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Andre Johnson to miss OTAs following knee surgery
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EliteTexan80


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 1:59 pm    Post subject: Andre Johnson to miss OTAs following knee surgery Reply with quote

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/19113337/andre-johnson-gets-knee-scoped-says-hell-be-ready-by-texans-training-camp

Quote:
As multiple reports out of Houston stated Monday, Johnson is not participating in Texans OTAs after undergoing arthroscopic knee surgery earlier this month.


Hmm. Said he hyper extended it in the Jags game (his first game back from the first hammy injury, IIRC). While I'm confident that he should be back in time for Training Camp, I have to wonder: Is this the beginning of the end for AJ? These injuries have been coming in droves for him...I doubt he would of been in OTAs to begin with, as Schaub was going to sit this one out, and there are several young WRs who need all the reps that they can get - but the rash of injuries to AJ is pretty alarming.

Are we seeing the dreaded decline from one of the best WRs in the NFL? If so...we've proven that we can win without him, but who steps up amongst our young guys?
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Marco79


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When he is healthy he is still dominant. It is not like his skills are diminishing. He just needs to stay healthy.
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Marco79


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
With Andre Johnson (knee scope) resting, Lestar Jean saw first-team action at Texans OTA practice on Monday.
Coach Gary Kubiak confirmed that Jean has an "excellent opportunity" to earn a spot in Houston's three-wide offense. A 2011 camp and preseason star, Jean is getting the first crack to replace Jacoby Jones, ahead of rookies Keshawn Martin and DeVier Posey. Johnson and Kevin Walter will be the Texans' starters.


Interesting...
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CAS22


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marco79 wrote:
Quote:
With Andre Johnson (knee scope) resting, Lestar Jean saw first-team action at Texans OTA practice on Monday.
Coach Gary Kubiak confirmed that Jean has an "excellent opportunity" to earn a spot in Houston's three-wide offense. A 2011 camp and preseason star, Jean is getting the first crack to replace Jacoby Jones, ahead of rookies Keshawn Martin and DeVier Posey. Johnson and Kevin Walter will be the Texans' starters.


Interesting...

I think the coaches really like Jean. He looks the part, now he just needs to take advantage of a prime opportunity.
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EliteTexan80


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marco79 wrote:
When he is healthy he is still dominant. It is not like his skills are diminishing. He just needs to stay healthy.


That's the rub. You're starting to see a rash of injuries to his legs, ones that tend to linger...even after surgery. He had the procedure done to his right hammy, had the left knee scoped...I am hoping that the procedure doesn't lend itself to putting too much focus on that right leg, because that could lead to further complications to the right leg.

I agree with you - when he's healthy, he's on his game. Heck, even with two bad hammys and a bad left knee, he still put in some good work against Baltimore and Cincy in the playoffs. However, are these injuries going to become comminplace for a 30+ WR, regardless of how he rehabs?

I'm slightly worried. Not ready to press the panic button (wouldn't even if AJ missed the whole season, TBH, we proved we can operate w/o him at times last year) but...well, the depth at WR is full of young guys, and Kevin Walter is the only guy on roster to see meaningful snaps in game situations. Would I trust a lineup of Walter/Jean/Posey/Martin/Jones?

No, not in the least.
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DreDay80


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've proven we could win without him? That's news to me. The teams we beat were average at best with most of them being garbage. We aren't beating any elite teams without Andre in the lineup. Our defense needs to prove that they aren't a one-season wonder before we can be confident in our team with Andre in and out of the lineup. Our run game isn't gonna carry us when we run into elite defenses and as good as Schaub is Kevin Walter as your #1 isn't gonna get you anywhere. We NEED Andre especially since we didn't really address the receiver position.
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EliteTexan80


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DreDay80 wrote:
We've proven we could win without him?

Um...yeah. You miss last season where we won seven games without him?

Quote:
The teams we beat were average at best with most of them being garbage.

Three of those seven were playoff teams. Amongst the four that didn't make the playoffs were the Titans who were neck and neck with us for the division at the time we played them, and we put 41 on 'em in that game.

Quote:
We aren't beating any elite teams without Andre in the lineup.

