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milanb
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 5181
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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 Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| PurpleProwess wrote: | The result of the 2009 game really doesn't matter.
The only thing that should be taken away from it is how after that game nothing happened, and how the officiating crew not only let it happened but were not punished for it.
Makes you wonder if money wasn't just being funneled to defensive players. |
I don't see it as any sort of conspiracy by the league or the officials. The Saints game plan was going to bring the officiating to the forefront. The Saints correctly anticipated that the officials were going to be intimidated by the crowd, and that the Saints were not going to see a lot of flags for late hits.
You see it more in soccer and hockey, but the officials were clearly spooked by the crowd and that's part of the home field advantage.
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The race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong. — Ecclesiastes 9:11
But that’s the way to bet. — Jimmy The Greek
Last edited by milanb on Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Virginia Viking
Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 2453
Location: Unemployed in VA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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Ok...the 2009 NFCC game was a nightmare for the Vikings and those of us who have purple blood coursing through our bodies! Yes, the shots on Favre impacted the game. Yes, the bad or non-calls by the refs had an impact on the game. So did turnovers and having 12 men on the field at the most possibly worst time of the game.
I don't gloat that the Saints are about to become the most scrutinized and villified sports team since the 1919 Chicago White Sox! I think the very sport of professional football is tainted by the actions of the New Orleans Saints...and because of that, they should suffer the stiffist penalities that the commishoner can dole out.
But, there is nothing about this that makes me feel good as a Vikings fan or a football fan. One of the things that every fan of the NFL should hold as a given is that the game has integrity. The Patriots put a dent in the integrity of the game, and now the Saints have ripped off the veneer and exposed something dark about professional football.
If I were the commish, I would:
1. Ban Gregg Williams from professional football for life.
2. Payton and Loomis should be suspended for a year.
3. Involved players should be suspended for up to a year.
4. The Saints franchise should lose their franchise tag for 2 years
5. The Saints should lose their first pick (even if it's not in the first round) in the NFL draft for the next 4 seasons.
6. The Saints should be fined a minimum of $5,000,000. |
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El Raymundo
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
Posts: 5045
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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The reaction coming from many NFL players makes me think of the way some guys I've talked to think about cheating on their wives. "It's no big deal...everyone does it."
NO. Every one does not do it. There are people with ethics and morals who act and behave with integrity and honor and fair play, even if it means the best of all possible rewards won't be coming their way. Brett Favre, whom I admire as a football player, is hardly the man I would hold up as a moral compass and his reaction to this affair aligns well with the way he's lived his private life. "Do what you want, that's what everyone does. Consequences be damned."
And yes, I think the Vikings should be allotted a Saints draft pick, as should every other team where its proven that the Saints' bounty systems adversely affected them. And the compensatory draft pick should be commensurate with the severity of the impact caused by the Saints dirty play. Compensation and damages are awarded in civil cases - and yes, I understand this is not an identical situation, but I do believe the spirit is the same - and compensation and damages should be awarded here as well.
I don't think the Saints should be stripped of their championship. It sounds nice and I admit that the vengeful side of me likes the idea, but it's not the right solution.
As far as coaches, I don't know. Gregg Williams probably should be banned for life. Pete Rose is out of baseball for life for doing what I believe had far less real damage (I'm not talking about perceived potential damage) than what Gregg Williams did in the NFL. Payton and Loomis are perhaps not equally culpable but are culpable nonetheless. Although circumstances are vastly different, how are the inactions of Sean Payton and Mickey Loomis, when faced with a known act of corruption, any different than that of the coaching assistant and Joe Paterno at PSU who essentially turned the other way when they learned about the actions of Jerry Sandusky? Knowledge and permissiveness are the same as compliance and should be punished in accordance with the infraction. And this is a major infraction in the NFL.
Those are my thoughts on the matter, such as they are. Selah.
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Bermuda Viking
Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 4533
Location: Paget, Bermuda
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| El Raymundo wrote: | The reaction coming from many NFL players makes me think of the way some guys I've talked to think about cheating on their wives. "It's no big deal...everyone does it."
NO. Every one does not do it. There are people with ethics and morals who act and behave with integrity and honor and fair play, even if it means the best of all possible rewards won't be coming their way. Brett Favre, whom I admire as a football player, is hardly the man I would hold up as a moral compass and his reaction to this affair aligns well with the way he's lived his private life. "Do what you want, that's what everyone does. Consequences be damned."
And yes, I think the Vikings should be allotted a Saints draft pick, as should every other team where its proven that the Saints' bounty systems adversely affected them. And the compensatory draft pick should be commensurate with the severity of the impact caused by the Saints dirty play. Compensation and damages are awarded in civil cases - and yes, I understand this is not an identical situation, but I do believe the spirit is the same - and compensation and damages should be awarded here as well.
I don't think the Saints should be stripped of their championship. It sounds nice and I admit that the vengeful side of me likes the idea, but it's not the right solution.
