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With the 29th pick, MINN selects - Harrison Smith [S] ND
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Williams: "[Smith's] a physical ballplayer, he's smart and he does not look like a rookie out there in terms of the plays overwhelming him. He looks like he belongs. It's nice to have a guy out there that settles the defense, settles the secondary. I've played with rookies before. When I was in Indy, Antoine Bethea was a rookie and played every ballgame through the Super Bowl and played great ball. Bob Sanders, when he came in as a rookie, he played when he got healthy he played a ton of ball. That's OK. As long as they're good football players. And Harrison is a good football player."

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/168803196.html
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MN's secondary will be reliant on Smith becoming a good football player from the get go. MN needs the Safety spots solidified.
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ArcticNorseman


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For all the talk about how horrible the Vikes will be this year, I have to laugh -- although I dont' believe the playoffs are likely given the division and the youth of this team.

On a bright note, Harrison Smith getting a $21,000 fine for a hit is a good sign. To me, it shows he's going to put his stamp on this team. I hope it translates to interceptions too. Most really good free safeties get 6 - 8 Int's per year, so after 7 years they're in that 40-ish career interception range . . . enough to be qualified as elite.

I think the Vikes pass rush is a special deal, and it's extremely comforting to know they have Winfield and Cook back at CB with some solid speed and depth behind them. This leads me to ask the following:

Is it possible that the rookie INT record of 14, set in 1952 and currently held by - "Night Train" Lane is in jeapordy -- would you want to see Smith tie or break that record?
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArcticNorseman wrote:
For all the talk about how horrible the Vikes will be this year, I have to laugh -- although I dont' believe the playoffs are likely given the division and the youth of this team.

On a bright note, Harrison Smith getting a $21,000 fine for a hit is a good sign. To me, it shows he's going to put his stamp on this team. I hope it translates to interceptions too. Most really good free safeties get 6 - 8 Int's per year, so after 7 years they're in that 40-ish career interception range . . . enough to be qualified as elite.

I think the Vikes pass rush is a special deal, and it's extremely comforting to know they have Winfield and Cook back at CB with some solid speed and depth behind them. This leads me to ask the following:

Is it possible that the rookie INT record of 14, set in 1952 and currently held by - "Night Train" Lane is in jeapordy -- would you want to see Smith tie or break that record?


The flaw with the Cover 2 scheme is that it really hinders the interception totals for the Safetys. The Safetys simply dont have the freedom to be a "ball hawk" given that the Safetys have to cover deep halves. One of the NFLs best ball hawks, Darren Sharper, struggled to pick off passes in teh Vikes Cover 2 for this reason. Everyone assumed he was just washed up, then he went onto have a huge year for the Saints.

Look at the great Cover 2 Safetys over the years. Lynch, Tanard Jackson, Antoine Bethea, Bob Sanders, all of these guys had low Int totals throughout there career. I think at most, Smith will probably average 3-4 ints per year as long as MN remains in the Cover 2. The one's who really should have higher Int totals in the Cover 2 are the LBs and CBs given the zones they cover put them in better positions to get there hands on a few balls. I remember that great Bucs defense that won the superbowl, there CBs and LBs were beasts in terms of picking off passes.
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PurpleMugen


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArcticNorseman wrote:
For all the talk about how horrible the Vikes will be this year, I have to laugh -- although I dont' believe the playoffs are likely given the division and the youth of this team.

On a bright note, Harrison Smith getting a $21,000 fine for a hit is a good sign. To me, it shows he's going to put his stamp on this team. I hope it translates to interceptions too. Most really good free safeties get 6 - 8 Int's per year, so after 7 years they're in that 40-ish career interception range . . . enough to be qualified as elite.

I think the Vikes pass rush is a special deal, and it's extremely comforting to know they have Winfield and Cook back at CB with some solid speed and depth behind them. This leads me to ask the following:

Is it possible that the rookie INT record of 14, set in 1952 and currently held by - "Night Train" Lane is in jeapordy -- would you want to see Smith tie or break that record?


Correct me if I'm reading this wrong, but are you seriously suggesting that Harrison Smith can break Lane's record? That record has remained untouched for over a half-century for a reason. No Cover 2 safety is going to even sniff that.
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[UMN]


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Smith gets 4 INTs this season I will consider that a major success.
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ArcticNorseman


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heckuva nice question to ask, eh?

I don't think anybody regardless of scheme or position is going to get 14 Ints in a year (especially a rookie) . . . even though the league is pass-happy.

I will say this, cover 2 is just the base scheme . . . if this defensive front does what it's capable of, there will be sacks and pressures . . . tipped-balls, telegraphing and hurried throws. Things like that allow a defense to get creative, and a safety with good range and instincts won't have his blinders on -- playmakers make plays.

I also think Alan Williams is smart enough to temper the rigidity everyone thinks must exist in the Tampa 2 scheme. He'll adjust the scheme to the offense they face each week, and good Lord willing, this team will get 2 turnovers per game average.

Smith should be a big part of that . . . maybe 3 ints . . . maybe 9. Time will tell.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Mr. Smith,

Please knock the snot out of any receiver that comes close to your protection area and is making a play on the ball.