Again - we beat three playoff teams without him in the lineup. Not to mention, it's not like we get to pick the schedule at any given moment. We play the teams that are scheduled, and that is all we can do. Luckily, we have six games against teams that are nowhere near elite in Tenn, Jax and Indy...and while we have some tough matchups against the likes of Green Bay, New England and Detroit, it isn't as if these teams had great pass defenses, regardless if you're throwing to AJ or anyone else.

Yes, AJ gives us a greater chance to win, but it isn't as if all is lost if he's NOT there.

Quote:
Our defense needs to prove that they aren't a one-season wonder before we can be confident in our team with Andre in and out of the lineup.

You said it the best. Regardless if AJ is in OR out, we need to be assured the D is going to show up and play like they did last season. AJ has proven he can be at the top of his game, and without a proper D in place, that is only going to lead to 8-8 seasons. We've seen this TOO many times with this team.

AJ can put up all the numbers in the world...if the D doesn't show up, it means nothing.

Quote:
Our run game isn't gonna carry us when we run into elite defenses

You sorely underestimate our run game.

Miami Dolphins: 3rd ranked rush D (Tate: 23/103)
Pittsburgh Steelers: 8th ranked rush D (Foster: 30/155)
Baltimore Ravens: 2nd ranked rush D (Foster: 27/132*)
Jacksonville Jaguars: 9th ranked rush D (Foster: 33/112, Tate: 5/42)
Atlanta Falcons: 6th ranked rush D (Foster: 31/111, Tate: 11/41)
Cincinnati Bengals: 10th ranked rush D (Tate: 8/67, Foster: 24/153*)

* = playoff game

We've proven firsthand that we can move the ball on ANYONE. Nine total games against top 10 defenses, and we had at least ONE RB have a good game in it. You can't fake that.


Quote:
and as good as Schaub is Kevin Walter as your #1 isn't gonna get you anywhere. We NEED Andre especially since we didn't really address the receiver position.

I'll concede that the depth at WR scares me, but I am comfy in a heavy passing game revolving around Foster and Owen Daniels. All of these guys stepped up massively when AJ went down, and all of them put in work as whatever QB we trotted out was tasked with throwing the ball.

It hurts to lose AJ, fully agreed - but it would be even worse if we lost someone such as Brian Cushing, Jonathan Joseph, Chris Myers or (to a lesser extent) Matt Schaub. In those instances, we're in a LOT of trouble.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maddening! The season ended on January 15th and he had the surgery in MAY? I can see waiting a month to see if it really needed surgical attention, but May? He pulled this same crap in 2008 coming off a season where he missed 7 games with an injury that was supposed to last 1 week, not 2 months. If you recall we started out 0-4 in 2008 following an offseason where he was a ghost (yes he eventually went on to have a monster season, but we were pretty much out of it having dropped 3 division games + the Steelers in a game where he had good stats but embarassed himself with an alligator arms play in crunch time). If ANY other player pulled this bs we would be calling him out left and right for his lack of commitment especially since he seems to have some excuse every offseason for doing nothing until the real games start. So much for "mentoring" any of our young WRs or developing a comfort level with Beck and Keenum. I can pretty much guarantee his "knee surgery" will be used as an excuse for him to basically do nothing but show up in week 1 of the regular season despite coming off a season where he caught 33 balls and 2 TDs and dropping off to 1,216 yards in 2010 (sure this may sound greedy as that's still good, but I'm sorry if AJ wants to be called one of the best in the game, he needs to be in Calvin Johnson, 1,500+ territory, especially since he rarely loses targets to a #2. Victor Cruz and Wes Welker had 1,500 yards last year folks.) The Texans need to push back on this crap as we still have 4 years and $34 million reasons to demand that he do more than show up in September and flip a switch because he is 2 season removed from successfully doing so for a full season.
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EliteTexan80


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
Maddening! The season ended on January 15th and he had the surgery in MAY? I can see waiting a month to see if it really needed surgical attention, but May?


