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Bears RB Matt Forte agree to 4-year deal worth $8M yearly
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GOGRIESE


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nabbs4u wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
Nabbs4u wrote:
Quote:
Last I had heard was that Emery's offer averages 8 mil a year with 20m guaranteed. The 13-14m offer was Jerry Angelo.


You have a link to this? Forte turning down an offer last season that was anywhere from 6-10 million less in guaranteed money then DW or CJ should be expected. I doubt the Emery above offer was ever made. I think it's more realistic that they (FO) are minimizing the years offered thus bringing down the overall guaranteed money. Hard to get the 20M if your offering 3-4 yr deals with basically only two guaranteed. If Forte had a Arian Foster or DW type offer or anything remotely close to it this would have been solved already IMO. This has as I have stated from the beginning of this thread a classic low ball, we have the power, you don't mentality written all over it. This is what I expect to have been offered

4yrs 30M ,12-14m Guaranteed (basically 2 years at 7M)
instead of

6yrs 50M, 20M Guaranteed. It's all about the Guaranteed money not the yrs for a aging RB. If he saw anything in the 20's Guaranteed this would be over IMO. If you look at it like a 7 yr rental since he was basically screwed his first 4yrs on a rookie deal it would still work to Chicago's favor having
Matt Forte for 7yrs 24 million dollars(Rookie deal+New Guaranteed). Anyone suggesting thats not a bargain at a little over 3 mil a season should get their head examined. At some point you have to reward a player for his previous production as well as what he can do in the future.


Bingo.

If he's offered anywhere from Marshawn Lynch to Arian Foster money, I can almost guarantee this is over with. And that's about the ballpark I expect him to eventually get and what he's worth.



Forte apparently wants a contract similar to the Chris Johnson/Adrian Peterson deals.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--lingering-nfl-offseason-issues--best-available-free-agents-and-winners-losers.html

I think if he wanted Arian Foster money this would have been over with.


Yet again another opinion by a writer deemed actual fact. He has no idea what Forte or Drew is asking for. He's guessing like everyone else. Drew Brees came out and said earlier this week at no time has he requested a 23m dollar per season avg. yet this fool prints it anyways. All writers are doing at this point is throwning enough crap against the wall hoping something sticks. I mean how could it not be 23m and AP type money request holding negotiations up? Surely it's not the opposite? Rolling Eyes


Actually Jason Cole isnt a fool. How do you know he has no idea?
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Nabbs4u


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^
Quote:
Actually Jason Cole isnt a fool. How do you know he has no idea?


How do you know he does? I know for a fact he is not present and inside the meetings between Drew Brees and the Saints FO nor the Bears and Forte's management. Are you suggesting one or the other is intentionally leaking news and inside information on contractual talks? If not how would he know what was said behind close doors? Every single media member tries to out scoop the rest when it comes to a story. It's what they do or should I say attempt to do. Throw enough numbers at the wall and surely somewhere between A-Z it will stick and I can scream from the roof tops, I was first to.....? Why is Cole any different then Joe Blow down the street who heard from Julie's second cousin removed ,who's happens to be the sister of one of the babies Daddy's Brother, who knows one of the staff members that frequents the Mens urinal and over heard Emery and Matt's agent discussing in depth details?
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FullCapacity


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMHO, the only thing that matters at this point, in my eyes, is that the longer that Forte waits, the less he's going to get.

The Bears are going to let him rot while other teams draft RBs and scour the existing FA pool and look for hidden gems from undrafted free agents and some through the wavier wire. As more teams commit, Forte's leverage becomes less and less.

This is like the guy trying to wait for the hottest chick ever to show up at a bar to go home with him, bypassing some pretty good looking women all night, until he finally realizes it's 2am and now the bar is going to close. The hottest chick ever he hoped for is never going to come. Now he has to settle for some greasy fat truck stop waitress with bad teeth and hair that looks like it was cut by a Flowbee.

Forte is waiting for a big deal that will never come. He didn't hold out a year and a half ago, that's on him and his representation. Making the max he can reasonably get now is about damage control.

Right now in his career, it's like 12:58am. He's got a little time left, but it's not like it was when it was 9pm the day before. His choices start to narrow. Time is running out.

