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twslhs20
Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 9090
Location: Where the true depth of one's soul doesn't resonate with the world
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 Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| PrplChilPill wrote: | | twslhs20 wrote: | | I watch a ton of KC games being from the area. Bowe is straight trash. They are calling him Mr. Garbage Time here because he only shows up when the game is out of reach. I'd rather take a guy in the 2nd who is younger, than a 28 year old selfish player. |
Funny, that's exactly what they said about Jared Allen in Kc also.
You really think a 2nd round pick will be as productive next year as a veteran WR?
And, to be clear, in my original post on signing free agents, I never mentioned Bowe once, my point remains that if this team wins 8 or 9 games, they should sign 1-2 free agents that can make an impact, to get over the hump while Allen and AP are healthy. |
I was all for the JA trade. The dude was getting double digit sacks on a line with no help while being double and triple teamed. He was far an away their best defensive player. Bowe isn't even in the same league as Allen.
Apples to raisins
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PrplChilPill
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 7796
Location: SLP, MN
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Freakout wrote: | I would actually rank a new linebacker ahead of CB. Whether it is a MLB or WLB we need a guy that can play coverage and be out there with Greenway on the nickle packages. One of our biggest problems is getting off the field in 3rd and long. Linebacker play is big part of that. Plus you can find nickle CB's later in the draft pretty easily. Robinson and Cook look perfectly capable on the outside.
WR / UT - Both are equally important. One is easier to find than the other. I like Kevin Williams but he is not disruptive like he once was.
LB - With so much nickle being ran you absolutely have to be able to cover. Neither Henderson or Brinkley can.
FS/SS - I do not want to make Harrison have to always play deep because Sanford cannot cover and I don't want him always in the box because Raymond cannot tackle. Having interchangeable Safeties is hell on a Quarterback, never knowing which is blitzing or dropping back.
OG - I put this ahead of CB because it affects Ponder's performance. When he gets happy feet and starts rolling out or running for his life he is cutting off half the field. Even with a new WR that is just going to kill his percentages.
CB - As I said above, I have this last simply because I don't see the value of drafting a nickle corner high in the draft. |
Disagree, why even play two linebackers on 3rd and long? Play a safety or CB. I also don't get how people are so sure about Robinson and even Cook after 4 games. They need defensive backs more than linebackers, wait until Chicago and GB play the Vikings, you'll see it too.
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thestonedkoala
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3799
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| I just think our depth at linebacker is shallow and it'll show. We don't have a legitimate 3 down guy. We have a lot of rotational guys. We also have no leader. I would love to have a defensive core with a Ed Reed (Smith) and a Ray Lewis (Te'O?). |
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vikingsrule
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 39466
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| thestonedkoala wrote: | | I just think our depth at linebacker is shallow and it'll show. We don't have a legitimate 3 down guy. We have a lot of rotational guys. We also have no leader. I would love to have a defensive core with a Ed Reed (Smith) and a Ray Lewis (Te'O?). |
Greenway has been a good 3 down LB for the Vikes this year. I do agree, MN needs one more 3 down LB. I am not sure if either Brinkley or Henderson are 3 down LBs, so I dont know if MN needs to choose to keep one and find a permanent starter or if one of these two players can improve to be that guy.
Bottom line, MN doesnt need to invest much in more than 2 LBs. As we saw lat week, the third LB only played 10 snaps vs the third CB playing 50 snaps. Just the way when you play teams with great QBs.
Question is, can Te'O excel in coverage. I would hate to see another slow lumbering MLB for this defense. Give me speed, range and explosiveness |
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CriminalMind
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
Posts: 2962
Location: Toronto, CA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| vikingsrule wrote: |
Bottom line, MN doesnt need to invest much in more than 2 LBs. As we saw lat week, the third LB only played 10 snaps vs the third CB playing 50 snaps. Just the way when you play teams with great QBs.
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That quite a big stat.