Not disagreeing with the overall gist of what you're saying, but to comment on this...we don't know the extent of the procedure. We know he got scoped - that could mean that he was repairing some tears in the knee. If this WAS the case, you'd be right and I'd be at a loss as to why it took so long to come to this diagnosis. However...it could of been a "comfort" procedure, something used to shave off some cartilage, or remove some bone spurs - things that don't necessarily have an impact to what you can do, and can be treated with alternate procedures - cortizone/synvisic shots, followed up by rehab and rest. In most cases, if it WAS the latter, this is somewhat standard - attempt to repair the knee with non-invasive treatments, check to see how things have progressed. If there is still discomfort for AJ after the non-invasive procedures, then the doctor will get into the knee to correct the issue and start up the healing process from there.

I'd have to know more about what was done before making a ruling on how this was handled. They advised it was a hyper-extension, which could lead to either a tear, or could be just bone spurs or frayed cartilage. It could of been something that prevented him from playing, or a simple procedure done to make the knee feel better with no major impact to whether or not AJ could perform. Given that he actually played in the playoffs, I'd be willing to bet it's the latter. I mean, AJ could of very well played on a torn meniscus, but I highly doubt it.

One thing to mention: We have a hole at #3 WR, and we have about eight guys going for that spot - Lestar Jean, Jeff Maehl, Terrance Tolliver (I think he's on the roster) DeVier Posey, Keyshawn Martin, Mario Lewis, Dwight Jones and Jerrill Jackson. I think it's important that these guys get as many reps as possible with the ones and twos.

AJ missing OTAs isn't big...but if your hunch is correct and he misses TCs, I am in 100% agreement with you.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EliteTexan80 wrote:
Apollo Stallion wrote:
Maddening! The season ended on January 15th and he had the surgery in MAY? I can see waiting a month to see if it really needed surgical attention, but May?


Not disagreeing with the overall gist of what you're saying, but to comment on this...we don't know the extent of the procedure. We know he got scoped - that could mean that he was repairing some tears in the knee. If this WAS the case, you'd be right and I'd be at a loss as to why it took so long to come to this diagnosis. However...it could of been a "comfort" procedure, something used to shave off some cartilage, or remove some bone spurs - things that don't necessarily have an impact to what you can do, and can be treated with alternate procedures - cortizone/synvisic shots, followed up by rehab and rest. In most cases, if it WAS the latter, this is somewhat standard - attempt to repair the knee with non-invasive treatments, check to see how things have progressed. If there is still discomfort for AJ after the non-invasive procedures, then the doctor will get into the knee to correct the issue and start up the healing process from there.

I'd have to know more about what was done before making a ruling on how this was handled. They advised it was a hyper-extension, which could lead to either a tear, or could be just bone spurs or frayed cartilage. It could of been something that prevented him from playing, or a simple procedure done to make the knee feel better with no major impact to whether or not AJ could perform. Given that he actually played in the playoffs, I'd be willing to bet it's the latter. I mean, AJ could of very well played on a torn meniscus, but I highly doubt it.

One thing to mention: We have a hole at #3 WR, and we have about eight guys going for that spot - Lestar Jean, Jeff Maehl, Terrance Tolliver (I think he's on the roster) DeVier Posey, Keyshawn Martin, Mario Lewis, Dwight Jones and Jerrill Jackson. I think it's important that these guys get as many reps as possible with the ones and twos.

AJ missing OTAs isn't big...but if your hunch is correct and he misses TCs, I am in 100% agreement with you.


I agree that we don't have much info to go on, nor are we likely to get it, but I for one am already concerned about any sense of accomplishment or ambivalence creeping into this offseason. We are already keeping Schaub away (justified), but now AJ seemingly gets his annual pass to show up in September. Going to also be watching Arian Foster who now gets the comfort of a $44 million deal w/$21 million guaranteed and historically RBs do not do well after cashing in, even if we think Arian isn't that type of player. The Texans have backslid every time we were supposedly ready to take the next step after crossing a milestone (2005, 2008, 2010) and we better be guarding against it this time as expectations have never been higher (yes I realize technically 08 was the same record as 07 but 3-7 by Thanksgiving effectively had us out of any playoff discussion in a season where the Titans won the division).

