Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

2012 53 man roster discussion/guesses
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> San Francisco 49ers
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
oldman9er


Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 40326
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The pertinent numbers are 37 and 29. I have 37 players as locks and 29 players as bubble, which adds up to 66 players. With 53 roster spots, that leaves 13 players getting cut from that group. It is possible a long-shot could surprise us, but I see the battles coming down to those 29 players on the strong or weak bubble.

How wrong do you think I am?


http://www.ninersnation.com/2012/7/18/3167842/49ers-bubble-watch-locks-bubble-long-shots


Here was mine...

QB - Alex Smith, Colin Kaepernick, Josh Johnson
RB - Frank Gore, Kendall Hunter, Brandon Jacobs, LaMichael James
FB - Bruce Miller

TE - Vernon Davis, Delanie Walker, Nate Byham
SE - Randy Moss, Mario Manningham
FL - Michael Crabtree, A.J. Jenkins
SL - Kyle Williams, Ted Ginn Jr.

LT - Joe Staley, Mike Person
LG - Mike Iupati
OC - Jon Goodwin, Daniel Kilgore
RG - Alex Boone, Joe Looney
RT - Anthony Davis

RE - Justin Smith, Demarcus Dobbs
NT - Isaac Sopoaga, Ricky Jean-Francois
LE - Ray McDonald, Will Tukuafu

WLB - Aldon Smith, Parys Haralson
MLB - Navarro Bowman, Tavares Gooden
MLB - Patrick Willis, Larry Grant
SLB - Ahmad Brooks, Cam Johnson

LCB - Carlos Rogers
RCB - Tarell Brown, Tramaine Brock
NCB - Chris Culliver, Perrish Cox

FS - Dashon Goldson, C.J. Spillman, Trenton Robinson
SS - Donte Whitner, Colin Jones

LS - Brian Jennings
K - Davis Akers
P - Andy Lee

Which leaves ONE more spot open for one more player... OL? Ian Williams? Konrad Reuland? Cory Nelms?
____________________________________________________________
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Forge


Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 7274
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I the only one who is beginning to think that ginns job may not be the safest? In my opinion, if we have someone to return punts, he could be gone. Hunter did an okay job returning kicks last year, and didn't James return some punts in college (and doesn't cox have experience back there too?) Ginn brings nothing to the table as a wide out, and all I keep hearing is rave reviews about this palmer kid (and not just from Harbaugh who is prone to effusive praise) . If we work out James to return punts with hunter and James or hunter and Jenkins to return kicks, I don't see what ginn brings to the table. The question would be whether ginns value returning over those guys is greater than palmers value in the receiving game over ginn (I also think Williams is a lock to make the roster, which is why I was wondering if ginn is the lock everyone assumes he is)
_________________


Two in harmony surpasses one in perfection - P3
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
49ersfan


Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 6743
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forge wrote:
Am I the only one who is beginning to think that ginns job may not be the safest? In my opinion, if we have someone to return punts, he could be gone. Hunter did an okay job returning kicks last year, and didn't James return some punts in college (and doesn't cox have experience back there too?) Ginn brings nothing to the table as a wide out, and all I keep hearing is rave reviews about this palmer kid (and not just from Harbaugh who is prone to effusive praise) . If we work out James to return punts with hunter and James or hunter and Jenkins to return kicks, I don't see what ginn brings to the table. The question would be whether ginns value returning over those guys is greater than palmers value in the receiving game over ginn (I also think Williams is a lock to make the roster, which is why I was wondering if ginn is the lock everyone assumes he is)


49ers let him walk in FA for a week and only signed him to a 1 year deal. And i've been a Palmer fan since May so i figured this was a possibility. So yes i agree with you he's not guaranteed to make the roster. Although i think him and KW will be battling for a spot. Ginn is a much better returner and their WR production was actually pretty similar last year, but Williams has more upside as a WR.

