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Plucky


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Plucky wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Plucky wrote:
in all honestly i like it and it definitely makes sense.. i had kc pegged for poe for a little bit now.. if id have to add one thing i would say a late round project tackle instead of one of those defensive players.. seems defensive heavy.. maybe like a datko or compton or adcock.. provides depth plus who knows if synder doesn't work out maybe they can fill in for RT..

edit: i had the same problem finding someone in the third.. couldn't find a good fit in OLB.. maybe maybe bruce irvin or ronnell lewis.. but idk if they will even be there and i havent watched either play that much..


I'm not sure of what your definition of late round is. Mine is mid-5th round to the end of it all. Levy Adcock and Andrew Datko won't be there in those rounds IMO. That said, as to the overall point of taking a late round tackle, I could see it. Certainly makes sense, I just happen to think some defensive depth players are needed and I like the players selected a bit more than anyone we I pegged as a late round tackle prospect.

I thought long and hard about Ronnell Lewis. Long and hard. He's tough to peg because he was used in a lot of niche roles at OU, he had no offseason game appearance and he didn't do anything at the combine. I had a hard time with him.


yeah rounds 4-7.. but who knows who drops.. hard to predict later rounds.. idk where their stock but the idea of OT late is where i was going.. yeah ronnell was tough so i stayed away myself.. if you want a player im a huge homer for its bobby wagner.. i love this kid.. if we had a second or we traded down i want him.. he can play inside or out, has experience in coverage.. really nice senior bowl.. really wanted to see him at the combine but he got sick.. today is his pro day i wonder how he did..


-We differ on the idea of late round but the general point is what matters and to that I agree with you. I definitely could have taken a late round tackle, I just didn't see any that I really liked after looking through the list.
-Wagner's got no real edge rusher capabilities though, whcih makes him purely an ILB. For that ILB role, I actually considered him as well. I'm just not sure of how we view Stewart Bradley and I think Reggie Walker can grow into a role here with more seasoning(I'm higher on him than most everybody though, so if you disagree I completely understand). That made ILB a tough sell for me.


4 is iffy but i break down the drafts now day 1, 2 and 3.. so it might not be late round but a day 3 prospect is where i was going.. i actually just found one article snooping around and bobby tore it up.. great measurables.. 39.5 vert 11 broad and 4.45 forty.. this could seriously push him into the late 1st.. only knock on him is his size.. but you said it yourself.. give him to lott and see what he can do with him.. i really like him ugh.. i got like 5 prospects i can't live without this draft and he's one of them..

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/blog/rob-rang/18165047/utah-state-lb-bobby-wagner-dazzles-during-belated-pro-day
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollo14000 wrote:
I like the Decastro pick even if that means our OT combo (Brown, Snyder) is potentially disastrous. But we're gonna be a run heavy team next year as long as Ryan Williams stays healthy.

I had Iloka as our 3rd round pick before around the time of the Senior Bowl. It's a solid pick. He's got a lot of upside.

I have to be completely honest. I have little to no info on Criner. Living in PA, I don't follow Arizona's universities like most of you.

The Leonard Johnson pick is almost perfect. The problem is that he improved his 40 time at his pro day to 4.55ish so he's saved his stock a little bit. I could still see this happening though.

I like the punter pick. Butler is solid and very consistent. He could be with us for 10+ years.

I don't mind that you didn't really address the OLB position. I did the same thing in my last mock.


The Iowa State pro day 40's were run on a fast surface, inside on Field turf. Couple draft analysts said to add as much as a tenth to it, which would make Johnson's time 4.65-ish. That time couple with his 4.71 combine time is 5th-6th round range stuff. Johnson's game tape may jump that to the 4th-5th round range but if he's there for us in the middle of round 5, I wouldn't be shocked.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plucky wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Plucky wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Plucky wrote:
in all honestly i like it and it definitely makes sense.. i had kc pegged for poe for a little bit now.. if id have to add one thing i would say a late round project tackle instead of one of those defensive players.. seems defensive heavy.. maybe like a datko or compton or adcock.. provides depth plus who knows if synder doesn't work out maybe they can fill in for RT..

edit: i had the same problem finding someone in the third.. couldn't find a good fit in OLB.. maybe maybe bruce irvin or ronnell lewis.. but idk if they will even be there and i havent watched either play that much..


I'm not sure of what your definition of late round is. Mine is mid-5th round to the end of it all. Levy Adcock and Andrew Datko won't be there in those rounds IMO. That said, as to the overall point of taking a late round tackle, I could see it. Certainly makes sense, I just happen to think some defensive depth players are needed and I like the players selected a bit more than anyone we I pegged as a late round tackle prospect.