The Bucs and Chiefs both won 10 games in 2010 and had "arrived" only to fall back to earth last year after similar underwhelming offseasons and some injuries. The second we think that can't happen to us is when it does. If I were Kubiak, I would make a very overt statement to the vets on this team that last year already means nothing and work them harder than ever in camp. This doesn't work if the "stars" all get free passes to not work as hard as everyone else (which is why personally I would have waited to cut Jacoby until he screwed up or loafed and use him to get everyone else's attention vs. this nice guy crap that handed him to a primary AFC competitor.
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jch1911


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EliteTexan80 wrote:
One thing to mention: We have a hole at #3 WR, and we have about eight guys going for that spot - Lestar Jean, Jeff Maehl, Terrance Tolliver (I think he's on the roster) DeVier Posey, Keyshawn Martin, Mario Lewis, Dwight Jones and Jerrill Jackson. I think it's important that these guys get as many reps as possible with the ones and twos.

AJ missing OTAs isn't big...but if your hunch is correct and he misses TCs, I am in 100% agreement with you.


I believe Tolliver has taken his talents to the Motor City and is roaring with the Lions.
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DreDay80


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EliteTexan80 wrote:
DreDay80 wrote:
We've proven we could win without him?

Um...yeah. You miss last season where we won seven games without him?

Quote:
The teams we beat were average at best with most of them being garbage.

Three of those seven were playoff teams. Amongst the four that didn't make the playoffs were the Titans who were neck and neck with us for the division at the time we played them, and we put 41 on 'em in that game. The Falcons are as mediocre as you can possibly get and we had Andre in that game for the 1st half. The other two were the Bengals who were 1-8 against teams with a winning record. We haven't proven anything without Andre.

Quote:
We aren't beating any elite teams without Andre in the lineup.

Again - we beat three playoff teams without him in the lineup. Not to mention, it's not like we get to pick the schedule at any given moment. We play the teams that are scheduled, and that is all we can do. Luckily, we have six games against teams that are nowhere near elite in Tenn, Jax and Indy...and while we have some tough matchups against the likes of Green Bay, New England and Detroit, it isn't as if these teams had great pass defenses, regardless if you're throwing to AJ or anyone else.

Yes, AJ gives us a greater chance to win, but it isn't as if all is lost if he's NOT there. We have NO shot against Green Bay and New England without Andre.

Quote:
Our defense needs to prove that they aren't a one-season wonder before we can be confident in our team with Andre in and out of the lineup.

You said it the best. Regardless if AJ is in OR out, we need to be assured the D is going to show up and play like they did last season. AJ has proven he can be at the top of his game, and without a proper D in place, that is only going to lead to 8-8 seasons. We've seen this TOO many times with this team.

AJ can put up all the numbers in the world...if the D doesn't show up, it means nothing.

Quote:
Our run game isn't gonna carry us when we run into elite defenses

You sorely underestimate our run game.

Miami Dolphins: 3rd ranked rush D (Tate: 23/103)
Pittsburgh Steelers: 8th ranked rush D (Foster: 30/155)
Baltimore Ravens: 2nd ranked rush D (Foster: 27/132*)
Jacksonville Jaguars: 9th ranked rush D (Foster: 33/112, Tate: 5/42)
Atlanta Falcons: 6th ranked rush D (Foster: 31/111, Tate: 11/41)
Cincinnati Bengals: 10th ranked rush D (Tate: 8/67, Foster: 24/153*)

* = playoff game

We've proven firsthand that we can move the ball on ANYONE. Nine total games against top 10 defenses, and we had at least ONE RB have a good game in it. You can't fake that.
The rushing game turned a full 360 from the previous meetings against Baltimore and the Bengals in the regular season and what a coincidence that you left them out. Andre turns our running game from good to best in the league.

Quote:
and as good as Schaub is Kevin Walter as your #1 isn't gonna get you anywhere. We NEED Andre especially since we didn't really address the receiver position.

I'll concede that the depth at WR scares me, but I am comfy in a heavy passing game revolving around Foster and Owen Daniels. All of these guys stepped up massively when AJ went down, and all of them put in work as whatever QB we trotted out was tasked with throwing the ball.