If hypothetically Palmer earns a spot and Ginn/Williams are equal as receivers, i think i would take Ginn.
_________________
-Not taking this off until the 49ers win #6
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Psychlone


Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 3946
Location: Marin County, CA.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

49ersfan wrote:
Forge wrote:
Am I the only one who is beginning to think that ginns job may not be the safest? In my opinion, if we have someone to return punts, he could be gone. Hunter did an okay job returning kicks last year, and didn't James return some punts in college (and doesn't cox have experience back there too?) Ginn brings nothing to the table as a wide out, and all I keep hearing is rave reviews about this palmer kid (and not just from Harbaugh who is prone to effusive praise) . If we work out James to return punts with hunter and James or hunter and Jenkins to return kicks, I don't see what ginn brings to the table. The question would be whether ginns value returning over those guys is greater than palmers value in the receiving game over ginn (I also think Williams is a lock to make the roster, which is why I was wondering if ginn is the lock everyone assumes he is)


49ers let him walk in FA for a week and only signed him to a 1 year deal. And i've been a Palmer fan since May so i figured this was a possibility. So yes i agree with you he's not guaranteed to make the roster. Although i think him and KW will be battling for a spot. Ginn is a much better returner and their WR production was actually pretty similar last year, but Williams has more upside as a WR.

If hypothetically Palmer earns a spot and Ginn/Williams are equal as receivers, i think i would take Ginn.
I'd say forget about what "position" Ginn plays in determining if he makes the cut or not. Ginn is an elite returner IMO and should be retained solely for that reason. ST's played a huge role last year (both wins and THE loss) so let's not marginalize the unit for depth elsewhere. But if we had to to dump someone, let it be Cartright who is also here just for ST's as well.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SoCalNiner


Moderator
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 23298
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

49ersfan wrote:
Forge wrote:
Am I the only one who is beginning to think that ginns job may not be the safest? In my opinion, if we have someone to return punts, he could be gone. Hunter did an okay job returning kicks last year, and didn't James return some punts in college (and doesn't cox have experience back there too?) Ginn brings nothing to the table as a wide out, and all I keep hearing is rave reviews about this palmer kid (and not just from Harbaugh who is prone to effusive praise) . If we work out James to return punts with hunter and James or hunter and Jenkins to return kicks, I don't see what ginn brings to the table. The question would be whether ginns value returning over those guys is greater than palmers value in the receiving game over ginn (I also think Williams is a lock to make the roster, which is why I was wondering if ginn is the lock everyone assumes he is)


49ers let him walk in FA for a week and only signed him to a 1 year deal. And i've been a Palmer fan since May so i figured this was a possibility. So yes i agree with you he's not guaranteed to make the roster. Although i think him and KW will be battling for a spot. Ginn is a much better returner and their WR production was actually pretty similar last year, but Williams has more upside as a WR.

If hypothetically Palmer earns a spot and Ginn/Williams are equal as receivers, i think i would take Ginn.


I really like NaPalm too, but he has an uphill battle. The roster bubble guys will be KW and Ginn, but there's a shot that both make it. Palmer needs to have an explosive pre-season to make the team, but I think he's locked in PS.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
49ersfan


Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 6743
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's my guess, based on practice reports and personal opinion. This is NOT a depth chart so don't freak out if your favorite player is 5th instead of 3rd on the list, and things can move around (IE Kilgore is the backup C but also the top backup OG too, etc). Just don't want to list players twice and confuse things.

Bold- rookie
Italic- FA

QB- Alex Smith, Colin Kaepernick, Scott Tolzien
RB- Frank Gore, Kendall Hunter, LaMichael James, Brandon Jacobs
FB- Bruce Miller
TE- Vernon Davis, Delanie Walker
WR- Randy Moss, Michael Crabtree,Mario Manningham, Kyle Williams, AJ Jenkins, Nathan Palmer, Ted Ginn
OT- Joe Staley, Anthony Davis, Mike Person
OG- Mike Iupati, Alex Boone, Joe Looney, Jason Slowey
C- Jonathan Goodwin, Daniel Kilgore

DE- Justin Smith, Ray McDonald, Demarcus Dobbs, Tony Jerrod-Eddie
NT- Isaac Sopoaga, RJF
OLB- Aldon Smith, Ahmad Brooks, Parys Haralson, Cam Johnson
ILB- Patrick Willis, NaVarro Bowman, Larry Grant, Tavares Gooden
CB- Carlos Rogers, Tarrell Brown, Chris Culliver,Perrish Cox, Cory Nelms
S- Dashon Goldson, Dante Whitner, CJ Spillman, Trenton Robinson, Colin Jones

K- David Akers
P- Andy Lee
LS- Brian Jennings

KR- Ted Ginn, Kyle Williams, Delanie Walker, Kendall Hunter
PR- Ted Ginn, Kyle Williams, Perrish Cox, LaMichael James

PUP- Jewel Hampton (bone spur), IR- Darius Fleming (ACL)

Practice Squad- TE Konrad Reuland, OL Chase Beeler, OL Al Netter, WR Bryan Tyms, WR Chris Owusu, OLB Kortnei Brown, S Michael Thomas, NT Ian Williams

Notable players outright cut/not on PS- Josh Johnson, Anthony Dixon, Rock Cartwright, Nate Byham, Leonard Davis, Will Tuakufu, Tramaine Brock, Curtis Holcolmb

Reasoning: Barrows recently mentioned Jerrod-Eddie as a surprise player to watch out for, this year's version of Demarcus Dobbs. I'm taking a leap of faith and projecting him to be too good to risk a chance of waiving, much like Dobbs last year. If he doesn't work out, replace him with Tuakufu.

