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Frank Costello
Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 8815
Location: in 2009, Vikings>Saints
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 Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| NorthCountryEvo wrote: | | since72 wrote: | Wow.
LOW RISK??????????????
What does a guy have to do to be a "high-risk" signing?
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He is considered low risk because it is a one year deal, and most likely with a small dollar amount. If he busts or falls of the wagon, so to speak, we really don't lose a whole lot. In contrast, high risk would have been us giving him a 4 year $23 Million contract. |
Not to mention, his former HC had a lot of quality things to say about him. Even wrote the Judge a letter. So yes, it's a low risk, high reward scenario. If he slips, we're not tied to him. If he excels, we're the team that gave him the shot too.
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NorthCountryEvo
Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 344
Location: Maple Grove, MN
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| since72 wrote: | | NorthCountryEvo wrote: | | since72 wrote: | Wow.
LOW RISK??????????????
What does a guy have to do to be a "high-risk" signing?
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He is considered low risk because it is a one year deal, and most likely with a small dollar amount. If he busts or falls of the wagon, so to speak, we really don't lose a whole lot. In contrast, high risk would have been us giving him a 4 year $23 Million contract. |
I see, you're talking about the risk to Zygi's pocketbook. Big deal. It's part of being a football owner. You risk money every time you put out a contract. A player tries to cut on some slick grass and blows out an ACL in training camp. Cha Ching. Money for nothing and your chicks for free.
I'm talking about the risk of bringing a low character, low production, drug using, suspended bum on our team.
We gave Hutchinson a 7 year deal for 51 million or something like that. Nobody called that a high risk deal. Because the guy was a quality guy.
Nobody is going to be stupid enough to give any suspended player a big contract. Even if we gave a used puck bag for this guy, he's a high risk. |
Well, that is quite a bit harsh.
For one, it's the team's cap room that is being sacraficed, not Zygi Wilf's "pocketbook", and I think it was probably more of the GM's decision.
Two, saying Simpson is low in character is a bit of a stretch. While Marijuana is illegal and not allowed in the league, I don't know that it calls his character into question. He pleaded guilty, has apologized, and has taken every step towards making up for his mistake. He has recieved rave reviews from his coaches and others around him as being a quality person, and even "charitable and in the community" if I can remember correctly.
Bottom line, the guy made a mistake, and I am fairly certain it is his first legal issue. At some point you have to be willing to give someone a second chance, especially with something such as marijuana use, which the country is somewhat torn about as far as whether it should be illegal or not. Try and remember that Cris Carter was kicked off the Eagles because of his substance abuse, and he came to the vikings and had an amazing career. Heck, Favre, a guy I personally don't like, had drinking problems early in his career. By you logic, we should not have traded for Jared Allen?
We also gave Hutch a monster deal because he was already a very accomplished O-lineman. That wasn't high risk because he already had proven himself. Simpson shows promise, but he still has to prove himself, and because of his suspension and legal issues, we gave him a "show me" deal so he can continue to prove himself.
Calling Simpson a bum is a bit too far as well. Some might call a person judging a "book by it's cover" a low character move...
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vike daddy
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 66566
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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nice signing, you betcha.
but hopefully will not deter us one bit from drafting WR's if they have been on our Board all the while. having Homer Simpson on the team now shouldn't affect that.
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Freakish Mind
Joined: 15 Aug 2009
Posts: 920
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| I like the signing, But like VD said, I hope it does not deter us from getting a WR in the 1st or 2nd round. I don't see Simpson as being more then a #3 receiver on this team, maybe stepping in to a #2 role if Harvin was to get hurt. But I would hate to see Harvin as a #1 and Simpson as our #2 heading into the season. |
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CriminalMind
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
Posts: 2959
Location: Toronto, CA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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Nice signing.
I would still take a WR in 2nd or 3rd, if they are high enough on our overall board and feel that prospect is a true #1 WR potential.