I thought long and hard about Ronnell Lewis. Long and hard. He's tough to peg because he was used in a lot of niche roles at OU, he had no offseason game appearance and he didn't do anything at the combine. I had a hard time with him.


yeah rounds 4-7.. but who knows who drops.. hard to predict later rounds.. idk where their stock but the idea of OT late is where i was going.. yeah ronnell was tough so i stayed away myself.. if you want a player im a huge homer for its bobby wagner.. i love this kid.. if we had a second or we traded down i want him.. he can play inside or out, has experience in coverage.. really nice senior bowl.. really wanted to see him at the combine but he got sick.. today is his pro day i wonder how he did..


-We differ on the idea of late round but the general point is what matters and to that I agree with you. I definitely could have taken a late round tackle, I just didn't see any that I really liked after looking through the list.
-Wagner's got no real edge rusher capabilities though, whcih makes him purely an ILB. For that ILB role, I actually considered him as well. I'm just not sure of how we view Stewart Bradley and I think Reggie Walker can grow into a role here with more seasoning(I'm higher on him than most everybody though, so if you disagree I completely understand). That made ILB a tough sell for me.


4 is iffy but i break down the drafts now day 1, 2 and 3.. so it might not be late round but a day 3 prospect is where i was going.. i actually just found one article snooping around and bobby tore it up.. great measurables.. 39.5 vert 11 broad and 4.45 forty.. this could seriously push him into the late 1st.. only knock on him is his size.. but you said it yourself.. give him to lott and see what he can do with him.. i really like him ugh.. i got like 5 prospects i can't live without this draft and he's one of them..

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/blog/rob-rang/18165047/utah-state-lb-bobby-wagner-dazzles-during-belated-pro-day


Eh. Overhyping him IMO. Play recognition skills are below average, to say the least. He's not even in Kuechly's time zone when it comes to diagnosing a play.
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Plucky


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Plucky wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Plucky wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Plucky wrote:
in all honestly i like it and it definitely makes sense.. i had kc pegged for poe for a little bit now.. if id have to add one thing i would say a late round project tackle instead of one of those defensive players.. seems defensive heavy.. maybe like a datko or compton or adcock.. provides depth plus who knows if synder doesn't work out maybe they can fill in for RT..

edit: i had the same problem finding someone in the third.. couldn't find a good fit in OLB.. maybe maybe bruce irvin or ronnell lewis.. but idk if they will even be there and i havent watched either play that much..


I'm not sure of what your definition of late round is. Mine is mid-5th round to the end of it all. Levy Adcock and Andrew Datko won't be there in those rounds IMO. That said, as to the overall point of taking a late round tackle, I could see it. Certainly makes sense, I just happen to think some defensive depth players are needed and I like the players selected a bit more than anyone we I pegged as a late round tackle prospect.

I thought long and hard about Ronnell Lewis. Long and hard. He's tough to peg because he was used in a lot of niche roles at OU, he had no offseason game appearance and he didn't do anything at the combine. I had a hard time with him.


yeah rounds 4-7.. but who knows who drops.. hard to predict later rounds.. idk where their stock but the idea of OT late is where i was going.. yeah ronnell was tough so i stayed away myself.. if you want a player im a huge homer for its bobby wagner.. i love this kid.. if we had a second or we traded down i want him.. he can play inside or out, has experience in coverage.. really nice senior bowl.. really wanted to see him at the combine but he got sick.. today is his pro day i wonder how he did..


-We differ on the idea of late round but the general point is what matters and to that I agree with you. I definitely could have taken a late round tackle, I just didn't see any that I really liked after looking through the list.
-Wagner's got no real edge rusher capabilities though, whcih makes him purely an ILB. For that ILB role, I actually considered him as well. I'm just not sure of how we view Stewart Bradley and I think Reggie Walker can grow into a role here with more seasoning(I'm higher on him than most everybody though, so if you disagree I completely understand). That made ILB a tough sell for me.


4 is iffy but i break down the drafts now day 1, 2 and 3.. so it might not be late round but a day 3 prospect is where i was going.. i actually just found one article snooping around and bobby tore it up.. great measurables.. 39.5 vert 11 broad and 4.45 forty.. this could seriously push him into the late 1st.. only knock on him is his size.. but you said it yourself.. give him to lott and see what he can do with him.. i really like him ugh.. i got like 5 prospects i can't live without this draft and he's one of them..

