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MKnight82
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| turtle28 wrote: | | MKnight82 wrote: | | I honestly wouldn't be disappointed if we considered him or Brokers with our pick. We need to continue to bolster the lines on both sides of the ball. |
You don't want Reiff though?  |
Nope. I think drafting a RT in the top 10 is bad value. |
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| MKnight82 wrote: | | turtle28 wrote: | | MKnight82 wrote: | | I honestly wouldn't be disappointed if we considered him or Brokers with our pick. We need to continue to bolster the lines on both sides of the ball. |
You don't want Reiff though? |
Nope. I think drafting a RT in the top 10 is bad value. |
So ignore the OL in the 1st round (eventhough we are rated 5th worst in the league) and keep stocking up our DL when we are loaded on it?
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 mike23md
Days until:Training camp 38; Preseason opener @ Titans 52; Monday night vs. Eagles 85 RIP SSF |
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| MKnight82 wrote: | | turtle28 wrote: | | MKnight82 wrote: | | I honestly wouldn't be disappointed if we considered him or Brokers with our pick. We need to continue to bolster the lines on both sides of the ball. |
You don't want Reiff though? |
Nope. I think drafting a RT in the top 10 is bad value. |
So is a DT or a 3-4 de, but when u need one and it's best player available, you pull the trigger
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mike23md
Days until:Training camp 38; Preseason opener @ Titans 52; Monday night vs. Eagles 85 RIP SSF |
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MKnight82
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 1433
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| turtle28 wrote: | | MKnight82 wrote: | | turtle28 wrote: | | MKnight82 wrote: | | I honestly wouldn't be disappointed if we considered him or Brokers with our pick. We need to continue to bolster the lines on both sides of the ball. |
You don't want Reiff though? |
Nope. I think drafting a RT in the top 10 is bad value. |
So ignore the OL in the 1st round (eventhough we are rated 5th worst in the league) and keep stocking up our DL when we are loaded on it? |
First, I didn't say don't take an Olineman in the first round I said its bad value to take a RT in the top 10. If we wanted to improve the offensive line it would be much better to trade back and acquire more draft picks, then select someone like J Martin or Decastro. The only position on the offensive line that should be considered in the top 10 picks is a LT which we do not need. If we trade back far enough in the 1st we might even acquire an additional 1st next year which would help us acquire an elite QB prospect.
Second, how are we loaded on the Dline? We don't have a single elite player along the defensive line. We could draft a player at either DE spot or at the nose and upgrade the position. Currently we have a lot of solid rotational players but no elite playmakers on the Dline. |
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| MKnight82 wrote: | | turtle28 wrote: | | MKnight82 wrote: | | turtle28 wrote: | | MKnight82 wrote: | | I honestly wouldn't be disappointed if we considered him or Brokers with our pick. We need to continue to bolster the lines on both sides of the ball. |
You don't want Reiff though? |
Nope. I think drafting a RT in the top 10 is bad value. |
So ignore the OL in the 1st round (eventhough we are rated 5th worst in the league) and keep stocking up our DL when we are loaded on it? |
First, I didn't say don't take an Olineman in the first round I said its bad value to take a RT in the top 10. If we wanted to improve the offensive line it would be much better to trade back and acquire more draft picks, then select someone like J Martin or Decastro. The only position on the offensive line that should be considered in the top 10 picks is a LT which we do not need. If we trade back far enough in the 1st we might even acquire an additional 1st next year which would help us acquire an elite QB prospect.
Second, how are we loaded on the Dline? We don't have a single elite player along the defensive line. We could draft a player at either DE spot or at the nose and upgrade the position. Currently we have a lot of solid rotational players but no elite playmakers on the Dline. |
Yeah, if we could trade down that's true but if wr can't Reiff isn't a bad pick to me. I guess yeah no elite DL but our DL is light years better than our OL, we have depth there and had the most sacks I can remember since we had Manley and Mann. We had 4 guys with 5+ sacks. I'm also not convinced Poe is an elite prospect. E's a good one but not top 10 worthy either, more teens or 20s. You want elite DL, there is one in this draft Brockers but of we resign Carriker to a contract that rivals Bowen's I don't see us drafting a DL in the 1st round, even with a trade down.
If you want great value for a DL that could develop into a long term starter select Jared Crick, DE/DT, Nebraska in the 3rd round, develop him for a few years and have him take over for Bowen of Carriker in a few years, just like we are doing with Jenkins. We have starters on the DL at all 3 positions, we need a few on the OL.
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mike23md
Days until:Training camp 38; Preseason opener @ Titans 52; Monday night vs. Eagles 85 RIP SSF
Last edited by turtle28 on Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Slateman
Joined: 13 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| What does a 40 time in spandex shorts have to do with playing nose tackle in a 3-4? |
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MKnight82
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Slateman wrote: | | What does a 40 time in spandex shorts have to do with playing nose tackle in a 3-4? |
Not much. But he's got elite size and athlecticism plus he was already being considered an early 2nd round late 1st round pick. Kind of reminds me of B.J. Raji people had a lot of knocks on him then he surged late and got drafted in the top 10. Look how that worked out for the Packers. |
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| MKnight82 wrote: | | Slateman wrote: | | What does a 40 time in spandex shorts have to do with playing nose tackle in a 3-4? |
Not much. But he's got elite size and athlecticism plus he was already being considered an early 2nd round late 1st round pick. Kind of reminds me of B.J. Raji people had a lot of knocks on him then he surged late and got drafted in the top 10. Look how that worked out for the Packers. |
Exactly, it athleticism from a Man that size and that's special. You don't find that in every draft class.