The Bears are not going to offer him more money in guarantees than what they would have to pay to franchise him twice. Why would they do that? They expect him or any other player to take a discount for the team in order to guarantee that 2nd year. The Bears could franchise Forte, then dump him after this season and not franchise him again.

I think what people are forgetting is the new CBA. Draft picks are all making less now, but the trade off is they can hit free agency earlier. Cam Newton didn't sniff anything near what Bradford or Stafford got, but he walks free sooner in his career. There is a whole glut of RBs out there now, younger players, who are going to be coming faster and cheaper than ever before to try to take Forte's spot. The byproduct of the new CBA is teams have even more incentive now to cycle out veterans and see what their draft picks can do for them right now. You will never see a team taking a Aaron Rodgers and letting him sit for three years again. That's not enough time to evaluate if he can be your starter for the long haul.
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patman


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lomaxgr wrote:
I can't believe the Bears think they have leverage because of Michael Bush ... Bush isn't anywhere near the RB Matt Forte is. Forte is a much smoother runner with much better vision, he is a much better catching the ball out of the backfield and is better in pass pro.

If the Bears think Bush will come close to compensating for a potential loss of Forte, they are kidding themselves.


What the bears have is a quality back-up that can step in if forte decides to skip the 1st 8 games of the season and come back in time to get the season of service. Imagine where the bears will be without Bush, while it may not be direct leverage, reducing the impact of his sitting out does give the bears something.
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patman


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FullCapacity wrote:
IMHO, the only thing that matters at this point, in my eyes, is that the longer that Forte waits, the less he's going to get.

The Bears are going to let him rot while other teams draft RBs and scour the existing FA pool and look for hidden gems from undrafted free agents and some through the wavier wire. As more teams commit, Forte's leverage becomes less and less.

This is like the guy trying to wait for the hottest chick ever to show up at a bar to go home with him, bypassing some pretty good looking women all night, until he finally realizes it's 2am and now the bar is going to close. The hottest chick ever he hoped for is never going to come. Now he has to settle for some greasy fat truck stop waitress with bad teeth and hair that looks like it was cut by a Flowbee.

Forte is waiting for a big deal that will never come. He didn't hold out a year and a half ago, that's on him and his representation. Making the max he can reasonably get now is about damage control.

Right now in his career, it's like 12:58am. He's got a little time left, but it's not like it was when it was 9pm the day before. His choices start to narrow. Time is running out.

The Bears are not going to offer him more money in guarantees than what they would have to pay to franchise him twice. Why would they do that? They expect him or any other player to take a discount for the team in order to guarantee that 2nd year. The Bears could franchise Forte, then dump him after this season and not franchise him again.

I think what people are forgetting is the new CBA. Draft picks are all making less now, but the trade off is they can hit free agency earlier. Cam Newton didn't sniff anything near what Bradford or Stafford got, but he walks free sooner in his career. There is a whole glut of RBs out there now, younger players, who are going to be coming faster and cheaper than ever before to try to take Forte's spot. The byproduct of the new CBA is teams have even more incentive now to cycle out veterans and see what their draft picks can do for them right now. You will never see a team taking a Aaron Rodgers and letting him sit for three years again. That's not enough time to evaluate if he can be your starter for the long haul.


The pats took mallet 40 spots later than Rogers and will have him sit 4 years.
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iknowcool


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FullCapacity wrote:
You will never see a team taking a Aaron Rodgers and letting him sit for three years again.

I don't see why not. A-Rod's contract was 5 years of length, the same as the contracts in the first round nowadays. The only difference is teams have the option on whether they can take that fifth year or not; at least that is what is available to us in Newton's contract.
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eagles101


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FullCapacity wrote:
IMHO, the only thing that matters at this point, in my eyes, is that the longer that Forte waits, the less he's going to get.

The Bears are going to let him rot while other teams draft RBs and scour the existing FA pool and look for hidden gems from undrafted free agents and some through the wavier wire. As more teams commit, Forte's leverage becomes less and less.

This is like the guy trying to wait for the hottest chick ever to show up at a bar to go home with him, bypassing some pretty good looking women all night, until he finally realizes it's 2am and now the bar is going to close. The hottest chick ever he hoped for is never going to come. Now he has to settle for some greasy fat truck stop waitress with bad teeth and hair that looks like it was cut by a Flowbee.

Forte is waiting for a big deal that will never come. He didn't hold out a year and a half ago, that's on him and his representation. Making the max he can reasonably get now is about damage control.