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SteelKing728
Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 10849
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| this providence wrote: | | PrplChilPill wrote: | | [UMN] wrote: | #3 WR at best. He just flat out doesn't produce.
If Jeffery/Randle/Wright is there at #35 they should be the pick. |
Good luck stopping the other team's offense if you do that... |
Pretty much. Would have to be the worst defense ever assembled.
As for Simpson, meh. Taking the Throw it Against the Wall and See What Sticks approach. There's a reason why all these guys are signed at 1 year deals (i.e. they're not very good at all). |
Actually, these guys are being given a "prove it" type of deal.
Which makes sense. I think Geoff Schwartz could've been the steal of Free Agency and be a great player for us. But no one knows for sure. So are we supposed to go off this random idea that he'll end up being a steal and sign him to a mega deal?
Jerome Felton isn't worth more than a 1 yr deal, as is Aromashadu. Bowman was injured, and I didn't ever think we had a long term plan in place for Chris Carr anyways.
Simpson has a legit 1 yr deal because of legal issues. If he can perform in the preseason/ 13 games this season, I stronly believe he'll be back next season with us.
This kinda clears up a foggy situation for Minnesota's WR problem. I love it.
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thestonedkoala
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3798
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:32 am Post subject: |
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1) Simpson has been in the league 3 years and has a spotty record. He hasn't even been a starter really. So that tells you something.
2) So now we're picking up the troubled players from the Bengals? THE BENGALS? Good God, I didn't know this organization could fall this far down hill. What next? Signing Pacman Jones. |
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vikingsrule
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 39429
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| thestonedkoala wrote: | 1) Simpson has been in the league 3 years and has a spotty record. He hasn't even been a starter really. So that tells you something.
2) So now we're picking up the troubled players from the Bengals? THE BENGALS? Good God, I didn't know this organization could fall this far down hill. What next? Signing Pacman Jones. |
This is what happens when your a bottom dweller in a state that hasnt shown much interest in keeping you. It usually takes WRs some time to develop, WR is one of the harder positions to pick up. Given Simpson is still raw, there is room for growth, unlike signing a free agent who has peaked. |
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thestonedkoala
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3798
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:45 am Post subject: |
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| vikingsrule wrote: |
This is what happens when your a bottom dweller in a state that hasnt shown much interest in keeping you. It usually takes WRs some time to develop, WR is one of the harder positions to pick up. Given Simpson is still raw, there is room for growth, unlike signing a free agent who has peaked. |
What? We make the situation worse by signing more problem players that'll more than likely get arrested? How did Koren Robinson work out?
He's been in this league for 3 seasons. Wide receiver might be a bit more complex but Simpson is slightly older than Rice and yet Rice has put up better numbers when health compared to Simpson. |
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vikingsrule
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 39429
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:55 am Post subject: |
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| thestonedkoala wrote: | | vikingsrule wrote: |
This is what happens when your a bottom dweller in a state that hasnt shown much interest in keeping you. It usually takes WRs some time to develop, WR is one of the harder positions to pick up. Given Simpson is still raw, there is room for growth, unlike signing a free agent who has peaked. |
What? We make the situation worse by signing more problem players that'll more than likely get arrested? How did Koren Robinson work out?
He's been in this league for 3 seasons. Wide receiver might be a bit more complex but Simpson is slightly older than Rice and yet Rice has put up better numbers when health compared to Simpson. |
Rice also had a HOF Qb throwing to him, the one year he did anything of note here. Simpson has had a broken Carson Palmer for the first couple years of his career. He had a good QB last year and he put up better numbers.
There is no denying Simpson has character concerns, but MN has very little commitment to him. If he wants to change his life, become a mature person, and a more consistent football player, I think he should get that opportunity. Of course, he basically has two strikes at this point. One more and he will probably be cut without hesitation. So what is the big issue with the signing, as of now he is just another camp body with likely more potential than most of the WRs on the roster. |
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thestonedkoala
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3798
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:07 am Post subject: |
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| vikingsrule wrote: |
Rice also had a HOF Qb throwing to him, the one year he did anything of note here. Simpson has had a broken Carson Palmer for the first couple years of his career. He had a good QB last year and he put up better numbers. |
Except Rice was injured (again) last year and Simpson couldn't even beat out a guy like Shipley. Simpson wasn't even active when Palmer was QB...that says a lot when the WR isn't even active 2-3 years after being drafted in the 2nd round. If Simpson was a late round pick, sure. But 2nd round pick?
