Which Corner is the Odd Man Out?

[Jacobys Homey]

So this is a scenario i've been thinking about for a while now, and will be even more interesting to look at after the draft.

Going into the draft we have:
JJoe
Ice Kareem
McCain
Harris
McManis
Carmichael

We also know that Rick Smith is very vocal about having too many guys that can cover, so you can bank on us drafting another corner.

With a rookie being drafted in the top 5 rounds pretty much having a guarantee of making the roster (whether it be on IR on gameday inactive, whatever) who do you see as the odd man out here? Does the FO possibly try and flip one of these guys for a draft pick?

I honestly don't have the slightest clue what happens. I'd love to hear y'alls input.
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Did you feel the mountains tremble?

[jch1911]

McManis.... go bbye

[lumberjackchris]

Great question and it really is tough to saw

JJoe- next
KJax- lock
Mccain- as well as he played the slot last season has to stay
Mccmanis- eh I could see his return ability keep him here unless we draft a guy like TY Hilton or Joe Adams
Harris- to high of a draft pick cut this soon (not his fault Mccain played so well)
Carmichael- didn't get to prove himself with his injury last year, dont think we let him go

I guess it's between Mcmanis and Carmichael
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^Kempes on the sick sig^

[Texansfan713]

Joseph- Obviously he is staying with us.
Kareem-Coaches say they expect him to start opposite JJ this season.
McCain-No way he gets replaced. He will be our nickle corner back at worst this season.
Harris-Didn't get his fair share of ops this season, but I expect him to. We traded up in the draft to get him.
McManis-Been with our team the longest out of the young corners minus Kareem. Only real value he has with us is return ability.
Carmichael-Didn't prove anything this past season due to him being on the IR. but I doubt we let him go so soon. Hell, we kept on giving Molden chances.

If I had to guess who would be the odd man out it would be McManis do the our other guys either being better than him or hasn't had their fair chance to play for us.
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2011 and 2012 AFC South Champs

[amazingandre]

Im sure none are cut, we just stash them away on PS or on IR island....
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Adopt a Texan :Trindon Holliday
15.7 per attempt KR / 14 per attempt PR

[jargin]

Either Roc or McManus.

I doubt we let go of one of our 2nd round picks from last year. Keep in mind that we love to stash people on IR so if one of these guys bump their toes in mini camp they could spend a season at the "Texans IR Resort" as Apollo calls it.
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[quote="amazingandre"]Do me a favor and never quote me again[/quote]

[bunnyracin]

Cut Kareem, slide Mccain opposite to Joseph and Harris will take over Mccain's nickel job. Now we have no one on our defense we can blame everything for!

Na, Mcmanis is gone
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[Jacobys Homey]

I'm not so quick to get rid of McManis. His size/speed is actually a pretty rare combo. I look for him to get a TON of reps in preseason.
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Did you feel the mountains tremble?

[longhorntexan]

I'd look for us to stand pat. Maybe draft another late round flier to stash away, but I think this is the core we're running next year. Hope Kareem is ready for full time in prime time. Sure wasn't his rookie year.
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"You may all go to Hell, and I will go to Texas."
-Davy Crockett

[texansfan]

I wouldn't say it is a lock we will take a corner. The staff went out and drafted Harris and Carmichael, and I am sure they would like a full offseason with them. Couple that with Mccain, K-Jax, and J-Joe, and I don't see too much room for someone to sneak in. Let's see what we have with these guys first.
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[Wolf6151]

I don't think that any of these guys are the odd man out because I don't think we draft a CB unless someone that's just to good of a value to turn down falls to us. With the premium put on CB's, that's not happening. Also this is not a good CB class. I think the Texans still haven't seen what they got from last years CB's, Harris and Carmichael, so they won't be wasting any picks on a late round CB.

[treece300e]

[Apollo Stallion]

2 part answer:

I really think we need to view our secondary in more fluid terms, much like Barwin plays OLB in base, DE in passing situations, Antonio Smith plays DE & DT and even NT, and a role player like Jamison comes in exclusively in 4-3 pass rush situations.

Johnathan Joseph, Daniel Manning, and Glover Quin were all out there nearly every down regardless of situation.

I didn't find a hard-fast rule to when Kareem Jackson was in vs. Jason Allen, but in general it seemed that Jackson was out there in base and most zone situations, while Allen came in situations where he was more likely to be covering man to man and saw more action in games vs. speed receivers and less in games with possession types. It was close to a 50/50 split and I rarely saw them on the field together.