Right now in his career, it's like 12:58am. He's got a little time left, but it's not like it was when it was 9pm the day before. His choices start to narrow. Time is running out.

The Bears are not going to offer him more money in guarantees than what they would have to pay to franchise him twice. Why would they do that? They expect him or any other player to take a discount for the team in order to guarantee that 2nd year. The Bears could franchise Forte, then dump him after this season and not franchise him again.

I think what people are forgetting is the new CBA. Draft picks are all making less now, but the trade off is they can hit free agency earlier. Cam Newton didn't sniff anything near what Bradford or Stafford got, but he walks free sooner in his career. There is a whole glut of RBs out there now, younger players, who are going to be coming faster and cheaper than ever before to try to take Forte's spot. The byproduct of the new CBA is teams have even more incentive now to cycle out veterans and see what their draft picks can do for them right now. You will never see a team taking a Aaron Rodgers and letting him sit for three years again. That's not enough time to evaluate if he can be your starter for the long haul.


i dont know what to start here.....i guess i'll just ask why wouldnt people not sit rodgers?
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I don't understand most of that, but I can tell it's probably inaccurate.
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FullCapacity


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eagles101 wrote:
i dont know what to start here.....i guess i'll just ask why wouldnt people not sit rodgers?



My basic point is teams have a much smaller window now with their draftees to see what they have in those players. The short term benefit to franchises it players make less upfront, no more of a situation where top picks are amongst the top paid at their positions without ever having taken a NFL snap yet. But truthfully that was only a very small handful of players at the top of the draft, the reason the players union gave, and all pro sports unions give up on rookie compensation and rights is the existing union in place is usually run by league veterans, looking out for veteran players like themselves.

The long term trade off is draftees reach free agency sooner. You have to make evaluations on whether you think that player can be a major contributor to you before you give him a market value contract. That's how teams win in the NFL. They need a certain percentage of their young players on rookie contracts outperforming those first contracts, this is how teams have depth, the ONLY way a NFL team in the current system can have depth and talent to survive injuries during the season.

What this means for Matt Forte is

- There are younger players out there looking to take his job. Players with less wear and tear and hits on them and will play for cheap to pay their dues

- Historically the running back position does not retain "high positional value" Elite QBs and left tackles tend to come from the first round of the NFL draft. You can find an outlier like Tom Brady or Kurt Warner once in a blue moon, but those are the exceptions , not the rule. In contrast, you can find an elite running back in the first round, or the sixth round, or as a street free agent.

Part of the issue is VORP. "Value Over Replacement Player" Where that hypothetical replacement player is given a metric at what the league average is for production at that position. Is paying Matt Forte X amount of dollars worth the extra production he would give you over a young low draft pick or undrafted free agent making 1/10th to 1/12th of the money but giving you Y production.

If the Bears pay Forte 10 million a year and get 1500 total yards, but could sign a young undrafted free agent for about a million and get 900 total yards, is it worth it to the Bears for 600 yards for that extra 9 million in salary? Can they make up that yardage and production in a cheaper and more efficient way? That's money that could be devoted to improving the O line. Or getting help at corner.

The new system means teams have more incentive and need now to evaluate their draft picks sooner and more effectively. The old system gave the drafting team some of those prime years. Now the new system could mean teams taking the risk to groom over time someone might be grooming them for another team. Now you've become a "farm team" for another franchise to pick off a player entering his prime. You've taken the training cost, the coaching cost, the price implied for drafting the player, teaching the guy the ropes and all that. And now you can't reap any of the rewards of it.

The price the players union pays for earlier entry to free agency for current draftees is that the back half of the rosters, the guys trying to make squads, will have fewer opportunities and less time to develop their skill sets. But again, the decisions being made by the union are existing NFL VETERANS who want to make sure veteran players are getting paid.

Whereas in the past, a rookie running back might get a limited amount of snaps, playing behind veterans, it's odds on, like many other positions, that those players will be thrown into the fire earlier. Teams need film and snaps and live games to see what a young player can do or don't do before the critical decisions are made who to keep and who to let go.

This was part of the basis for the labor war. Guys like Logan Mankins. Who are leveraged into signing six year deals as rookies, outperforming them, and having the franchise hold back a potential franchise player rule, a holdover from the 93-94 shift to free agency, to lock down a player another year or maybe two, sapping the players prime earning years, before he could seek even his first market value contract. Under the new system, the Patriots would have had to pay Mankins a market value deal years earlier.

