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Is Alshon Jeffery's deep speed underrated?
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indifference


Joined: 08 Nov 2010
Posts: 1828
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
PowerElite wrote:
Cut on the tape, poor separation...


Actually, not at all true but your opinion on him probably comes from a few youtube clips.



You probably do the same thing Laughing
Considering he is a South Carolina fan, I'm pretty sure he knows more about their players than most casual fans.

And to answer the question, yeah he has deceptive speed. He ran by Dennard many times in that bowl game. Granted, Dennard isn't a blazer himself he is still an agile quick twitch CB. Now, if you put the Florida tape on from a year prior when Jenkins blanketed him, its a different story. Too bad Jenkins is an idiot b/c he'd be a top 10 pick had he come out Florida.
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nugpimpen


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

indifference wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
PowerElite wrote:
Cut on the tape, poor separation...


Actually, not at all true but your opinion on him probably comes from a few youtube clips.



You probably do the same thing Laughing
Considering he is a South Carolina fan, I'm pretty sure he knows more about their players than most casual fans.

And to answer the question, yeah he has deceptive speed. He ran by Dennard many times in that bowl game. Granted, Dennard isn't a blazer himself he is still an agile quick twitch CB. Now, if you put the Florida tape on from a year prior when Jenkins blanketed him, its a different story. Too bad Jenkins is an idiot b/c he'd be a top 10 pick had he come out Florida.


Which makes him more likely to wear his homer shades. Wink
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Gmen


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

His playing weight was too high, and the tape shows he couldn't separate as a result. But he looked good running at 216. Whoever drafts him will need to make sure he stays at that weight.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nugpimpen wrote:
indifference wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
PowerElite wrote:
Cut on the tape, poor separation...


Actually, not at all true but your opinion on him probably comes from a few youtube clips.



You probably do the same thing Laughing
Considering he is a South Carolina fan, I'm pretty sure he knows more about their players than most casual fans.

And to answer the question, yeah he has deceptive speed. He ran by Dennard many times in that bowl game. Granted, Dennard isn't a blazer himself he is still an agile quick twitch CB. Now, if you put the Florida tape on from a year prior when Jenkins blanketed him, its a different story. Too bad Jenkins is an idiot b/c he'd be a top 10 pick had he come out Florida.


Which makes him more likely to wear his homer shades. Wink


Some of us are lucky enough to be able to avoid them. I evaluate SC players very fairly if you read all my evaluations. I am just really high on Alshon because I've seen what he can do at the top of his game.
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pnies20


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is his deep speed underrated? No because he has trouble gaining separation.
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Inspector71


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for taking the time to post this jrry32.

It pretty much verifies what I have noticed when watching him. He seems to seperate better when he runs a deeper pattern.

I really like him as a Propsepct and I will not be surprised if he ends up being the best WR in this class.

Would look good in Brown and Orange.
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mitchconnor


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This makes sense to me.

I think he's the best deep threat in the draft, and could very well be the best overall wr in the class.
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McMorrow_922


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best areciever in the draft. Will be a steal in the 2nd.
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Chrissooner49er


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alshon's supposed speed did not show up this season due to playing at a much higher weight for a WR (at least 15-20 lb difference). Now why didn't he run at the Combine if his weight was down already? RED FLAG. Instead, he waits until his pro day and suddenly it's a pretty fast time. SUSPECT.
He will have to prove he can stay at this 'streamlined' weight and not lapse into old habits. Otherwise, his career will go the same way as others before him...failure.
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Speedyg


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:51 am    Post subject: Re: Is Alshon Jeffery's deep speed underrated? Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
Jeffery's 40 yard dash at his Pro Day went like this:
10 yard split - 1.64
20 yard split - 2.63
40 yard split - 4.48

10 to 20 yards - 0.99 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.85 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.84 seconds

I know you're wondering what my point is here. Look at Alshon's 10 yard split, it's VERY slow for a WR. Which is why I've made the point again and again that he doesn't possess great initial burst. He builds up speed. For a smaller WR, this would be an issue but on the vast majority of the routes that need burst, Alshon's big body, physicality and great hands will allow him to make the catch even with a defender on him.