7 WR's= Seems like a lot, but this is where the talent is. Palmer was a high priority UDFA that we paid a lot of money too, with a lot of teams after him, making plays every practice. He's been better than Jenkins so far too. You don't risk losing that.

Cory Nelms- a 2011 UDFA that the coaches were high on. He has S/CB versatility. Coaches actually seemed to talk him up more than 2011 7th rounder Curtis Holcomb and he's not coming off an achilles tear like Holcomb either.
_________________
-Not taking this off until the 49ers win #6
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
oldman9er


Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 40326
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seven wide receivers and Tukuafu not making the team seem... unlikely to me.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
49ersfan


Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 6743
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldman9er wrote:
Seven wide receivers and Tukuafu not making the team seem... unlikely to me.


I think WR is "that" group this year. EG last year we kept 6 safeties, 2 FB's, etc, while this year it evened back to about 5 safeties, 1 FB. I think they'll "redshirt" Palmer and Jenkins and not risk losing them to waivers (i also have a feeling they may IR Palmer with a ticky tack injury, like the Giants did to Cruz back in 2010).

Jerrod-Eddie over Tuakufu, a fair point. I just haven't heard much of Tuakufu this year outside of being a FB. Didn't really make an impact last year, even in Pre-season, before he got injured (unlike Dobbs who manhandled guards in pre-season). Only signed to minimum salary over 2 years. I think this is definitely my biggest projection though.
_________________
-Not taking this off until the 49ers win #6
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 14704
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

49ersfan wrote:
Forge wrote:
Am I the only one who is beginning to think that ginns job may not be the safest? In my opinion, if we have someone to return punts, he could be gone. Hunter did an okay job returning kicks last year, and didn't James return some punts in college (and doesn't cox have experience back there too?) Ginn brings nothing to the table as a wide out, and all I keep hearing is rave reviews about this palmer kid (and not just from Harbaugh who is prone to effusive praise) . If we work out James to return punts with hunter and James or hunter and Jenkins to return kicks, I don't see what ginn brings to the table. The question would be whether ginns value returning over those guys is greater than palmers value in the receiving game over ginn (I also think Williams is a lock to make the roster, which is why I was wondering if ginn is the lock everyone assumes he is)


49ers let him walk in FA for a week and only signed him to a 1 year deal. And i've been a Palmer fan since May so i figured this was a possibility. So yes i agree with you he's not guaranteed to make the roster. Although i think him and KW will be battling for a spot. Ginn is a much better returner and their WR production was actually pretty similar last year, but Williams has more upside as a WR.

If hypothetically Palmer earns a spot and Ginn/Williams are equal as receivers, i think i would take Ginn.


Over and over people keep talking about KW beating out Ginn. Why? Ginn was 2 or 3 last year while KW couldn't make the active roster until injuries piled up. What's changed to make anyone think KW would have leap frogged Ginn in the coachs' minds? Then add in Ginn's ability as a punt and kick returner, and he was great every time he touched the ball on the "jet sweep". Anything is possible, but unless contract issues play a part in the decision I just can't see them letting Ginn go in favor of KW. We've had in the past, and other teams have had, a dedicated return guy. I see Ginn becoming pretty much. And he's always available as our "emergency" WR in case we get a couple guys dinged up in a game.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 14704
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

49ersfan wrote:
oldman9er wrote:
Seven wide receivers and Tukuafu not making the team seem... unlikely to me.


I think WR is "that" group this year. EG last year we kept 6 safeties, 2 FB's, etc, while this year it evened back to about 5 safeties, 1 FB. I think they'll "redshirt" Palmer and Jenkins and not risk losing them to waivers (i also have a feeling they may IR Palmer with a ticky tack injury, like the Giants did to Cruz back in 2010).

