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If Claiborne and Richardson are gone...
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Diesel00


Joined: 09 Aug 2008
Posts: 295
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lil' Shorty wrote:
Caaddy24 wrote:
Lil' Shorty wrote:
Take Kalil... really? Um no.

We have a Pro Bowl LT and we are going to take Kalil? 1st. No one takes a RT with the 5th pick. 2nd. Kalil is not fit to play RT in the NFL. He is to small and quick. RTs need to be big and maulers. Kalil is neither of these things.

If we dont get Claiborne or Richardson we trade down and get what we can. Taking Gilmore, Kirkpatrick or Kuechly while adding a 3rd or higher draft pick would be a much better option. You want a playmaker, get an impact defensive player on the leagues worst defense. Not an OL man. OL are not game changers.


agreed on not taking kalil, there's no way we take him with Penn at LT, thats just too much money invested in the offensive line with so many other holes on the team

I say Kuechly

Exactly. There are many other holes on this team and OL is definitely not even close to a need or a position that needs to be improved. I would not like having to take Kuechly that high and there are parts of his game that worry me enough that I would want to steer clear period, but if we got screwed hard enough to where we couldnt even trade down I say Kuechly is who we should take.

With that said, if Kalil is on the board at 5, some team will want to trade up and we will not be stuck at that pick. There is just no way we dont find a trade partner so Im not worried about getting stuck at 5 with Kalil if the worst did happen.

Also, to the people who say we should take Kalil. Please answer this for me. The only argument for taking Kalil I am hearing is that he is an elite talent. Ok.. what if Andrew Luck was at our pick and he was the last true elite talent left in the draft. Do we take him if we cant find a trade partner? Absolutely not. Sure this is an extreme example but I think you guys get what Im saying. Just because there is 1 elite talent left available at a position that is already filled and filled well I might add, does not mean that you take him because he is BPA. That would be absolutely ridiculous for us to take Kalil.


I always been the type of person that would draft by bpa and not for position but I understand where you are coming from. I think when you draft for position one might be reaching a tad for a player. Also Stephen Gilmore I have been hearing is a top 10 player now. Not sure how true that is but if I remember correctly he is #2 CB in draft.
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bucsEST96


Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 2215
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its funny everyone on the Kuechly bandwagon now. I bring him up a month ago-"oh he's ruud2.0", "can't cover". "can't blitz" now that the scholar Claiborne won't be there you've ppl opened your eyes
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sandman2300


Joined: 08 Apr 2012
Posts: 69
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pick is Kalil- everyone that says Kuechly just isn't thinking straight.

He is a VERY good LB- but he doesn't have the elite skill set teams picking the top 5 expect to get- obviously if we dropped down- hell yes thats a pick. But top 5 you take an elite talent- Kalil is that

The "too much money invested" theory doesn't apply anymore. The pay scale makes it easy to afford just about any pick and fact is- penn didn't play great last year and he's actually older than people think.

Also, Penn DOES have the ability to slide over to RT because he has the size and strength of True without the idiotic penalties.

With no trade down- take the top LT in recent years and shore up your blindside for the next 10-15 years.
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indifference


Joined: 08 Nov 2010
Posts: 1848
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lil' Shorty wrote:

Also, to the people who say we should take Kalil. Please answer this for me. The only argument for taking Kalil I am hearing is that he is an elite talent. Ok.. what if Andrew Luck was at our pick and he was the last true elite talent left in the draft. Do we take him if we cant find a trade partner? Absolutely not. Sure this is an extreme example but I think you guys get what Im saying. Just because there is 1 elite talent left available at a position that is already filled and filled well I might add, does not mean that you take him because he is BPA. That would be absolutely ridiculous for us to take Kalil.
Horrible comparison. You can't compare Kalil to Luck like that. For one, Kalil can actually play at a spot. Its not like Trueblood is good or anything. And stop acting like everything is guaranteed. You and I know don't know what will happen on draft day. There's NO reason to assume we are guaranteed a trading partner on draft day. That's just stilly. Is it possible, yes but to act like if Kalil is there we WILL have a caller for his services is ridiculous.

