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REDandPEWTER's 2012 Draft Grades
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youngbuc20


Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 1218
Location: Bradenton, FL
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caaddy24 wrote:
Really how is anybody on here to say "it's bad value"... based off what may I ask? Your own personal "evaluation"?? Oh yeah right I forgot, most people on this forum are professional scouts and also could have done better in the draft then a real GM and front office Rolling Eyes give me a break


I hope that you didn't read What I wrote wrong haha. I said it wasn't bad value. Mayock had him rated as the 7th best player overall. We got him at number 7. I think thats pretty good value if you ask me Laughing
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Caaddy24


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 5662
Location: Houston
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BuczNGator5 wrote:
Caaddy24 wrote:
Really how is anybody on here to say "it's bad value"... based off what may I ask? Your own personal "evaluation"?? Oh yeah right I forgot, most people on this forum are professional scouts and also could have done better in the draft then a real GM and front office Rolling Eyes give me a break
Yes, I believe he wasn't worth that high of a pick base on my personal evaluation of him. I agree that I'm no professional, but that's just my opinion.


Well not trying to sound like an [inappropriate/removed] or anything but that's just a pet peeve of mine.

So can you tell me which parts of him you don't like and why you don't think he's worth the 7th pick?
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skatebeanz


Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Posts: 19317
Location: Jamison. on the Sweet-sig.
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

manilathrilla1 wrote:
Getting the best Guard in the league and a top flight WR for half of what Calvin Johnson signed for is amazing.
Huh? Calvin Johnson has 8 years 132 Mil. $16.5M/year

Jackson got $11M/year and Nicks got $9.5M/year,

$16.5M/year<$20.5M/year. Confused
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youngbuc20


Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 1218
Location: Bradenton, FL
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skatebeanz wrote:
manilathrilla1 wrote:
Getting the best Guard in the league and a top flight WR for half of what Calvin Johnson signed for is amazing.
Huh? Calvin Johnson has 8 years 132 Mil. $16.5M/year

Jackson got $11M/year and Nicks got $9.5M/year,

$16.5M/year<$20.5M/year. Confused


I think he may be talking about if you add up both of Nicks and Jacksons contracts it is less then the 132 mil that Calvins is. Not talking about what it averages too.
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tdfast


Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 11186
Location: Edmonton
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me the most important A in the draft goes to Dom.

Without a couple smart moves and adding ammunition by moving down we could have missed both Martin and David. The Giants would have jumped all over Martin at 32 and David wouldn't have lasted much longer. Those moves got us into the right spots and we got great players.
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RoeKG


Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 4231
Location: PA
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BuczNGator5 wrote:
You guys put wayyyyy too much stock into what the "experts" say. I got on here right after the Bucs selected Barron, and every person in here was ready to turn in their fan card. As soon as Kiper & co starting boosting up the pick everyone was happy, and all of a sudden the pick was great. I'm probably one of the biggest Barron supporters on the board. I've wanted Barron to become a Buccaneers since day one at Bama, but I can't justify the pick at #7. I think it was bad value, and the trade was horrible. A 4th rounder to move up 3 spots in the top 10? I thought there had to be more to the trade. A player, a future pick, something! In hindsight it turned out well because we used that 4th to make 2 HUGE moves in the draft. But there's not one person in here that can honestly tell me that when that trade was made you were sitting there like "That was a good trade" or "We really got one over on the Jags". But looking at the draft as a whole, I can't be too upset. Barron is a stud. Martin was my #2 back, and I believe he will be a big contributor right away. David is exactly what this team needs on defense. Tandy is a guy I believe can make the squad and compete for the nickle spot. Michael Smith is a guy that might be able to become our "Kareem Huggins". Plus I love both Johnsons as UDFA's. But I think looking back in a couple of year, we aren't going to look at this draft as the one that turned this team around. Sadly I think we will look back on this draft as the draft where we missed out on Richardson. Overall I'd give the draft a B


Dueces and I posted these before the draft started. We wanted Barron and I would also say I was one who wasn't crazy about Claiborne. I've said the running game was the problem the whole time.

I don't think anyone was mad we took Barron, I just think that after 6 months of expecting Claiborne or Richardson made people react that way. I don't like surprises, either.

deuces22wild wrote:
RoeKG wrote:
tdfast wrote:
Last minute big boards:

Who are your top 3, in order?

Claiborne
T-Rich
Kalil


Richardson
Claiborne
Blackmon

If we trade back,
Barron
Kuechly
Kirkpatrick


Trade back good call

Barron
Kuechly
Floyd
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BuczNGator5


Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 405
Location: Dolla$, Texa5
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caaddy24 wrote:
BuczNGator5 wrote:
Caaddy24 wrote:
Really how is anybody on here to say "it's bad value"... based off what may I ask? Your own personal "evaluation"?? Oh yeah right I forgot, most people on this forum are professional scouts and also could have done better in the draft then a real GM and front office Rolling Eyes give me a break
Yes, I believe he wasn't worth that high of a pick base on my personal evaluation of him. I agree that I'm no professional, but that's just my opinion.


Well not trying to sound like an [inappropriate/removed] or anything but that's just a pet peeve of mine.