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/blog/rob-rang/18165047/utah-state-lb-bobby-wagner-dazzles-during-belated-pro-day


Eh. Overhyping him IMO. Play recognition skills are below average, to say the least. He's not even in Kuechly's time zone when it comes to diagnosing a play.


you're probably right but i think he has a ton of upside especially with that kind of athleticism,.. but then again im not as high on luke as others are.. i seen him play in person when i went to the clemson game this year.. maybe he didnt have a good game but didnt "wow" me..
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plucky wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Plucky wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Plucky wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Plucky wrote:
in all honestly i like it and it definitely makes sense.. i had kc pegged for poe for a little bit now.. if id have to add one thing i would say a late round project tackle instead of one of those defensive players.. seems defensive heavy.. maybe like a datko or compton or adcock.. provides depth plus who knows if synder doesn't work out maybe they can fill in for RT..

edit: i had the same problem finding someone in the third.. couldn't find a good fit in OLB.. maybe maybe bruce irvin or ronnell lewis.. but idk if they will even be there and i havent watched either play that much..


I'm not sure of what your definition of late round is. Mine is mid-5th round to the end of it all. Levy Adcock and Andrew Datko won't be there in those rounds IMO. That said, as to the overall point of taking a late round tackle, I could see it. Certainly makes sense, I just happen to think some defensive depth players are needed and I like the players selected a bit more than anyone we I pegged as a late round tackle prospect.

I thought long and hard about Ronnell Lewis. Long and hard. He's tough to peg because he was used in a lot of niche roles at OU, he had no offseason game appearance and he didn't do anything at the combine. I had a hard time with him.


yeah rounds 4-7.. but who knows who drops.. hard to predict later rounds.. idk where their stock but the idea of OT late is where i was going.. yeah ronnell was tough so i stayed away myself.. if you want a player im a huge homer for its bobby wagner.. i love this kid.. if we had a second or we traded down i want him.. he can play inside or out, has experience in coverage.. really nice senior bowl.. really wanted to see him at the combine but he got sick.. today is his pro day i wonder how he did..


-We differ on the idea of late round but the general point is what matters and to that I agree with you. I definitely could have taken a late round tackle, I just didn't see any that I really liked after looking through the list.
-Wagner's got no real edge rusher capabilities though, whcih makes him purely an ILB. For that ILB role, I actually considered him as well. I'm just not sure of how we view Stewart Bradley and I think Reggie Walker can grow into a role here with more seasoning(I'm higher on him than most everybody though, so if you disagree I completely understand). That made ILB a tough sell for me.


4 is iffy but i break down the drafts now day 1, 2 and 3.. so it might not be late round but a day 3 prospect is where i was going.. i actually just found one article snooping around and bobby tore it up.. great measurables.. 39.5 vert 11 broad and 4.45 forty.. this could seriously push him into the late 1st.. only knock on him is his size.. but you said it yourself.. give him to lott and see what he can do with him.. i really like him ugh.. i got like 5 prospects i can't live without this draft and he's one of them..

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/blog/rob-rang/18165047/utah-state-lb-bobby-wagner-dazzles-during-belated-pro-day


Eh. Overhyping him IMO. Play recognition skills are below average, to say the least. He's not even in Kuechly's time zone when it comes to diagnosing a play.


you're probably right but i think he has a ton of upside especially with that kind of athleticism,.. but then again im not as high on luke as others are.. i seen him play in person when i went to the clemson game this year.. maybe he didnt have a good game but didnt "wow" me..


An ILB in our defensive system playing next to D-Wash? You shouldn't be looking for a "wow" factor. Paris Lenon doesn't "wow" anybody but if he were a bit more athletic and 5 years younger, he'd be a core, top 10 player on this football team.
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Boise&cards Fan


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After reading stchamp mock I have gone back to my mock and feel I need to change most of it.
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Plucky


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Plucky wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Plucky wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Plucky wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Plucky wrote:
in all honestly i like it and it definitely makes sense.. i had kc pegged for poe for a little bit now.. if id have to add one thing i would say a late round project tackle instead of one of those defensive players.. seems defensive heavy.. maybe like a datko or compton or adcock.. provides depth plus who knows if synder doesn't work out maybe they can fill in for RT..

edit: i had the same problem finding someone in the third.. couldn't find a good fit in OLB.. maybe maybe bruce irvin or ronnell lewis.. but idk if they will even be there and i havent watched either play that much..