Nickel situations is where I think there is significant misunderstanding both by some posters and media. Glover Quin moved up to cover slot receivers at the line and either Troy Nolan (early season) or Quinton Demps (late season) played SS. This concept that Brice McCain was our nickle back is just flat wrong. He was our 3rd CB on the field, but that was almost exclusively in DIME situations which are almost exclusively zone. He does see the field plenty against teams like the Colts that involve a bunch of targets, but he is a ghost against any team featuring a traditional 2-3 receiver attack. We also tend to use him against Mike Thomas for the Jags for obvious reasons and he did see the field against the Steelers more because their WRs are short and KJ had to take a mental health week off after humiliated by Brees/Moore. For those who think McCain is such a vital part of our defense, I ask you if he even saw the field in the playoffs but for garbage time prevent in the Bengals blowout. His stats look good because he is only on the field in situations where the deck is completely stacked against the offense. He did what he was asked to do well (unlike 2010), but what he was asked to do was very limited.

That gets us to Harris. The way I see it, he was drafted to play the role Glover Quin is currently playing. He doesn't have the long speed or size to hang with the #1 or #2 heading deep, but has the potential to be the guy who prevents Drew Brees from marching down the field in 5-15 yard increments to Lance Moore. He doesn't need to beat out McCain for reps, he needs to beat out Quin in covering the slot or have the difference between Quin covering a dangerous TE vs. Nolan/Demps be great than the risk from the slot. I think McCain tops out in dime situations which are almost always zone.

I don't see McManus as more than a zone body and special teamer who was drafted to push unreliable Molden off the roster. Similarly, I think Carmichael was taken to fill the McCain role as the tough zone guy who could occasionally make a play with a big hit and mug guys underneath with support over the top. McCain was a dead man walking heading into camp last year, but Carmichael was nicked up and McCain took to Vance quite well.
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Ten Year Texans Season Ticket Holder
Adopt a Texan 2012
Derek Newton - RT - #75 - Arkansas State
Antoine Caldwell - RG - #62 - Alabama

[EliteTexan80]

[Apollo Stallion]

Part 2 - Who makes it?

#2 CB - Are the Texans confident enough in KJ to hand him the 50% of downs that Allen played last year? Are they willing to essentially fly without a net like in 2010 knowing that we have no option on the roster to turn to if KJ starts getting burned deep again and his confidence craters. They HAVE to be aware that he is prone to meltdowns and that the home crowd has him in their sights. If I'm drafting and another potential starter (Kirkpatrick or Gilmore) is sitting there you almost have to pull the trigger. Alternatively, I can see Rick falling in love with another Va Tech guy in Jayron Hosley in the 2nd as he is good in the areas where Jackson isn't (speed, flipping hips, playmaking), but lacking in bulk and tackling so essentially he takes on the Jason Allen role. He's also a solid punt returner which lets us ditch Jacoby assuming we grab a WR in the first.

Nickle - I see this as the most complicated battle on the team. If you look at the schedule, it is loaded with teams featuring TE's as primary weapons which means a premium on coverage skills at SS. Personally, I'd much rather see Quin stick back there full-time and have either Jackson or Harris take over the true nickle slot role. If we intend on keeping Quin back there full time, I think that opens up the playing time for Harris with he and McCain splitting Nickle/Dime duties. Then the battle shifts to one between Keo, McManus, and Carmichael for 2 spots with special teams being the primary role.

#3 Safety - Another one with some flux. This is a borderline starting position if we play it like last year which Quin playing the slot. I think there is 1 spot for the coverage variety (Demps vs. Nolan) and one spot for more of a special teamer/extra tackler type role (Keo/Barber) which could easily be filled by a 6th CB like McManus or Carmichael this year instead of a 4th/5th safety. I'm not sure when it happened, but Nolan definitely fell out of favor with Demps pushing him off the field the final 6 games including the playoffs.

Here's how I see it, although I'm holding out hope we seek at least another option at #2 CB:

CB1 - Joseph
CB2 - Jackson
Nickel - McCain first 4-6 weeks, then Harris
Dime - Harris then McCain
CB5 - Carmichael
Special Teamer - McManus

FS - Manning
SS - Quin
SS3 - Demps

Cut: Nolan, Keo, Tori Williams (Keo & Williams as PS candidates)
Unsigned: Barber (unsigned)

I see it as an "come strong or not at all" situation with drafting CB as we either take one in the 1st or 2nd or no secondary members at all. If we do take one early, I think Harris and Carmichael are in trouble as Jackson, McCain, McManus are at least known quantities and I doubt we ever are comfortable going with multiple inexperienced components on the field ever again like 2010.
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Ten Year Texans Season Ticket Holder
Adopt a Texan 2012
Derek Newton - RT - #75 - Arkansas State
Antoine Caldwell - RG - #62 - Alabama