As far as coaches, I don't know. Gregg Williams probably should be banned for life. Pete Rose is out of baseball for life for doing what I believe had far less real damage (I'm not talking about perceived potential damage) than what Gregg Williams did in the NFL. Payton and Loomis are perhaps not equally culpable but are culpable nonetheless. Although circumstances are vastly different, how are the inactions of Sean Payton and Mickey Loomis, when faced with a known act of corruption, any different than that of the coaching assistant and Joe Paterno at PSU who essentially turned the other way when they learned about the actions of Jerry Sandusky? Knowledge and permissiveness are the same as compliance and should be punished in accordance with the infraction. And this is a major infraction in the NFL.
Those are my thoughts on the matter, such as they are. Selah. |
Great post. I'm with ya.
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Purple Faithful
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 2688
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Bermuda Viking wrote: | | El Raymundo wrote: | The reaction coming from many NFL players makes me think of the way some guys I've talked to think about cheating on their wives. "It's no big deal...everyone does it."
NO. Every one does not do it. There are people with ethics and morals who act and behave with integrity and honor and fair play, even if it means the best of all possible rewards won't be coming their way. Brett Favre, whom I admire as a football player, is hardly the man I would hold up as a moral compass and his reaction to this affair aligns well with the way he's lived his private life. "Do what you want, that's what everyone does. Consequences be damned."
And yes, I think the Vikings should be allotted a Saints draft pick, as should every other team where its proven that the Saints' bounty systems adversely affected them. And the compensatory draft pick should be commensurate with the severity of the impact caused by the Saints dirty play. Compensation and damages are awarded in civil cases - and yes, I understand this is not an identical situation, but I do believe the spirit is the same - and compensation and damages should be awarded here as well.
I don't think the Saints should be stripped of their championship. It sounds nice and I admit that the vengeful side of me likes the idea, but it's not the right solution.
As far as coaches, I don't know. Gregg Williams probably should be banned for life. Pete Rose is out of baseball for life for doing what I believe had far less real damage (I'm not talking about perceived potential damage) than what Gregg Williams did in the NFL. Payton and Loomis are perhaps not equally culpable but are culpable nonetheless. Although circumstances are vastly different, how are the inactions of Sean Payton and Mickey Loomis, when faced with a known act of corruption, any different than that of the coaching assistant and Joe Paterno at PSU who essentially turned the other way when they learned about the actions of Jerry Sandusky? Knowledge and permissiveness are the same as compliance and should be punished in accordance with the infraction. And this is a major infraction in the NFL.
Those are my thoughts on the matter, such as they are. Selah. |
Great post. I'm with ya. |
I was there & then got confused at the end:
"Selah (Hebrew: סֶלָה, also transliterated as selāh) is a word used frequently in the Hebrew Bible, often in the Psalms, and is a difficult concept to translate. (It should not be confused with the Hebrew word sela‘ (Hebrew: סֶלַע) which means "rock.") It is probably either a liturgico-musical mark or an instruction on the reading of the text, something like "stop and listen". "Selah" can also be used to indicate that there is to be a musical interlude at that point in the Psalm.[1] The Amplified Bible states Selah as "pause, and think of that".
The Psalms were sung accompanied by musical instruments and there are references to this in many chapters. Thirty-one of the thirty-nine psalms with the caption "To the choir-master" include the word "Selah". Selah notes a break in the song and as such is similar in purpose to Amen in that it stresses the importance of the preceding passage. Alternatively, Selah may mean "forever", as it does in some places in the liturgy (notably the second to last blessing of the Amidah). Another interpretation claims that Selah comes from the primary Hebrew root word salah (Hebrew: סָלָה) which means "to hang", and by implication to measure (weigh).[2] Also "Selah" is the name of a city from the time of David and Solomon.[3]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selah
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Remember when the Vikings passed on Dan Marino because we had Tommy Kramer? ahhh, good times.
2012 Viking Fan:
Draft like Jimmie Johnson=bad (2 QB's)
Draft like Jerry Jones=good (take an OT top10) |
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vike daddy
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 66652
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:42 am Post subject: |
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here's what i think is appropriate for punishment:
 DC Gregg Williams receives a five year ban, which in effect would be a lifetime one, and a $1,000,000 fine.
GM Loomis receives a two year ban and a $500,000 fine.
HC Sean Payton receives a one year ban and a $1,000,000 fine.
LB Coach Joe Vitt receives a six month ban and a $250,000 fine
players who contributed to bounty pool are fined $50,000 each.
players who received bounty payments (those that can be proven) are fined $50,000 each.
Saints organization is fined $1,000,000.
Saints organization loses its 2013 first round pick.
CB Tracy Porter is banned from ever doing Jared Allen's calf roping celebration again.
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| Webmaster wrote: | | Can we knock off all the nonsense and stick to football? |
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disaacs
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 19992
Location: Brownbackistan
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | 1. The first allegation came in early 2010. The Vikings claimed (as it turned out, accurately) that a defensive player who knocked Favre out of the game would receive $10,000.