And for the record, Penn is not as good as you think. He has his games where he plays well but he also has very bad games. He certainly was not a pro bowl LT last year. Secondly, Penn is big enough to play RT in this league. So even if Kalil doesn't "fit at RT" we can just switch them out. Kalil has All-Pro potential in the mold of Joe Thomas yet we're content with Penn who will never be an all pro in his career.

Kuechly just isn't a top 5 talent, in any draft class, period. He is a good LB prospect but he isn't a complete linebacker. He is not the type of linebacker to blitz a gap, go straight head on with a FB/OL shed the block and get in the backfield. If I'm taking a linebacker that high he better be able to rush the passer, cover, and shed blocks and make plays. In the mold of LaVar Arrington, Peter Boulware, Aaron Curry, and Von Miller. Kuechly at #5 is such a joke its beyond comical.
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indifference


Joined: 08 Nov 2010
Posts: 1848
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sandman2300 wrote:
The pick is Kalil- everyone that says Kuechly just isn't thinking straight.

He is a VERY good LB- but he doesn't have the elite skill set teams picking the top 5 expect to get- obviously if we dropped down- hell yes thats a pick. But top 5 you take an elite talent- Kalil is that

The "too much money invested" theory doesn't apply anymore. The pay scale makes it easy to afford just about any pick and fact is- penn didn't play great last year and he's actually older than people think.

Also, Penn DOES have the ability to slide over to RT because he has the size and strength of True without the idiotic penalties.

With no trade down- take the top LT in recent years and shore up your blindside for the next 10-15 years.
Exactly. Plus, Penn won't be here in 4-5 years so, Kalil makes even more since.

And as you pointed out, if Kuehcly had pass rush ability I would be ALL for taking him that early. He does everything and will do everything for the defense but I just feel if we want to take a guy that can make tackles, have gap integrity, drop in coverage, and take good angles, we can wait later to get a linebacker like that.
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bucsEST96


Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 2215
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate draft time because it's just an excuse forbppl to talk out their anus about things they don't know. LUKE KUECHLY WAS NEVER ASK TO PASS RUSH AT BC SO HOW CAN U SAY HE DOESN'T DO IT?AND. IN WHT FOOTBALL WORLD DOES A MLB CONSTANTLY BLITZ?
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indifference


Joined: 08 Nov 2010
Posts: 1848
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucsEST96 wrote:
I hate draft time because it's just an excuse forbppl to talk out their anus about things they don't know. LUKE KUECHLY WAS NEVER ASK TO PASS RUSH AT BC SO HOW CAN U SAY HE DOESN'T DO IT?AND. IN WHT FOOTBALL WORLD DOES A MLB CONSTANTLY BLITZ?

Thanks for stating the obvious, captain. Pretty sure everyone knows he wasn't asked to do that at Boston College. You should apply reading comprehension in your post, it'll cause less of a confusion.

But, I'll play for fun.....in what football world do teams take a linebacker in the top 5 that cannot rush the passer? My posts made it clear that, Kuehcly isn't worth taking because he was never a pass rusher in college. And you can find linebackers like him in just about everywhere in the draft.
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eggybucsfan31


Joined: 27 Feb 2008
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Location: Westerly RI
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, Kuechly is a huge reach at #5. I'd rather take Barron at 5 than Kuechly.

If we can't trade down, take Kalil. As someone else said earlier, Penn has the skillset to play RT.
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Seminolebuc


Joined: 03 Jul 2010
Posts: 966
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucsEST96 wrote:
Its funny everyone on the Kuechly bandwagon now. I bring him up a month ago-"oh he's ruud2.0", "can't cover". "can't blitz" now that the scholar Claiborne won't be there you've ppl opened your eyes

I still think he is Ruud 2.0 and i dont want the bucs to pick him. I watched the guy play for the last few years and hes very underwhelming. That BC system always funnels tackles right into that MLB and all he has to do is just square up well or just jump on the pile.
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Lil' Shorty


Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3171
Location: NC...surrounded by lame Panther fans.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

indifference wrote:
Lil' Shorty wrote:

Also, to the people who say we should take Kalil. Please answer this for me. The only argument for taking Kalil I am hearing is that he is an elite talent. Ok.. what if Andrew Luck was at our pick and he was the last true elite talent left in the draft. Do we take him if we cant find a trade partner? Absolutely not. Sure this is an extreme example but I think you guys get what Im saying. Just because there is 1 elite talent left available at a position that is already filled and filled well I might add, does not mean that you take him because he is BPA. That would be absolutely ridiculous for us to take Kalil.
Horrible comparison. You can't compare Kalil to Luck like that. For one, Kalil can actually play at a spot. Its not like Trueblood is good or anything. And stop acting like everything is guaranteed. You and I know don't know what will happen on draft day. There's NO reason to assume we are guaranteed a trading partner on draft day. That's just stilly. Is it possible, yes but to act like if Kalil is there we WILL have a caller for his services is ridiculous.

And for the record, Penn is not as good as you think. He has his games where he plays well but he also has very bad games. He certainly was not a pro bowl LT last year. Secondly, Penn is big enough to play RT in this league. So even if Kalil doesn't "fit at RT" we can just switch them out. Kalil has All-Pro potential in the mold of Joe Thomas yet we're content with Penn who will never be an all pro in his career.

Kuechly just isn't a top 5 talent, in any draft class, period. He is a good LB prospect but he isn't a complete linebacker. He is not the type of linebacker to blitz a gap, go straight head on with a FB/OL shed the block and get in the backfield. If I'm taking a linebacker that high he better be able to rush the passer, cover, and shed blocks and make plays. In the mold of LaVar Arrington, Peter Boulware, Aaron Curry, and Von Miller. Kuechly at #5 is such a joke its beyond comical.

First of all the comparison I made makes complete sense. There is a solid player at a position and drafting another one at the same position when it is a strength is stupid. All analogies break down at some point. I think you understood what I meant.

Also, if we do draft Kalil it has to be to play LT. He is not a RT in the NFL and I think we all agree on that. If we did do that we better get on the phone with Donald Penn right away and talk to him about playing RT because if he throws a tantrum this move will be counter productive. Sure he is big enough to do it but to blindside him with this pick is not fair to him. Sure we will not dictate our draft around players feelings but I think Penn, to a degree, should be ok with moving to RT before we just take Kalil, if it came to that. I never denied that Kuechly would be a reach at 5 and plus I also said parts of his game worry me, but I would rather fill a need that drafting a luxury. Whether that is Kuechly at 5 or not my feelings on that will still be the same.
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Caaddy24


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 5519
Location: Houston
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sandman2300 wrote:
The pick is Kalil- everyone that says Kuechly just isn't thinking straight.

He is a VERY good LB- but he doesn't have the elite skill set teams picking the top 5 expect to get- obviously if we dropped down- hell yes thats a pick. But top 5 you take an elite talent- Kalil is that

The "too much money invested" theory doesn't apply anymore. The pay scale makes it easy to afford just about any pick and fact is- penn didn't play great last year and he's actually older than people think.

Also, Penn DOES have the ability to slide over to RT because he has the size and strength of True without the idiotic penalties.

With no trade down- take the top LT in recent years and shore up your blindside for the next 10-15 years.


The "too much money invested" does apply because i'm not talking about the rookie contract, I'm talking about after that contract is up, he's gonna want to get paid, so we either give him a huge contract or let him go. We just signed 2 guards to big contracts and Penn to a good contract, not to mention Trueblood being overpayed.

Penn is not just a good LT, he's probably the leader of the offensive line because of his play and personality. If anything it would be kalil going to RT.