Jerrod-Eddie over Tuakufu, a fair point. I just haven't heard much of Tuakufu this year outside of being a FB. Didn't really make an impact last year, even in Pre-season, before he got injured (unlike Dobbs who manhandled guards in pre-season). Only signed to minimum salary over 2 years. I think this is definitely my biggest projection though.


7 WRs just isn't going to happen. I'd guess 6 would be a stretch. Palmer goes to PS where we cross our fingers and hope he sticks, and KW is "iffy".
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
49ersfan2152


Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 756
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

49ersfan wrote:
Forge wrote:
Am I the only one who is beginning to think that ginns job may not be the safest? In my opinion, if we have someone to return punts, he could be gone. Hunter did an okay job returning kicks last year, and didn't James return some punts in college (and doesn't cox have experience back there too?) Ginn brings nothing to the table as a wide out, and all I keep hearing is rave reviews about this palmer kid (and not just from Harbaugh who is prone to effusive praise) . If we work out James to return punts with hunter and James or hunter and Jenkins to return kicks, I don't see what ginn brings to the table. The question would be whether ginns value returning over those guys is greater than palmers value in the receiving game over ginn (I also think Williams is a lock to make the roster, which is why I was wondering if ginn is the lock everyone assumes he is)


49ers let him walk in FA for a week and only signed him to a 1 year deal. And i've been a Palmer fan since May so i figured this was a possibility. So yes i agree with you he's not guaranteed to make the roster. Although i think him and KW will be battling for a spot. Ginn is a much better returner and their WR production was actually pretty similar last year, but Williams has more upside as a WR.

If hypothetically Palmer earns a spot and Ginn/Williams are equal as receivers, i think i would take Ginn.


Ya agree about Ginn if some one like Palmer earns a spot. I still think we carry 6 WRS But If it comes down to Williams an Ginn for a spot an they are equal at WR then Ginn no dought he by far the superior return man.
_________________


gridiorngreat thnk you for the sig

Favorite Teams
Redsox, 49ers, Celtics, Uconn BB, Bruins, LSU FB
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Psychlone


Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 3946
Location: Marin County, CA.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

49ers release first official depth chart of camp MM
Quote:
OFFENSE
WR: 15-Michael Crabtree, 10-Kyle Williams, 17-A.J. Jenkins, 13-Joe Hastings, 89-Nathan Palmer 9-Brian Tyms
LT: 74-Joe Staley, 75-Alex Boone, 71-Derek Hall, 69-Kenny Wiggins
LG: 77-Mike Iupati, 67-Daniel Kilgore, 66-Joe Looney, 60-Garrett Chisolm
C: 59-Jonathan Goodwin, 67-Daniel Kilgore, 61-Chase Beeler, 62-Jason Slowey
RG: 75-Alex Boone, 68-Leonard Davis, 78-Mike Person, 65-Al Netter
RT: 76-Anthony Davis, 78-Mike Person, 71-Derek Hall, 69-Kenny Wiggins
TE: 85-Vernon Davis, 46-Delanie Walker, 82-Nate Byham, 88-Konrad Reuland, 48-Garrett Celek, 47-Kyle Nelson
WR: 84-Randy Moss or 14-Mario Manningham or 19-Ted Ginn, 18-Brett Swain, 81-Chris Owusu, 35-Ben Hannula
RB: 49-Bruce Miller, 24-Anthony Dixon, 44-Cameron Bell
RB: 21-Frank Gore, 32-Kendall Hunter, 45-Brandon Jacobs, 23-LaMichael James, 28 Rock Cartwright
QB: 11-Alex Smith, 7-Colin Kaepernick, 1-Josh Johnson, 3-Scott Tolzien

DEFENSE
LDT: 91-Ray McDonald, 96-Demarcus Dobbs, 63-Tony Jerod-Eddie, 69-Patrick Butrym
NT: 90-Isaac Sopoaga, 95-Ricky Jean Francois, 93-Ian Williams
RDT: 94-Justin Smith, 92-Will Tukuafu, 71-Matthew Masifilo
OLB: 55-Ahmad Brooks, 98-Parys Haralson, 50-Cam Johnson, 44-Eric Bakhtiari
ILB: 53-NaVorro Bowman, 54-Larry Grant, 51-Joe Holland
ILB: 52-Patrick Willis, 56-Tavares Gooden, 57-Michael Wilhoite
OLB: 99-Aldon Smith, 98-Parys Haralson, 48-Kourtnei Brown
LCB: 22-Carlos Rogers, 26-Tramaine Brock, 20-Perrish Cox, 41-Curtis Holcomb
RCB: 25-Tarell Brown, 29-Chris Culliver, 33-Anthony Mosley, 40-Deante' Purvis
FS: 38-Dashon Goldson, 27-C.J. Spillman, 23-Cory Nelms, 43-Colin Jones, 35-Mark LeGree
SS: 31-Donte Whitner, 30-Trenton Robinson, 32-Darcel McBath, 36-Michael Thomas