I'm not sure of what your definition of late round is. Mine is mid-5th round to the end of it all. Levy Adcock and Andrew Datko won't be there in those rounds IMO. That said, as to the overall point of taking a late round tackle, I could see it. Certainly makes sense, I just happen to think some defensive depth players are needed and I like the players selected a bit more than anyone we I pegged as a late round tackle prospect.

I thought long and hard about Ronnell Lewis. Long and hard. He's tough to peg because he was used in a lot of niche roles at OU, he had no offseason game appearance and he didn't do anything at the combine. I had a hard time with him.


yeah rounds 4-7.. but who knows who drops.. hard to predict later rounds.. idk where their stock but the idea of OT late is where i was going.. yeah ronnell was tough so i stayed away myself.. if you want a player im a huge homer for its bobby wagner.. i love this kid.. if we had a second or we traded down i want him.. he can play inside or out, has experience in coverage.. really nice senior bowl.. really wanted to see him at the combine but he got sick.. today is his pro day i wonder how he did..


-We differ on the idea of late round but the general point is what matters and to that I agree with you. I definitely could have taken a late round tackle, I just didn't see any that I really liked after looking through the list.
-Wagner's got no real edge rusher capabilities though, whcih makes him purely an ILB. For that ILB role, I actually considered him as well. I'm just not sure of how we view Stewart Bradley and I think Reggie Walker can grow into a role here with more seasoning(I'm higher on him than most everybody though, so if you disagree I completely understand). That made ILB a tough sell for me.


4 is iffy but i break down the drafts now day 1, 2 and 3.. so it might not be late round but a day 3 prospect is where i was going.. i actually just found one article snooping around and bobby tore it up.. great measurables.. 39.5 vert 11 broad and 4.45 forty.. this could seriously push him into the late 1st.. only knock on him is his size.. but you said it yourself.. give him to lott and see what he can do with him.. i really like him ugh.. i got like 5 prospects i can't live without this draft and he's one of them..

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/blog/rob-rang/18165047/utah-state-lb-bobby-wagner-dazzles-during-belated-pro-day


Eh. Overhyping him IMO. Play recognition skills are below average, to say the least. He's not even in Kuechly's time zone when it comes to diagnosing a play.


you're probably right but i think he has a ton of upside especially with that kind of athleticism,.. but then again im not as high on luke as others are.. i seen him play in person when i went to the clemson game this year.. maybe he didnt have a good game but didnt "wow" me..


An ILB in our defensive system playing next to D-Wash? You shouldn't be looking for a "wow" factor. Paris Lenon doesn't "wow" anybody but if he were a bit more athletic and 5 years younger, he'd be a core, top 10 player on this football team.


well bobby wagner could be that player.. hes younger more athletic..
wash and wag i can see it now *dreaming* lol..
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He doesn't project nearly as well as Kuechly does because of his troubles diagnosing plays, which is our what our SILB does. Paris Lenon makes all of our defensive calls. Every single one. There isn't a play that we run defensively that Paris Lenon doesn't direct. That right there is not a task you want Bobby Wagner to have. Now in round 3, with his type of ability and his work ethic, you could take a chance and see what he becomes. I considered that. In round 1(Where you suggested he could go), you're kidding yourself if you're in an Arizona style defense.
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Plucky


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
He doesn't project nearly as well as Kuechly does because of his troubles diagnosing plays, which is our what our SILB does. Paris Lenon makes all of our defensive calls. Every single one. There isn't a play that we run defensively that Paris Lenon doesn't direct. That right there is not a task you want Bobby Wagner to have. Now in round 3, with his type of ability and his work ethic, you could take a chance and see what he becomes. I considered that. In round 1(Where you suggested he could go), you're kidding yourself if you're in an Arizona style defense.


why can't he call plays? 4 year starter 2 year captain.. he called plays and made adjustment at utah.. i didn't say he would start day one but i dont understand the logic of him not being able to call plays.. i understand its a system and it takes time but he could be every bit of the player lenon is and more... and as far as projections what do they actually mean? they hold little weight to me.. as far him being taken in the 1st round i still believe he will be there in the second.. definitely a target in my eyes if we traded down and grabbed an additional second..
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plucky wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
He doesn't project nearly as well as Kuechly does because of his troubles diagnosing plays, which is our what our SILB does. Paris Lenon makes all of our defensive calls. Every single one. There isn't a play that we run defensively that Paris Lenon doesn't direct. That right there is not a task you want Bobby Wagner to have. Now in round 3, with his type of ability and his work ethic, you could take a chance and see what he becomes. I considered that. In round 1(Where you suggested he could go), you're kidding yourself if you're in an Arizona style defense.


why can't he call plays? 4 year starter 2 year captain.. he called plays and made adjustment at utah.. i didn't say he would start day one but i dont understand the logic of him not being able to call plays.. i understand its a system and it takes time but he could be every bit of the player lenon is and more... and as far as projections what do they actually mean? they hold little weight to me.. as far him being taken in the 1st round i still believe he will be there in the second.. definitely a target in my eyes if we traded down and grabbed an additional second..