Overall this changes the valuation of draft picks. Matt Forte is not just competing against free agent backs, waiver wire backs, undrafted free agents, he's competing against a whole new system in place for how the labor market in the NFL works, which further devalues his leverage to try to get a new contract. Forte is a product of the old system, caught in the middle in the transition to the new system.

Value Over Replacement Player. Franchises can't be strong everywhere at every position. Teams have to make tradeoffs. The Steelers don't invest much in their offensive line compared to other franchises. But that's a tradeoff, the benefit is more resources to have perennially one of the better linebacking corps in the NFL. Forte is not getting paid because the Bears have their assets elsewhere. Or want to put those assets elsewhere.

Matt Forte is not getting a giant deal. Book it. He's not getting the contract he wants. There are too many variable points against him now.
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GOGRIESE


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nabbs4u wrote:
^^
Quote:
Actually Jason Cole isnt a fool. How do you know he has no idea?


How do you know he does? I know for a fact he is not present and inside the meetings between Drew Brees and the Saints FO nor the Bears and Forte's management. Are you suggesting one or the other is intentionally leaking news and inside information on contractual talks? If not how would he know what was said behind close doors? Every single media member tries to out scoop the rest when it comes to a story. It's what they do or should I say attempt to do. Throw enough numbers at the wall and surely somewhere between A-Z it will stick and I can scream from the roof tops, I was first to.....? Why is Cole any different then Joe Blow down the street who heard from Julie's second cousin removed ,who's happens to be the sister of one of the babies Daddy's Brother, who knows one of the staff members that frequents the Mens urinal and over heard Emery and Matt's agent discussing in depth details?


So if Adam Schefter came out and said that Matt Forte is asking for a ridiculous contract . You would write him off and compare his sources to Joe Blow? I mean how could he possibly know whats going on.
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antoekneeo


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really feel for Forte. He is such an important piece to the Bears offense but unfortunately for him he plays a position that is not held in high regard. Running backs get ran into the ground and then are discarded like a piece of trash when they can no longer contribute. I don't blame Forte for seeking to maximize his earnings before his career is over. Sadly for him he plays in the NFL and not the NBA or MLB where there is no franchise tag. Michael Bush may not be the back Forte is but he is more than capable of being a solid backup while Forte sits out.
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QB Connoisseur


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good for him.
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Steelerspower


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt Forte not looking to be league's best-paid back

Quote:
Forte was asked by Lindsay Rhodes if he wants to be the NFL's highest-paid back.

"Definitely not," he said. "I just want to be given a contract where I rank among some of the top running backs. Not the top paid or anything like that. I just want to be recognized as one of the best."


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d829a1599/article/matt-forte-not-looking-to-be-leagues-bestpaid-back?module=HP11_headline_stack
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Keleth


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if this will be the 1st instance of a team refusing to pay and not giving in.
The general consensus is that unless an RB is the reincarnation of Jim Brown then they're not worth the big money they want especially as they don't seem to stay in their prime for long.
Until now this has been often said but no NFL team has actually acted on it and refused to give a star RB a big deal.

I do have sympathy for Forte though as he has been a major part of the Bears offense and did not hold out and basically got stitched up by the organisation.It looks like he could basically just be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the Bears aren't going to pay him, then it'd be best for both sides to work out a deal to ship him elsewhere. Some other team would love to have him and pay him what he's worth, and the Bears can get top notch compensation for him. Otherwise if he continues to hold out, Forte hurts himself in the long run with likely not getting as big of a contract and the Bears will hurt themselves by seeing the value of Forte drop significantly in terms of a trade as well as burn the bridge with Forte.
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GOGRIESE


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
If the Bears aren't going to pay him, then it'd be best for both sides to work out a deal to ship him elsewhere. Some other team would love to have him and pay him what he's worth, and the Bears can get top notch compensation for him. Otherwise if he continues to hold out, Forte hurts himself in the long run with likely not getting as big of a contract and the Bears will hurt themselves by seeing the value of Forte drop significantly in terms of a trade as well as burn the bridge with Forte.


I just read something the other day that they want him to sign his tender before they talk a deal.
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