So can you tell me which parts of him you don't like and why you don't think he's worth the 7th pick?
I love him as a prospect. I honestly think he will be one of our strong points on defense next year. The reason I don't like the value is because we missed out on Claiborne over a 4th round pick. Claiborne is going to be a playmaker at the next level. He will be near the top of the NFL in INTs every year. In hindsight the 4th round pick was huge, but at the time of the trade they had no idea how things were going to fall into place. Personally I would have stayed put grabbed Claiborne and tried to use other picks or future picks to move up if necessary. That's just my 2 cents. Trust me I hope I'm wrong, I hate the Cowboys!!!
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mfw096


Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 2926
Location: UNLV
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

deuces22wild wrote:
http://www.footballsfuture.com/2012/nfcgrades.html

Quote:
Tampa Bay Bucs C+
Alabama S Mark Barron was a hot name leading up to the draft, but was a rather large over draft at #7 overall. He is a very good player, but is not a game changer at the safety position, and should not have been selected that high. The Bucs moved back up in the first round to land Boise St RB Doug Martin. Seems like another over draft. A steady, dependable back but a bit of a reach at #22. Nebraska LB Lavonte David was an excellent selection in the second round, and could remind some Buc fans of Derrick Brooks with his range and nose for the football.


Was Barron not ranked overall top 7 player by Mayock and others once the draft rolled around?

Was Doug Martin also not rumored to maybe land in Cle (22) or Den (25) and would NY (32) not selected him if we didn't jump them? Maybe Martin was a reach at 22, good thing we didn't take him with that pick and only traded back up to 31 Confused


Wow I just seen this post and got to admit half the time I just go to the boards and not look at the main page, this guy must be a Carolina fan or something who wrote this up because that is horrible....! I know we are bucs fans and like to be a homer sometimes, but we had the best the draft by far and that's being real!
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Lil' Shorty


Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3352
Location: NC...surrounded by lame Panther fans.
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BuczNGator5 wrote:
Caaddy24 wrote:
BuczNGator5 wrote:
Caaddy24 wrote:
Really how is anybody on here to say "it's bad value"... based off what may I ask? Your own personal "evaluation"?? Oh yeah right I forgot, most people on this forum are professional scouts and also could have done better in the draft then a real GM and front office Rolling Eyes give me a break
Yes, I believe he wasn't worth that high of a pick base on my personal evaluation of him. I agree that I'm no professional, but that's just my opinion.


Well not trying to sound like an [inappropriate/removed] or anything but that's just a pet peeve of mine.

So can you tell me which parts of him you don't like and why you don't think he's worth the 7th pick?
I love him as a prospect. I honestly think he will be one of our strong points on defense next year. The reason I don't like the value is because we missed out on Claiborne over a 4th round pick. Claiborne is going to be a playmaker at the next level. He will be near the top of the NFL in INTs every year. In hindsight the 4th round pick was huge, but at the time of the trade they had no idea how things were going to fall into place. Personally I would have stayed put grabbed Claiborne and tried to use other picks or future picks to move up if necessary. That's just my 2 cents. Trust me I hope I'm wrong, I hate the Cowboys!!!

You must realize that Dominik had to have the scenario that happened in his mind and didnt just pull that out his butt at the last second when stuff started to fall into place.

Here is something you didnt mention. Claiborne is not a vocal leader, Barron is. He is a Dawkins type that sets a tone for the defense each and every game and leads them to victory. Our defense did lack talent last year but that was not the biggest thing. They lacked leadership. Barber is good but he is not a vocal leader. Considering Claiborne and Barron will most likely both be top players at their positions, we need to go with the guy that will bring physicality back to our defense and lead them vocally. Plus, the safety position is very important in Schiano's defense. We already have Talib and while Grimm is solid, we have no standout safety. Obvious why we drafted Barron.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 8142
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BuczNGator5 wrote:
Caaddy24 wrote:
BuczNGator5 wrote:
Caaddy24 wrote:
Really how is anybody on here to say "it's bad value"... based off what may I ask? Your own personal "evaluation"?? Oh yeah right I forgot, most people on this forum are professional scouts and also could have done better in the draft then a real GM and front office Rolling Eyes give me a break
Yes, I believe he wasn't worth that high of a pick base on my personal evaluation of him. I agree that I'm no professional, but that's just my opinion.


Well not trying to sound like an [inappropriate/removed] or anything but that's just a pet peeve of mine.

So can you tell me which parts of him you don't like and why you don't think he's worth the 7th pick?
I love him as a prospect. I honestly think he will be one of our strong points on defense next year. The reason I don't like the value is because we missed out on Claiborne over a 4th round pick. Claiborne is going to be a playmaker at the next level. He will be near the top of the NFL in INTs every year. In hindsight the 4th round pick was huge, but at the time of the trade they had no idea how things were going to fall into place. Personally I would have stayed put grabbed Claiborne and tried to use other picks or future picks to move up if necessary. That's just my 2 cents. Trust me I hope I'm wrong, I hate the Cowboys!!!