Here's where it gets very interesting. Some have wondered how Alshon is such an effective intermediate to deep threat despite not looking fast on tape. I've always said that he has deceptive deep speed due to his long strides and I'm going to attempt to confirm that.

Julio Jones:
10 yard split - 1.50
20 yard split - 2.47
40 yard split - 4.34

10 to 20 yards - 0.97 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.87 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.84 seconds

Percy Harvin:
10 yard split - 1.47
20 yard split - 2.51
40 yard split - 4.39

10 to 20 yards - 1.04 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.88 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.92 seconds

DeSean Jackson:
10 yard split - 1.53
20 yard split - 2.52
40 yard split - 4.35

10 to 20 yards - 0.99 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.83 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.82 seconds

What I'm attempting to show here is that once Alshon is up to speed, surprisingly, he's actually quite fast. He takes time to build up to speed but from the 10 yard mark to the finish, he was faster than Percy Harvin, tied with Julio Jones and only .02 seconds slower than DeSean Jackson.

Here are some similarly sized WRs with similar 40s(4.46 to 4.51) to show that this isn't a normal thing for big WRs:
Hakeem Nicks:
10 yard split - 1.52
20 yard split - 2.60
40 yard split - 4.51

10 to 20 yards - 1.08 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.91 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.99 seconds

Kenny Britt:
10 yard split - 1.56
20 yard split - 2.62
40 yard split - 4.50

10 to 20 yards - 1.06 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.88 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.94 seconds

Carlton Mitchell:
10 yard split - 1.52
20 yard split - 2.60
40 yard split - 4.46

10 to 20 yards - 1.08 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.86 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.94 seconds

AJ Green:
10 yard split - 1.55
20 yard split - 2.53
40 yard split - 4.48

10 to 20 yards - 0.98 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.95 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.93 seconds

Jonathan Baldwin:
10 yard split - 1.58
20 yard split - 2.57
40 yard split - 4.49

10 to 20 yards - 0.99 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.92 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.91 seconds

Limas Sweed:
10 yard split - 1.54
20 yard split - 2.62
40 yard split - 4.48

10 to 20 yards - 1.08 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.86 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.94 seconds

Justin Blackmon:
10 yard split - 1.53
20 yard split - 2.60
40 yard split - 4.46

10 to 20 yards - 1.07 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.86 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.93 seconds

What am I saying? Alshon doesn't have burst but he has great build up speed. Those saying he's possession WR and chain mover are pretty much stating the opposite of what his strengths are. His speed translates to attacking the intermediate and deep areas of a defense because once he reaches his top end speed, he's fast.


Out of curiosity, do you have Matt Jones' comparative times to Alshon?
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TheVillain112


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:57 am    Post subject: Re: Is Alshon Jeffery's deep speed underrated? Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
Jeffery's 40 yard dash at his Pro Day went like this:
10 yard split - 1.64
20 yard split - 2.63
40 yard split - 4.48

10 to 20 yards - 0.99 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.85 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.84 seconds


Chris Henry when he came out of WVU:

10 Yard split: 1.64 seconds
20 Yard split: 2.68 seconds
40 Yard split: 4.50 seconds

10 to 20 yards - 1.04 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.82 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.86 seconds

If the numbers I got for Henry are accurate, he's pretty close to Jeffery. And Chris Henry didn't have any issues running by DB's in the NFL...
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mikeyfarley


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

indifference wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
PowerElite wrote:
Cut on the tape, poor separation...


Actually, not at all true but your opinion on him probably comes from a few youtube clips.



You probably do the same thing Laughing
Considering he is a South Carolina fan, I'm pretty sure he knows more about their players than most casual fans.

And to answer the question, yeah he has deceptive speed. He ran by Dennard many times in that bowl game. Granted, Dennard isn't a blazer himself he is still an agile quick twitch CB. Now, if you put the Florida tape on from a year prior when Jenkins blanketed him, its a different story. Too bad Jenkins is an idiot b/c he'd be a top 10 pick had he come out Florida.


You're making it out like Jeffery did nothing in that game. He didn't burn Jenkins deep for any huge gains or TDs, but he was productive.

