________
Down with the conflict and it's crucial
To all you haters the feel's are mutual |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kellerman
Joined: 16 May 2010
Posts: 3194
Location: Amsterdam
|
| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 4:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Klomp wrote: | | Kellerman wrote: |
It's about playing styles and skills. Webb is a dangerous runner in broken field, while Ponder is a west-coast QB who relies on accuracy and timing. It's not feasible to install two different offensive systems, so ideally you want your #1 and #2 QB to be able to run the same offense effectively.
A guy like Webb would fit more with a Newton/Tebow/Vick type of QB. You might have some limited succes by suddenly introducing a running QB, but if your starter goes down, you are suddenly stuck with an offense playbook that doesn't really fit your QB. |
Ponder may not be Webb out there, but don't act like he's got Peyton Manning speed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdbGDZxKZIs |
Playing style/skills
I know Ponder is a very quick guy, and the most athletic starting QB in the NFC North, but he is not/was never a running QB. Webb is half RB/half QB. Webb breaks tackles in open field play, Ponder doesn't.
_________________
sig by Jamison
#97 Everson Griffin: 0 tackles : 0 sacks : 0 FF |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Klomp
Joined: 11 Aug 2011
Posts: 3424
Location: The Home of Schwan's Ice Cream
|
| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 5:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Kellerman wrote: | | Klomp wrote: | | Kellerman wrote: |
It's about playing styles and skills. Webb is a dangerous runner in broken field, while Ponder is a west-coast QB who relies on accuracy and timing. It's not feasible to install two different offensive systems, so ideally you want your #1 and #2 QB to be able to run the same offense effectively.
A guy like Webb would fit more with a Newton/Tebow/Vick type of QB. You might have some limited succes by suddenly introducing a running QB, but if your starter goes down, you are suddenly stuck with an offense playbook that doesn't really fit your QB. |
Ponder may not be Webb out there, but don't act like he's got Peyton Manning speed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdbGDZxKZIs |
Playing style/skills
I know Ponder is a very quick guy, and the most athletic starting QB in the NFC North, but he is not/was never a running QB. Webb is half RB/half QB. Webb breaks tackles in open field play, Ponder doesn't. |
OK, my apologies. I guess I was focusing more on the part where you said "Webb is a dangerous runner in broken field, while Ponder is a west-coast QB who relies on accuracy and timing" and came to the wrong conclusion. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kellerman
Joined: 16 May 2010
Posts: 3194
Location: Amsterdam
|
| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 5:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Klomp wrote: | | Kellerman wrote: | | Klomp wrote: | | Kellerman wrote: |
It's about playing styles and skills. Webb is a dangerous runner in broken field, while Ponder is a west-coast QB who relies on accuracy and timing. It's not feasible to install two different offensive systems, so ideally you want your #1 and #2 QB to be able to run the same offense effectively.
A guy like Webb would fit more with a Newton/Tebow/Vick type of QB. You might have some limited succes by suddenly introducing a running QB, but if your starter goes down, you are suddenly stuck with an offense playbook that doesn't really fit your QB. |
Ponder may not be Webb out there, but don't act like he's got Peyton Manning speed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdbGDZxKZIs |
Playing style/skills
I know Ponder is a very quick guy, and the most athletic starting QB in the NFC North, but he is not/was never a running QB. Webb is half RB/half QB. Webb breaks tackles in open field play, Ponder doesn't. |
OK, my apologies. I guess I was focusing more on the part where you said "Webb is a dangerous runner in broken field, while Ponder is a west-coast QB who relies on accuracy and timing" and came to the wrong conclusion. |
No problem.
_________________
sig by Jamison
#97 Everson Griffin: 0 tackles : 0 sacks : 0 FF |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