SPECIAL TEAMS
PR: 19-Ted Ginn, 10-Kyle Williams, 23-LaMichael James
KOR: 19-Ted Ginn, 32-Kendall Hunter, 23-LaMichael James
P: 4-Andy Lee
K: 2-David Akers, 5-Giorgio Tavecchio
H: 4-Andy Lee
LS: 86-Brian Jennings, 47-Kyle Nelson

http://www.csnbayarea.com/football-san-francisco-niners/niners-talk/49ers-release-first-official-depth-chart?blockID=752431&feedID=5936
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
49ersfan


Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 6743
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

New 53 man roster

QB- Alex Smith (Colin Kaepernick, Scott Tolzien)
RB- Frank Gore (Kendall Hunter, LaMichael James, Brandon Jacobs)
FB- Bruce Miller
TE- Vernon Davis (Delanie Walker, Konrad Reuland)
WR- Michael Crabtree, Randy Moss (Mario Manningham, Ted Ginn, Kyle Williams, AJ Jenkins)
OL- Joe Staley, Mike Iupati, Jonathin Goodwin, Alex Boone, Anthony Davis (Daniel Kilgore, Mike Person, Derek Hall, Joe Looney)
DL- Justin Smith, Isaac Sopoaga, Ray McDonald (Demarcus Dobbs, Ian Williams, RJF)
OLB- Aldon Smith, Ahmad Brooks (Parys Haralson, Eric Bakhtiari)
ILB- Patrick Willis, NaVarro Bowman (Larry Grant, Tavares Gooden)
CB- Carlos Rogers, Tarrell Brown (Chris Culliver, Perrish Cox, Tramaine Brock)
S- Dashon Goldson, Donte Whitner (CJ Spillman, Trenton Robinson, Michael Thomas)
K- Akers, Lee, Jennings

IR- OLB Darius Fleming, RB Jewel Hampton. PUP- Cam Johnson
PS- WR Chris Owusu, WR Nathan Palmer, WR Bryan Tyms, OL Jason Slowey, OL Chase Beeler, ILB Joe Holland, S Cory Nelms, DE Tony Jerrod-Eddie

Notable cuts: QB Josh Johnson, RB Rock Cartwright, RB Anthony Dixon, OL Leonard Davis, DL Will Tuakufu, S Colin Jones
_________________
-Not taking this off until the 49ers win #6
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
oldman9er


Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 40326
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks about right, 49ersfan.

A few slight changes I see (and the first is nitpicky)

RJF is the 4th DL in, so not sure if you had an order going in that case)

I don't think Hall makes it over Leonard Davis. I think Big Leonard is here to stay for the year. Hall would probably be cut... stay an FA, and we can always scoop him back up if injuries occur.

Keeping Palmer, Tyms, and Owusu... hmmm... can't say I dislike it. Would probably look to cut it down to two, but suppose it could work. I am liking Tyms the most right now (yes, his size helps tip the scale), so I'd probably keep the smaller WR that most impresses in these next two games between Palmer and Owusu.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
struby3


Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 3843
Location: Iowa City
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldman9er wrote:
Looks about right, 49ersfan.

A few slight changes I see (and the first is nitpicky)

RJF is the 4th DL in, so not sure if you had an order going in that case)

I don't think Hall makes it over Leonard Davis. I think Big Leonard is here to stay for the year. Hall would probably be cut... stay an FA, and we can always scoop him back up if injuries occur.

Keeping Palmer, Tyms, and Owusu... hmmm... can't say I dislike it. Would probably look to cut it down to two, but suppose it could work. I am liking Tyms the most right now (yes, his size helps tip the scale), so I'd probably keep the smaller WR that most impresses in these next two games between Palmer and Owusu.


Just curious...do you think Rock makes the team? I'm pretty much "meh" on whether or not he makes it at this point. And what are you thoughts on Colin Jones? Too one-dimensional or does his ST skills make him worth a roster spot?
_________________
And on the eighth day, God created Iowa.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> San Francisco 49ers All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 5 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group