It hurts to lose AJ, fully agreed - but it would be even worse if we lost someone such as Brian Cushing, Jonathan Joseph, Chris Myers or (to a lesser extent) Matt Schaub. In those instances, we're in a LOT of trouble.


Andre changes our offense and changes how opposing defenses play us. Losing him is HUGE. We go from Super Bowl contender to fighting for the division. We have NO SHOT at the big dance if Andre isn't in the lineup.
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
Maddening! The season ended on January 15th and he had the surgery in MAY? I can see waiting a month to see if it really needed surgical attention, but May? He pulled this same crap in 2008 coming off a season where he missed 7 games with an injury that was supposed to last 1 week, not 2 months. If you recall we started out 0-4 in 2008 following an offseason where he was a ghost (yes he eventually went on to have a monster season, but we were pretty much out of it having dropped 3 division games + the Steelers in a game where he had good stats but embarassed himself with an alligator arms play in crunch time). If ANY other player pulled this bs we would be calling him out left and right for his lack of commitment especially since he seems to have some excuse every offseason for doing nothing until the real games start. So much for "mentoring" any of our young WRs or developing a comfort level with Beck and Keenum. I can pretty much guarantee his "knee surgery" will be used as an excuse for him to basically do nothing but show up in week 1 of the regular season despite coming off a season where he caught 33 balls and 2 TDs and dropping off to 1,216 yards in 2010 (sure this may sound greedy as that's still good, but I'm sorry if AJ wants to be called one of the best in the game, he needs to be in Calvin Johnson, 1,500+ territory, especially since he rarely loses targets to a #2. Victor Cruz and Wes Welker had 1,500 yards last year folks.) The Texans need to push back on this crap as we still have 4 years and $34 million reasons to demand that he do more than show up in September and flip a switch because he is 2 season removed from successfully doing so for a full season.



First off just because he is not running around in shorts, doesn't mean he can't help our young wide outs. 2nd, its not like our main guys are being drilled with routes right now, theyre taking it easy anyway. Third, he could have been checked by OUR TEAM doctors prior to OTAS and they saw something they did not like, and told him to get it scoped. Bashing our leader on offense because of something like this is crazy talk. I understood the bashing of him when he sucked a few seasons back to start the season, but getting a knee scoped prior to OTAs is crazy, especially since its our team doctors who saw something and made him get it done.

BTW its been 2 weeks since he had it done. His knee started to swell up when he worked out and he got it cleaned. Had no pain then and still has none. Just taking it easy.


AND furthermore, if you all want something to worry about, worry about the fact that he keeps hyper extending the SAME KNEE. This leads to major damage long term and weakens the knee immediately. THAT is a big problem.
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EliteTexan80


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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DreDay80 wrote:
The Falcons are as mediocre as you can possibly get and we had Andre in that game for the 1st half. The other two were the Bengals who were 1-8 against teams with a winning record. We haven't proven anything without Andre.

10-6 last year, 13-3 two years ago is "mediocre" to you? I'll take that any day of the week and twice on Sunday. If you want to typecast that as mediocre, then have at it, but...it's not.

I'll give you that the Bengals are a bit of fluff, but let's not forget that they had a rookie QB, a rookie WR, no run game to speak of, the 9th ranked pass D and the 10th ranked run D. (More on this, seeing that I'm "conveniently" leaving things out...) This isn't a team you waltz in and beat on their home turf; Only teams to beat them AT home were San Fran, Pittsburgh, Baltimore and us. Everyone else they beat, including a undefeated Buffalo team that had just beaten New England the week before.

You can try to build a case about how this Bengals team was overrated, but REALLY look at the time they won and lost these games as opposed to just painting it with a wide swath.

Quote:
We have NO shot against Green Bay and New England without Andre.

KC, Pittsburgh, the NY Giants and the Buffalo Bills didn't have Andre Johnson, and they had no problems beating these teams. Why? Had nothing to do with the WRs these teams had. (In fact, of the five combined losses the Packers and Patriots had, there was only one "impact" performance by a WR, and that would be Hakeem Nicks and his 7/132/2 TD performance in the playoffs against the Packers. The Chiefs beat the Packers, and Leonard Pope was the leading WR for the Chiefs - with two catches for 72 yards).