People have Kuechly 7 overall on their draft boards, so reaching 2 spots to grab our #1 need in a crappy situation doesn't seem too bad to me... Do we really want Quincy Black at MLB?
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Soul Glo


Joined: 22 Nov 2009
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Location: FL
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we are going to stay at five we need to take Claiborne, Richardson, Khalil, or Blackmon. People who are saying they'd have Kuelchy than Khalil are looking way too far into need. Need picks never turn out good, Kuelchy is not good value top five... at all.
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bucsEST96


Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 2215
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seminolebuc wrote:
bucsEST96 wrote:
Its funny everyone on the Kuechly bandwagon now. I bring him up a month ago-"oh he's ruud2.0", "can't cover". "can't blitz" now that the scholar Claiborne won't be there you've ppl opened your eyes

I still think he is Ruud 2.0 and i dont want the bucs to pick him. I watched the guy play for the last few years and hes very underwhelming. That BC system always funnels tackles right into that MLB and all he has to do is just square up well or just jump on the pile.


Just stop talking please, you just showed your cards because I know for a fact you've never seen him play or his film. Dude is all over the damn field and you talking bout he got guys funneled to him lmaooooo
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indifference


Joined: 08 Nov 2010
Posts: 1848
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lil' Shorty wrote:

First of all the comparison I made makes complete sense. There is a solid player at a position and drafting another one at the same position when it is a strength is stupid. All analogies break down at some point. I think you understood what I meant.
Why are we ignoring Penn > Trueblood with the addition of Kalil? We draft the same position and move the solid player to the different position. As for QB's, you can't field two QB's at once. As for tackles, I believe Kalil and Penn can both play at the same time.

Lil' Shorty wrote:

Also, if we do draft Kalil it has to be to play LT. He is not a RT in the NFL and I think we all agree on that. If we did do that we better get on the phone with Donald Penn right away and talk to him about playing RT because if he throws a tantrum this move will be counter productive. Sure he is big enough to do it but to blindside him with this pick is not fair to him. Sure we will not dictate our draft around players feelings but I think Penn, to a degree, should be ok with moving to RT before we just take Kalil, if it came to that. I never denied that Kuechly would be a reach at 5 and plus I also said parts of his game worry me, but I would rather fill a need that drafting a luxury. Whether that is Kuechly at 5 or not my feelings on that will still be the same.

The NFL is a business. I don't think its fair for any coach that has to have the consent from his players to move positions. Who is Penn working for anyway? If he has a problem, bench his [inappropriate/removed] or deal him. We don't have time to deal with selfish individuals. Besides, Penn isn't even an stud player so to me moving him to the other side - shouldn't be a problem. It means he is just a better fit for the team. If Kalil pans out to be an elite caliber Tackle something Penn isn't, I don't see why Penn can't swallow his pride and accept his role at a different position. At the end of the day, he is getting paid his money and already received most of his guaranteed money. I just don't see a problem with Penn accepting to play on a different side.
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indifference


Joined: 08 Nov 2010
Posts: 1848
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caaddy24 wrote:
sandman2300 wrote:
The pick is Kalil- everyone that says Kuechly just isn't thinking straight.

He is a VERY good LB- but he doesn't have the elite skill set teams picking the top 5 expect to get- obviously if we dropped down- hell yes thats a pick. But top 5 you take an elite talent- Kalil is that

The "too much money invested" theory doesn't apply anymore. The pay scale makes it easy to afford just about any pick and fact is- penn didn't play great last year and he's actually older than people think.

Also, Penn DOES have the ability to slide over to RT because he has the size and strength of True without the idiotic penalties.

With no trade down- take the top LT in recent years and shore up your blindside for the next 10-15 years.


The "too much money invested" does apply because i'm not talking about the rookie contract, I'm talking about after that contract is up, he's gonna want to get paid, so we either give him a huge contract or let him go. We just signed 2 guards to big contracts and Penn to a good contract, not to mention Trueblood being overpayed.

Penn is not just a good LT, he's probably the leader of the offensive line because of his play and personality. If anything it would be kalil going to RT.

People have Kuechly 7 overall on their draft boards, so reaching 2 spots to grab our #1 need in a crappy situation doesn't seem too bad to me... Do we really want Quincy Black at MLB?
Davin Joseph would like a word with you.......
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