LOL, found your problem.
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Plucky


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Plucky wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
He doesn't project nearly as well as Kuechly does because of his troubles diagnosing plays, which is our what our SILB does. Paris Lenon makes all of our defensive calls. Every single one. There isn't a play that we run defensively that Paris Lenon doesn't direct. That right there is not a task you want Bobby Wagner to have. Now in round 3, with his type of ability and his work ethic, you could take a chance and see what he becomes. I considered that. In round 1(Where you suggested he could go), you're kidding yourself if you're in an Arizona style defense.


why can't he call plays? 4 year starter 2 year captain.. he called plays and made adjustment at utah.. i didn't say he would start day one but i dont understand the logic of him not being able to call plays.. i understand its a system and it takes time but he could be every bit of the player lenon is and more... and as far as projections what do they actually mean? they hold little weight to me.. as far him being taken in the 1st round i still believe he will be there in the second.. definitely a target in my eyes if we traded down and grabbed an additional second..


LOL, found your problem.


that has nothing to do with his ability to call it.. that has to do with the talent of players and coaching.. he can set them up all day but its up to the rest of the 10 guys to make a play and the other 11 guys on offense to do the same.. and btw they had the most wins at utah state in like forever with bobby as a senior..
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plucky wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Plucky wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
He doesn't project nearly as well as Kuechly does because of his troubles diagnosing plays, which is our what our SILB does. Paris Lenon makes all of our defensive calls. Every single one. There isn't a play that we run defensively that Paris Lenon doesn't direct. That right there is not a task you want Bobby Wagner to have. Now in round 3, with his type of ability and his work ethic, you could take a chance and see what he becomes. I considered that. In round 1(Where you suggested he could go), you're kidding yourself if you're in an Arizona style defense.


why can't he call plays? 4 year starter 2 year captain.. he called plays and made adjustment at utah.. i didn't say he would start day one but i dont understand the logic of him not being able to call plays.. i understand its a system and it takes time but he could be every bit of the player lenon is and more... and as far as projections what do they actually mean? they hold little weight to me.. as far him being taken in the 1st round i still believe he will be there in the second.. definitely a target in my eyes if we traded down and grabbed an additional second..


LOL, found your problem.


that has nothing to do with his ability to call it.. that has to do with the talent of players and coaching.. he can set them up all day but its up to the rest of the 10 guys to make a play and the other 11 guys on offense to do the same.. and btw they had the most wins at utah state in like forever with bobby as a senior..


Bolded is pretty funny. Unbolded even funnier.

Kellen Moore had like 60 wins in college. Big deal.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a fan. What's a better OL, DDC at RT and Snyder at RG or vice versa? Like Criner in the 4th, i've seen him mocked in the late 2nd/early 3rd which i thought was too high. I'd be willing to bet Johnson is gone before the 5th round.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Champ, not a bad draft.

Love the 1st round pick, no arguements there.

Think you could have reached for someone else in the 3rd, backup safety is not a real priority atm. DE or DT or LB or even CB are higher needs, what about OL?

Criner in the 4th is gold, good solid pick.

Like Johnson in the 5th, dont think he will make it that far. Good players go earlier than that.

Love the punter pick. I am really pushing for the cards FO to read this site and take my advice !

Contrath is a game changer, he will be a good solid pro, good value in the 6th.

Dont know enough about the 7th pick, he is fine.

Think you could have gone OL again in the 3rd or LB.

Solid B from me.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. I knew ignoring the tackle position would not be a popular choice with some, I was prepared for that. I just simply didn't see a tackle who I thought would make it to round 3 who was a better prospect than George Iloka, which IMO is what our guys thought last year when they took Ryan Williams.
2. I wouldn't worry 1 bit about our team needs "atm". Khodder will be the first to tell you that Rod Graves ALWAYS, as in every single year, drafts a player in rounds 2,3 or 4 that fills a need down the road. Arguably the best player on our defense, Calais Campbell, was picked with this strategy in mind. We're gonna do this again IMO.
3. How many corners who run 4.71 in Indy go before round 5? I can't think of any....
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