From watching I noticed the 3rd CB far more then the 3rd LB, but didnt realize the margin was so great.
If Winfield does not return, that "3rd CB" sees plenty of time due to a) our system b) how the offense is called now.
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Freakout
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 1765
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| PrplChilPill wrote: | | Freakout wrote: | I would actually rank a new linebacker ahead of CB. Whether it is a MLB or WLB we need a guy that can play coverage and be out there with Greenway on the nickle packages. One of our biggest problems is getting off the field in 3rd and long. Linebacker play is big part of that. Plus you can find nickle CB's later in the draft pretty easily. Robinson and Cook look perfectly capable on the outside.
WR / UT - Both are equally important. One is easier to find than the other. I like Kevin Williams but he is not disruptive like he once was.
LB - With so much nickle being ran you absolutely have to be able to cover. Neither Henderson or Brinkley can.
FS/SS - I do not want to make Harrison have to always play deep because Sanford cannot cover and I don't want him always in the box because Raymond cannot tackle. Having interchangeable Safeties is hell on a Quarterback, never knowing which is blitzing or dropping back.
OG - I put this ahead of CB because it affects Ponder's performance. When he gets happy feet and starts rolling out or running for his life he is cutting off half the field. Even with a new WR that is just going to kill his percentages.
CB - As I said above, I have this last simply because I don't see the value of drafting a nickle corner high in the draft. |
Disagree, why even play two linebackers on 3rd and long? Play a safety or CB. I also don't get how people are so sure about Robinson and even Cook after 4 games. They need defensive backs more than linebackers, wait until Chicago and GB play the Vikings, you'll see it too. |
Same reason most teams use two. You don't want a safety or corner being matched up on a bigger player (Tight End) when all they need after the catch to pick up a first down is 3 or 4 yards.
As a opponent would you want a safety, corner, or linebacker to bring down Adrian Peterson after he received a pass and only needed 3 yards for a first down?
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vikingsrule
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 39466
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| CriminalMind wrote: | | vikingsrule wrote: |
Bottom line, MN doesnt need to invest much in more than 2 LBs. As we saw lat week, the third LB only played 10 snaps vs the third CB playing 50 snaps. Just the way when you play teams with great QBs.
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That quite a big stat.
From watching I noticed the 3rd CB far more then the 3rd LB, but didnt realize the margin was so great.
If Winfield does not return, that "3rd CB" sees plenty of time due to a) our system b) how the offense is called now. |
It will obviously change from week to week. When you play a team like Detroit, your basically going to be playing nickel all game long. As we saw when MN played SF or Jax, there was a pretty even split between nickel CB and third LB snaps.
I see more value in getting three above average CBs than I do three above average LBs. |
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JDBrocks
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 4805
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:45 am Post subject: |
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If you had to chose between Te'o and Greenway, Te'o would win every time. Watch him play this year. Early on I considered him a 3-4 inside thumper. Watching him in coverage this year he is everywhere on the field. I was high on Keuchly last year, and higher on Te'o this year.
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CriminalMind
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
Posts: 2962
Location: Toronto, CA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| JDBrocks wrote: | | If you had to chose between Te'o and Greenway, Te'o would win every time. Watch him play this year. Early on I considered him a 3-4 inside thumper. Watching him in coverage this year he is everywhere on the field. I was high on Keuchly last year, and higher on Te'o this year. |
I think this is an unfair direct comparison.
Are you comparing prime Greenway to prime Te'o?
Current/Future Greenway to current/future Teo.
Its not like if we drafted Te'o, he would be replacing Greenway now anyway.
The question should be is the upgrade we achieve from Te'o over Henderson/Brinkley/Cole, greater then the upgrade we would achieve from adding a #1WR or starting DT (to replace K-Will).
If K-Will is not retained and we unfortunately get no one of interest in FA.
Letroy-Ballard-Evans is our core unit. Doesn't sound sufficent to me.