You're telling me guys like Jordy Nelson, DeSean Jackson are flukes?
Even guys like Harry Douglas, Lavelle Hawkins, and Early Dourcet, while not putting up numbers at least played for a long stretch of the season.
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There is no denying Simpson has character concerns, but MN has very little commitment to him. If he wants to change his life, become a mature person, and a more consistent football player, I think he should get that opportunity. Of course, he basically has two strikes at this point. One more and he will probably be cut without hesitation. So what is the big issue with the signing, as of now he is just another camp body with likely more potential than most of the WRs on the roster. |
1) He's a Bengal and they cut ties with him. Bengals are notorious for picking up 'character' concern guys like Pacman Jones, Chris Henry and others.
2) We have enough character concern guys on this roster. We are the most arrested team in the NFL, which means our guys are getting themselves in positions where they shouldn't be. Again, this all comes down the culture of Minnesota. You don't think that plays in the mind of those funding the stadium? Why should they fund a stadium if Minnesota keeps employing shady characters that bring down the value of the organization? Why should tax payers be forced to pay for an organization that laughs at responsibility and the law? |
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vike daddy
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 66566
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| thestonedkoala wrote: | | We have enough character concern guys on this roster. |
gawd, you hate the Vikings so much.
please note that "character concerns" weren't really an issue for Simpson. many testified to his positive, charitable nature and even the sentencing judge remarked on it.
but hey, i guess you know better.
| thestonedkoala wrote: | | You don't think that plays in the mind of those funding the stadium? Why should they fund a stadium if Minnesota keeps employing shady characters that bring down the value of the organization? Why should tax payers be forced to pay for an organization that laughs at responsibility and the law? |
it doesn't appear to play in to their minds at all, given it's never been used as a reason to not support the stadium funding.
plus, if you actually read news reports you'll see that the funding is advancing at the same time Simpson was given a contract.
but again, you must know more than everyone else.
some guys make mistakes and run afoul of the law. some guys put others at risk with their mistakes. Jared Allen certainly did, and repeatedly. Percy Harvin also.
some guys clean themselves up and become very worth members of society. we are a forgiving society. try it some time.
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thestonedkoala
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3798
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| vike daddy wrote: |
some guys clean themselves up and become very worth members of society. we are a forgiving society. try it some time. |
Yes, because that worked out so well with guys like McKinnie, Doss, Robinson, Moss, Smith...and a dozen other guys on this roster...
We keep bringing in character concern guys and it's going to stack against Minnesota.
This organization needs to avoid these types at all costs until we can build our reputation back as a classy organization. |
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vike daddy
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 66566
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| thestonedkoala wrote: | | Yes, because that worked out so well with guys like McKinnie, Doss, Robinson, Moss, Smith...and a dozen other guys on this roster... |
yet you ignore Allen, Harvin, Cris Carter, and others who DID clean up their acts and serve as wonderful role models for others who still need to.
| thestonedkoala wrote: | | This organization needs to avoid these types at all costs until we can build our reputation back as a classy organization. |
are you backing off your statement that character concerns tie in to a reluctance to fund the stadium? you seemed pretty adamant about that earlier.
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| Webmaster wrote: | | Can we knock off all the nonsense and stick to football? |
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PrplChilPill
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 7793
Location: SLP, MN
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:39 am Post subject: |
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Regardless of his off field stuff, its not like his onfield production is all that good.....I'm not sure how good he really is, as Cincy is rumored to be drafting a WR, I assume if he was that good, and his HC loves him so much, that they'd have re-signed him.
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