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mike23md
Days until:Training camp 38; Preseason opener @ Titans 52; Monday night vs. Eagles 85 RIP SSF |
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Woz
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
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Location: in a land where the furniture folds to a much smaller size
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Slateman wrote: | | What does a 40 time in spandex shorts have to do with playing nose tackle in a 3-4? |
His 10 yd split can show potential explosion off the line. Best I can find is an unofficial time of 1.70s.
For comparison, Matt Kalil ran the 40 in 4.99 s (1.70s 10 yd split) at 306 lbs. Poe ran that fast with nearly 40 lbs extra weight.
Another comparison:
| Quote: | | Nick Perry looked very lean. The USC defensive end is 271lbs and looks like he has no fat on him. He had a 10 yard split of 1.57 unofficially. That would be a lot quicker than the average for defensive ends last year which I believe (though not completely sure) Mike Mayock said was 1.78. He had stiff hips in the bag drills and to me is starting to look more like a 4-3 end than a 3-4 outside linebacker. |
Just a bit over a tenth of a second slower, but carrying 70 more pounds. |
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Slateman
Joined: 13 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| But does he have great leverage and technique? Nope. Thats why he was a second rounder to begin with. And thats where he should be drafted. Taking him earlier is setting yourself up for disappointment |
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Slateman wrote: | | But does he have great leverage and technique? Nope. Thats why he was a second rounder to begin with. And thats where he should be drafted. Taking him earlier is setting yourself up for disappointment |
He reminds me of Phil Taylor personally, and these discussions remind me of those discussions. If we trade down, I'd consider him late 1st if he's there, but I do agree he should be a round 2 prospect, not round 1.
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mike23md
Days until:Training camp 38; Preseason opener @ Titans 52; Monday night vs. Eagles 85 RIP SSF |
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Woz
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Slateman wrote: | | But does he have great leverage and technique? Nope. Thats why he was a second rounder to begin with. And thats where he should be drafted. Taking him earlier is setting yourself up for disappointment |
*shrugs* You asked what a 40 time in spandex shorts has to do with playing a nose tackle. I gave you why someone would be interested. If he doesn't play with leverage, then you're right it's somewhat of a moot point.
However, given his endurance (reps) and possible explosiveness (10 yd split), a team could probably work on his leverage and technique. |
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Woz wrote: | | Slateman wrote: | | But does he have great leverage and technique? Nope. Thats why he was a second rounder to begin with. And thats where he should be drafted. Taking him earlier is setting yourself up for disappointment |
*shrugs* You asked what a 40 time in spandex shorts has to do with playing a nose tackle. I gave you why someone would be interested. If he doesn't play with leverage, then you're right it's somewhat of a moot point.
However, given his endurance (reps) and possible explosiveness (10 yd split), a team could probably work on his leverage and technique. |
Exactly, pad level and technique can be taught it. He has talent to work with. He needs better coaching.
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mike23md
Days until:Training camp 38; Preseason opener @ Titans 52; Monday night vs. Eagles 85 RIP SSF |
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THESKINSFAN21
Joined: 14 Jul 2011
Posts: 4011
Location: West Palm Beach
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Woz wrote: | | Slateman wrote: | | But does he have great leverage and technique? Nope. Thats why he was a second rounder to begin with. And thats where he should be drafted. Taking him earlier is setting yourself up for disappointment |
*shrugs* You asked what a 40 time in spandex shorts has to do with playing a nose tackle. I gave you why someone would be interested. If he doesn't play with leverage, then you're right it's somewhat of a moot point.
However, given his endurance (reps) and possible explosiveness (10 yd split), a team could probably work on his leverage and technique. |
Tons of upside ,incredibly high ceiling. JPP was raw,look at him now 
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Slateman
Joined: 13 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| THESKINSFAN21 wrote: | | Woz wrote: | | Slateman wrote: | | But does he have great leverage and technique? Nope. Thats why he was a second rounder to begin with. And thats where he should be drafted. Taking him earlier is setting yourself up for disappointment |
*shrugs* You asked what a 40 time in spandex shorts has to do with playing a nose tackle. I gave you why someone would be interested. If he doesn't play with leverage, then you're right it's somewhat of a moot point.
However, given his endurance (reps) and possible explosiveness (10 yd split), a team could probably work on his leverage and technique. |
Tons of upside ,incredibly high ceiling. JPP was raw,look at him now |
All these things were said about Glenn Dorsey, Sedrick Ellis, Amobi Okoye, Gerald McCoy and Tyson Alualu
These things can't really be taught at the pro level. Its all stuff that should have been taught before. But usually guys get by on athleticism and don't learn proper techniques and abilities. Then they get to the pros and are like ... wait, wut?
A combine work out should not catapult you to another round. The guy works out good. That's fine. Glad he can perform at a track after a couple months of preparation in spandex shirt and shorts. Too bad none of that matters in an actual football game
Vince Wolfork, Haloti Ngata and Ndamaka Suh all ran worse 40 times. They are probably the best interior defensive linemen in football. |
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