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Kellerman
Joined: 16 May 2010
Posts: 3165
Location: Amsterdam
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| CriminalMind wrote: | | JDBrocks wrote: | | If you had to chose between Te'o and Greenway, Te'o would win every time. Watch him play this year. Early on I considered him a 3-4 inside thumper. Watching him in coverage this year he is everywhere on the field. I was high on Keuchly last year, and higher on Te'o this year. |
The question should be is the upgrade we achieve from Te'o over Henderson/Brinkley/Cole, greater then the upgrade we would achieve from adding a #1WR or starting DT (to replace K-Will).. |
This. Te'o is not even on my radar right now. Wide reciever is our biggest need by a mile, followed by defensive tackle. Even on defense, I'd rank safety as a bigger need than linebacker right now.
I wouldn't be opposed to using a 3rd or 4th round pick on an athletic linebacker with coverage skills, but I don't see the point in using a high pick on a linebacker, when we have a decent crop of guys there (Greenway, Henderson, Brinkley, Cole, Mitchell).
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PrplChilPill
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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Location: SLP, MN
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:09 am Post subject: |
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I would rather a safety cover a tight end, to decrease the chance of a catch, and take the chance on the tackle.
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disaacs
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 19963
Location: Brownbackistan
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:54 am Post subject: |
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I perfectly understand the need for a DT (I think I've been saying that for a couple of years now), but this will probably be the deepest class of DTs we've seen in a few years, if everyone comes out that should be. There's no sense in requiring that they take a DT in the 1st, when there probably won't much of a drop-off from the 1st to the 2nd. Unless one of the absolutely top-tier DTs are available at the Vikings' pick, I don't see a need to necessarily take a DT first. That's why I'd have WR and LB as my top 2 needs.
I know some sites have Robert Woods now projected as the Vikings' top pick...but, as always, I tend to shy away from USC WRs. I'd rather go elsewhere.
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[UMN]
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 11821
Location: Desolation Row
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| PrplChilPill wrote: | | I would rather a safety cover a tight end, to decrease the chance of a catch, and take the chance on the tackle. |
I have a feeling teams are going to start using S/LB hybrids as their SLB to help cover TE's. Someone like Kenny Tate who is 6'4" but can cover like a safety will be a hot commodity.
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| Swift924 wrote: | | If Vikings win more than 7 games. Ill buy every Viking fan here lunch |
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[UMN]
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 11821
Location: Desolation Row
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| disaacs wrote: | | I know some sites have Robert Woods now projected as the Vikings' top pick...but, as always, I tend to shy away from USC WRs. I'd rather go elsewhere. |
Nothing about Woods really impresses me. He seems to be a less athletic Percy Harvin. His main asset is catching short passes and running, but he doesn't have the same explosion that Percy does.
I don't think he would be a very good fit for this team, in terms of what type of WR they need to add.
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| Swift924 wrote: | | If Vikings win more than 7 games. Ill buy every Viking fan here lunch |
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vikingsrule
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 39466
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| [UMN] wrote: | | disaacs wrote: | | I know some sites have Robert Woods now projected as the Vikings' top pick...but, as always, I tend to shy away from USC WRs. I'd rather go elsewhere. |
Nothing about Woods really impresses me. He seems to be a less athletic Percy Harvin. His main asset is catching short passes and running, but he doesn't have the same explosion that Percy does.
I don't think he would be a very good fit for this team, in terms of what type of WR they need to add. |
Not a fan of Woods, he doesnt fit that mold of 6-1+ and I havent been particularly impressed with his down field skills. If were spending a first round pick, they cant be a possession guy. Wont really help the offense. Same reason why I didnt want Blackmon, though I think Woods is a much more explosive and better overall prospect than Blackmon.
Keenan Allen, Terrence Williams or Justin Hunter seem more the ideal WR if MN looks at a round 1 WR. I am not particularly impressed with this years WR class at the top end, doesnt seem like there is much depth in round 1. Though that could change. Might be better off putting off the needs until round 2 or 3. |
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