"Alshon Jeffery, the SEC's leading receiver, came up with several key third-down receptions among his six catches for 53 yards."

http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=303170057
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mikeyfarley


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Is Alshon Jeffery's deep speed underrated? Reply with quote

Speedyg wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
Jeffery's 40 yard dash at his Pro Day went like this:
10 yard split - 1.64
20 yard split - 2.63
40 yard split - 4.48

10 to 20 yards - 0.99 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.85 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.84 seconds

I know you're wondering what my point is here. Look at Alshon's 10 yard split, it's VERY slow for a WR. Which is why I've made the point again and again that he doesn't possess great initial burst. He builds up speed. For a smaller WR, this would be an issue but on the vast majority of the routes that need burst, Alshon's big body, physicality and great hands will allow him to make the catch even with a defender on him.

Here's where it gets very interesting. Some have wondered how Alshon is such an effective intermediate to deep threat despite not looking fast on tape. I've always said that he has deceptive deep speed due to his long strides and I'm going to attempt to confirm that.

Julio Jones:
10 yard split - 1.50
20 yard split - 2.47
40 yard split - 4.34

10 to 20 yards - 0.97 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.87 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.84 seconds

Percy Harvin:
10 yard split - 1.47
20 yard split - 2.51
40 yard split - 4.39

10 to 20 yards - 1.04 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.88 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.92 seconds

DeSean Jackson:
10 yard split - 1.53
20 yard split - 2.52
40 yard split - 4.35

10 to 20 yards - 0.99 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.83 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.82 seconds

What I'm attempting to show here is that once Alshon is up to speed, surprisingly, he's actually quite fast. He takes time to build up to speed but from the 10 yard mark to the finish, he was faster than Percy Harvin, tied with Julio Jones and only .02 seconds slower than DeSean Jackson.

Here are some similarly sized WRs with similar 40s(4.46 to 4.51) to show that this isn't a normal thing for big WRs:
Hakeem Nicks:
10 yard split - 1.52
20 yard split - 2.60
40 yard split - 4.51

10 to 20 yards - 1.08 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.91 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.99 seconds

Kenny Britt:
10 yard split - 1.56
20 yard split - 2.62
40 yard split - 4.50

10 to 20 yards - 1.06 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.88 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.94 seconds

Carlton Mitchell:
10 yard split - 1.52
20 yard split - 2.60
40 yard split - 4.46

10 to 20 yards - 1.08 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.86 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.94 seconds

AJ Green:
10 yard split - 1.55
20 yard split - 2.53
40 yard split - 4.48

10 to 20 yards - 0.98 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.95 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.93 seconds

Jonathan Baldwin:
10 yard split - 1.58
20 yard split - 2.57
40 yard split - 4.49

10 to 20 yards - 0.99 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.92 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.91 seconds

Limas Sweed:
10 yard split - 1.54
20 yard split - 2.62
40 yard split - 4.48

10 to 20 yards - 1.08 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.86 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.94 seconds

Justin Blackmon:
10 yard split - 1.53
20 yard split - 2.60
40 yard split - 4.46

10 to 20 yards - 1.07 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.86 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.93 seconds

What am I saying? Alshon doesn't have burst but he has great build up speed. Those saying he's possession WR and chain mover are pretty much stating the opposite of what his strengths are. His speed translates to attacking the intermediate and deep areas of a defense because once he reaches his top end speed, he's fast.


Out of curiosity, do you have Matt Jones' comparative times to Alshon?


Matt Jones had a 1.55 10 yard split, 2.54 20 yd, and 4.37 40 yd
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WhackyPlague


Joined: 25 May 2008
Posts: 5007
Location: Orlando, FL
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm wary of trying to make this kind of analysis based off of a Pro Day time, which are notoriously unreliable.

That said... 216 seems like a much better weight for him. My opinion of Jeffrey has improved a bit, but I don't see any reason to rank him higher than the 3rd or 4th WR in this draft (probably a safer pick than Hill, but less potential).
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InmanRoshi


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Posts: 65
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Is Alshon Jeffery's deep speed underrated? Reply with quote

Speedyg wrote:

Out of curiosity, do you have Matt Jones' comparative times to Alshon?


Or Limas Sweeds.
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