Thank you,

vike daddy
a 43 year long Viking fan
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
Dear Mr. Smith,

Please knock the snot out of any receiver that comes close to your protection area and is making a play on the ball.

Thank you,

vike daddy
a 43 year long Viking fan


As long as it doesnt get in the way of him picking off a pass Wink

Forget the big hits and interceptions, I just want to see a Safety in proper coverage and not blowing coverage assignments.
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Klomp


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harrison had 7 interceptions in his Notre Dame career. (all in 2010 as a junior)
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PurpleMugen


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArcticNorseman wrote:
Heckuva nice question to ask, eh?

I don't think anybody regardless of scheme or position is going to get 14 Ints in a year (especially a rookie) . . . even though the league is pass-happy.

I will say this, cover 2 is just the base scheme . . . if this defensive front does what it's capable of, there will be sacks and pressures . . . tipped-balls, telegraphing and hurried throws. Things like that allow a defense to get creative, and a safety with good range and instincts won't have his blinders on -- playmakers make plays.

I also think Alan Williams is smart enough to temper the rigidity everyone thinks must exist in the Tampa 2 scheme. He'll adjust the scheme to the offense they face each week, and good Lord willing, this team will get 2 turnovers per game average.


Smith should be a big part of that . . . maybe 3 ints . . . maybe 9. Time will tell.


We can certainly expect to see a high sack total for the season; having Jared Allen as the engine of your defensive line will allow for that. The fatal flaw with your assessment is the assumption that tipped balls and hurried throws will be capitalized on for turnovers. In Leslie Frazier's Cover 2, a premium is put on corners and safeties adhering to their assignments and ensuring that safe and reliable stops are made. The flip side of this is that not nearly as many aggressive breaks on the ball are made; doing so would break the integrity of the system being run. It is highly unlikely and somewhat silly to simply assume the nature of this defense will take a 180-degree turn in a single season, if it turns at all. And as far as Alan Williams is concerned, there is literally next-to-nothing to base an assessment on. Unless you know him personally, I find it hard to take your word that he is "smart enough" to make the right adjustments when the time comes, particularly given that he is coming off a disastrous season with the Colts (the secondary, his area of 'expertise,' in particular disarray).
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Klomp


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's our TEAM totals the past five years...

2011-8
2010-15
2009-11
2008-12
2007-15

2007 was also the last time any individual had 10 INTs

Night Trains total is not only the rookie leader, but is the most any player has had in a single year.
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SteelKing728


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Klomp wrote:
Here's our TEAM totals the past five years...

2011-8
2010-15
2009-11
2008-12
2007-15

2007 was also the last time any individual had 10 INTs

Night Trains total is not only the rookie leader, but is the most any player has had in a single year.


I really don't want to blame the Cover 2 for such low INT numbers.

Its just we never really had much talent back at the secondary. We've had Winfield for a long time, but outside of Sharper, no one was really any good.

It was just sickening having to go through guys like Cedric Giffin, Benny Sapp (2x), Asher Allen, Marcus McCauley, Frank Walker, Dwight Smith, Mike Doss, JAMARCA SANFORD and Tyrell Johnson (I'm missing quite a few guys here)

Atleast this year, we have some talent back there. I like Harrison Smith and Mistral Raymond at Safety, and Winny, Chris Cook, Josh Robinson and AJ Jefferson at corner.
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Lil Uno


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelKing728 wrote:
Klomp wrote:
Here's our TEAM totals the past five years...

2011-8
2010-15
2009-11
2008-12
2007-15

2007 was also the last time any individual had 10 INTs

Night Trains total is not only the rookie leader, but is the most any player has had in a single year.


I really don't want to blame the Cover 2 for such low INT numbers.

Its just we never really had much talent back at the secondary. We've had Winfield for a long time, but outside of Sharper, no one was really any good.

It was just sickening having to go through guys like Cedric Giffin, Benny Sapp (2x), Asher Allen, Marcus McCauley, Frank Walker, Dwight Smith, Mike Doss, JAMARCA SANFORD and Tyrell Johnson (I'm missing quite a few guys here)

Atleast this year, we have some talent back there. I like Harrison Smith and Mistral Raymond at Safety, and Winny, Chris Cook, Josh Robinson and AJ Jefferson at corner.


The Bears are consistently in the top half of the league in terms of INTs and they run Cover-2. As are the Bucs.

I think the problem with our defense over the last 5 years under Frazier is that he plays a strict Cover-2 scheme. The Bears and Bucs play Cover-2 maybe a third of the time. They also blitz and play more man than most. The Vikings tried to implement more blitzing last year and this offseason we have heard more talk about playing man. So hopefully we see a more aggressive scheme under Alan Williams that can lead to more INTs.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last year the Vikes wanted to be a more aggressive but they werent able to since they didnt have a single CB who could be relied on in man coverage once Cook was kicked off the team.

I expect with the addition of Cook, Robinson and Jefferson, three CBs who are ideally built to play man coverage, i think MN will be more aggressive. You can still run an aggressive defense and use the Cover 2 look with the Safetys. You just need a smart MLB, who can excel in coverage. Not sure MN has that yet.
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