3. A specific Vikings player had made the allegation of a bounty on Brett Favre. But that player then declined to provide any evidence to support the charge, and he actually retracted the allegation when interviewed. (Maybe snitches really do get stitches.) |
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/07/bounty-report-paints-ugly-picture-for-saints-nfl/
After all I'd read previously, I suspected that it was, in fact, the Vikings that initiated the investigation. As far as the alleged Viking player that made the allegation, I suspect (pure speculation) that it was an offensive lineman that blew the whistle on them, because they, more than likely, heard all the garbage coming from the Saints' defense, including the "Pay me my money" quote.
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PurpleProwess
Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 9828
Location: just in range...
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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VikeDaddy,
I like your style, but in addition to the players being fined they should have to pay that money back, that is the money they received, to a charity of course.
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Some gave all, All gave some.
All posting to be done henceforth via Phone. I apologize for the errors. |
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VikingsFan51
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 14044
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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This whole bounty scandal doesn't really bother me as a Vikings fan. It's basically official confirmation of what everybody else could plainly see.
Plus, I'd like to think that I've moved on from that game. Besides my Oregon Ducks losing to Auburn in 2010, the Vikings losing to the Saints in 2009 is easily the most painful loss for me as a fan. Water under the bridge.
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^SiLo^
| EliteTexan80 wrote: | You are the aweosmenst VIKINGS FAN!
YEAAAAH! |
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vike daddy
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 66652
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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yikes. the cracks in the Super Dome continue...
During the 2011 season, we heard that, if the Saints and quarterback Drew Brees failed to work out a contract and the Saints applied the franchise tag, Brees wouldn’t sign it.
Now that the tag has been applied, Brees reportedly won’t be signing it.
Jeff Duncan of the New Orleans Times-Picayune said that Brees won’t be signing the tender and won’t be present when the Saints assemble for offseason workouts next month.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/08/duncan-says-brees-wont-sign-franchise-tender/
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| Webmaster wrote: | | Can we knock off all the nonsense and stick to football? |
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Kellerman
Joined: 16 May 2010
Posts: 3195
Location: Amsterdam
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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Murphy's law in action.
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Purplexing
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 3627
Location: Outside Valhalla, looking in.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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Let me be the first to say it.
Schismardi Gras.
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When we stop to think about it, most folks behavior isn't perplexing after all. |
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vike daddy
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 66652
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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Brees, who has so much lately been in the right place at the right time, is now very much out of it.
his franchise tender salary is based on the average of the top five players at his position, but... Eli Manning just re-worked his salary from 17 million down to 9+ million, to save cap space for the NYG. and Peyton Manning isn't even under contract at all any more, so he drops off the top five list.
oh Drew, how the mighty are falling.
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| Webmaster wrote: | | Can we knock off all the nonsense and stick to football? |
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Purplexing
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 3627
Location: Outside Valhalla, looking in.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| vike daddy wrote: | Brees, who has so much lately been in the right place at the right time, is now very much out of it.
his franchise tender salary is based on the average of the top five players at his position, but... Eli Manning just re-worked his salary from 17 million down to 9+ million, to save cap space for the NYG. and Peyton Manning isn't even under contract at all any more, so he drops off the top five list.
oh Drew, how the mighty are falling. |
The formula is set to avoid manipulations that you are implying.
The previous 5 years are averaged to determine the salary for a franchised player. The current year is not used, to avoid manipulation.
For example, the Pats could push more of Brady's money into the current year, to increase what a franchised QB must be paid by another team. But Brzezinski-like financial whiz kids in the NFL office came up with a formula that yields more stable franchise tag salary levels, void of manipulative sabotage potential by conniving GMs.
Let me be the first to coin the phrase...
Breeschism!
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When we stop to think about it, most folks behavior isn't perplexing after all. |
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Purple Faithful
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 2688
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| vike daddy wrote: | here's what i think is appropriate for punishment:
DC Gregg Williams receives a five year ban, which in effect would be a lifetime one, and a $1,000,000 fine.
GM Loomis receives a two year ban and a $500,000 fine.
HC Sean Payton receives a one year ban and a $1,000,000 fine.
LB Coach Joe Vitt receives a six month ban and a $250,000 fine
players who contributed to bounty pool are fined $50,000 each.
players who received bounty payments (those that can be proven) are fined $50,000 each.
Saints organization is fined $1,000,000.
Saints organization loses its 2013 first round pick.
CB Tracy Porter is banned from ever doing Jared Allen's calf roping celebration again. |
I think all teams with a bounty program proven against them should lose a #1 pick for every year they participated. So, they need to hit Washington, as well, I think. Sort of a mini-death penalty, plus some of the fines & suspensions you have. See, if someone gets causght with a bounty next year & it only ran that year, it should cost them a #1. Saints ran it 3 years, why do they get a free two years?
_________________
Remember when the Vikings passed on Dan Marino because we had Tommy Kramer? ahhh, good times.
2012 Viking Fan:
Draft like Jimmie Johnson=bad (2 QB's)
Draft like Jerry Jones=good (take an OT top10) |
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