Let's see we hired Ron brooks , Claiborne 's DB s coach at LSU. He knew more about him than most so we had more info on him probably than any other team. What does that say?
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Caaddy24


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 5662
Location: Houston
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BuczNGator5 wrote:
Caaddy24 wrote:
BuczNGator5 wrote:
Caaddy24 wrote:
Really how is anybody on here to say "it's bad value"... based off what may I ask? Your own personal "evaluation"?? Oh yeah right I forgot, most people on this forum are professional scouts and also could have done better in the draft then a real GM and front office Rolling Eyes give me a break
Yes, I believe he wasn't worth that high of a pick base on my personal evaluation of him. I agree that I'm no professional, but that's just my opinion.


Well not trying to sound like an [inappropriate/removed] or anything but that's just a pet peeve of mine.

So can you tell me which parts of him you don't like and why you don't think he's worth the 7th pick?
I love him as a prospect. I honestly think he will be one of our strong points on defense next year. The reason I don't like the value is because we missed out on Claiborne over a 4th round pick. Claiborne is going to be a playmaker at the next level. He will be near the top of the NFL in INTs every year. In hindsight the 4th round pick was huge, but at the time of the trade they had no idea how things were going to fall into place. Personally I would have stayed put grabbed Claiborne and tried to use other picks or future picks to move up if necessary. That's just my 2 cents. Trust me I hope I'm wrong, I hate the Cowboys!!!


so this is based on your evaluation of Claiborne not Mark Barron. You didn't even say anything about Claiborne's play, just that you think he'll be a top CB... So again, what about Mark Barron makes you think he isn't worth the 7th pick?
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Caaddy24


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 5662
Location: Houston
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

youngbuc20 wrote:
Caaddy24 wrote:
Really how is anybody on here to say "it's bad value"... based off what may I ask? Your own personal "evaluation"?? Oh yeah right I forgot, most people on this forum are professional scouts and also could have done better in the draft then a real GM and front office Rolling Eyes give me a break


I hope that you didn't read What I wrote wrong haha. I said it wasn't bad value. Mayock had him rated as the 7th best player overall. We got him at number 7. I think thats pretty good value if you ask me Laughing


And I'll take his, or any other real scout's word over any fan about what their own evaluation of a player is
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dbtb135


Joined: 22 Oct 2005
Posts: 3834
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caaddy24 wrote:
Really how is anybody on here to say "it's bad value"... based off what may I ask? Your own personal "evaluation"?? Oh yeah right I forgot, most people on this forum are professional scouts and also could have done better in the draft then a real GM and front office Rolling Eyes give me a break


You do realize that discussing and/or disagreeing with the GMs/coaches/players is what this entire site is predicated on, right? Without it, there wouldn't be half the topics in the entire football part of the forum that there are. And also, in your stance, you're taking a shot at the people who agree with the pick/value? Would you really like our sub-forum to be:

Post 1: Dominick drafted Barron. Must be a good pick, because he's a real GM and knows more than I do.

Post 2: He sure does!

Post 3: Mmmhmmm.

Post 4: Boy howdy!

That seems less constructive than actually having an opinion...
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Caaddy24


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 5662
Location: Houston
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dbtb135 wrote:
Caaddy24 wrote:
Really how is anybody on here to say "it's bad value"... based off what may I ask? Your own personal "evaluation"?? Oh yeah right I forgot, most people on this forum are professional scouts and also could have done better in the draft then a real GM and front office Rolling Eyes give me a break


You do realize that discussing and/or disagreeing with the GMs/coaches/players is what this entire site is predicated on, right? Without it, there wouldn't be half the topics in the entire football part of the forum that there are. And also, in your stance, you're taking a shot at the people who agree with the pick/value? Would you really like our sub-forum to be:

Post 1: Dominick drafted Barron. Must be a good pick, because he's a real GM and knows more than I do.

Post 2: He sure does!

Post 3: Mmmhmmm.

Post 4: Boy howdy!

That seems less constructive than actually having an opinion...


you're right and I thought about that after I said it, but sometimes people go overboard with their own evaluations. I respect everyone's own opinion on things, but also think that if you're gonna have a strong opinion or disagreement with someone else or with what our team did then you should have a legitimate reason for it and explain it. Not just "that's bad value"... "bad pick"... "Claiborne is better"
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dbtb135


Joined: 22 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caaddy24 wrote:
you're right and I thought about that after I said it, but sometimes people go overboard with their own evaluations. I respect everyone's own opinion on things, but also think that if you're gonna have a strong opinion or disagreement with someone else or with what our team did then you should have a legitimate reason for it and explain it. Not just "that's bad value"... "bad pick"... "Claiborne is better"


It does seem you see both sides of the coin, which is good. I just think it's a slight double-standard when people praise the pick, and it's fine, but when people question it, it has to be legitimized. In essence me saying "I'm not a fan of the pick" and someone else saying "Great pick!" is the same idea, both based mostly on personal opinion. Only no one is ever going to ask the guy who thinks it's a great pick why he thinks so. As long as it's respectful, I don't have a problem with differing opinions. I just don't feel, from where I'd take comparable to better safety prospects in the past, that Barron was a good value there. That's all.
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