You don't beat the Packers or the Patriots by trying to go point-for-point with them. We've seen Detroit thry to heave the ball to Calvin Johnson and get a win, and they failed. We saw Miami try to heave the ball to Brandon Marshall - again, nothing. We've seen Drew Brees throw for 400+ yards and 4 TDs - nada.

How do you beat the Packers? How do you beat the Pats? You have to bring the pressure. In the losses, the Packers allowed close to three sacks in each of those games, along with about five QB hits per game. Same with the Pats - three to four sacks in each game, along with several QB hits. You have to hit Tom Brady, you have to hit Aaron Rodgers, you have to force turnovers - none of which Andre Johnson does.

As I said earlier - it's not going to be EASY without AJ. But the gameplan is there, and it's a gameplan that we execute well with our bevy of OLBs and DEs that we have to send at the top two QBs in the NFL. Trying to get into a shootout with these two teams is a surefire way to lose. Calvin Johnson caught 11 passes for 244 yards (which would be a career high for AJ) in the Week 17 game against the Packers, but it meant nothing, as the Lions weren't able to get into the backfield and disrupt the passing game.

So, despite your "riveting" analysis of how the game would go down sans AJ, you're completely wrong.

Quote:
The rushing game turned a full 360 from the previous meetings against Baltimore and the Bengals in the regular season and what a coincidence that you left them out. Andre turns our running game from good to best in the league.

If you're going to accuse me of altering stats to benefit my argument, then at least check the stats before throwing that out. (As you can see, it's a pet peeve of mine). I DID list the Bengals Regular Season game - Ben Tate went for 67 yards on 8 carries in that game, as we abandoned the run game very early and started to throw the ball. It was TJ Yates' first 300 passing game as a pro (against the 9th ranked passing game, WITHOUT AJ to throw to) and while the YPC is respectable for Tate, the Texans got behind early and had to chuck the ball to make a game of it.

If it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside, Ben Tate had 41 yards on 9 carries and Foster had 49 yards on 15 carries in the regular season against the Ravens. Not the typical numbers that a Texans run game is accustomed to, but these ARE the Ravens, the #2 run defense in the NFL. I'd like to think that we more than made up for it in the rubber match. Nonetheless - 90 yards on 24 carries are numbers that other teams would KILL for against the Ravens. We did that, WITHOUT AJ.

Quote:
Andre changes our offense and changes how opposing defenses play us. Losing him is HUGE. We go from Super Bowl contender to fighting for the division. We have NO SHOT at the big dance if Andre isn't in the lineup.

Do you REALLY believe that? Fighting for the division? Against who? The Titans and the RB who is slowed down by his wallet and the desire to be anywhere else but on a football field? The Jags and Blaine friggin Gabbert? The Colts and a rookie QB and a D that has yet to stop ANY RB?

I get it, I love Andre Johnson too. Hell, look at my SN: EliteTexan80. Last I checked, there was only one #80 that played for the Texans in our history. However, saying that we take some drastic fall off of a cliff because AJ isn't in the lineup tells me one of two things about you: You didn't see a single game last season, or you're chose to ignore that we won without the guy.

Sleep well, friend. The Texans have proven to be fine without AJ.
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DreDay80


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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EliteTexan80 wrote:


Sleep well, friend. The Texans have proven to be fine without AJ.


And again how did they prove they could win without him? WE BEAT NOBODY. Falcons are still mediocre, they always do great in the regular season and yet they never get anywhere in the postseason. Judging by the eye test they're mediocre. I already addressed the Bengals with their cakewalk schedule. I want to see us beat a GREAT team without Andre before we can make the assumption we're fine without him. All those blowouts last year against garbage teams were impressive in the way that our defense isn't the defense that will let your QB go Tom Brady on us. What do blowing out teams like the Browns, Bucs, and the mediocre Titans prove? Absolute nothing to me but if it does to you than I'm fine with it. Don't get me wrong we probably are still a playoff team without Andre but we aren't getting far without him. That's all I'm saying, just looking at the big picture.
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