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Yibbyl
Joined: 21 Apr 2011
Posts: 2123
Location: Redding, CA
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 Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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This was near the end of V2. I agree with and bolded the following text:
| freakygeniuskid wrote: | | mountainpd wrote: | Part of the problem which is being spoke about was the uncapped season and the fact that the variance on different teams wage spend throughout the league is massive. this will be addressed this off season so in turn may bring everything more in line next year.
The truth is free agents always get paid and normally overpaid at that i would expect to see a number player getting a good payday this offseason as there are alot of teams which are a long way off the minimum spend.
Overspending on free agents is standard practice and my problem with limiting the contracts is some of the lesser teams may need to outbid a lesser team to attract said player. |
Give me a call when Meachem and Garcon get 10 million + per year deals and then we'll talk about how the free agent overvaluing in this is the same as in reality.
Honestly, I don't think there's an easy fix for this either way. The agents shouldn't be forced to set a max realistic contract and even if we all agreed to offer only realistic contracts we would have a team like the Jets trying to BS how Garcon is worth 11 million a year, not trying to diss the jets (though I don't know why they felt the need to rationalize the deal, it's FFMD, of course it's not realistic) just saying that that is what would happen. It's just the way things work in FFMD.
That said, those of you who are on the winning end of the free agents, stop telling the rest of us not to complain about it. We're not calling you cheaters, just idly wishing there were a better way to do things, let us get our frustration out in the company of other frustrated teams. You telling us not to complain only escalates the frustration. |
IMO, any attempt to improve the FFMD, but especially the FA bidding period, would likely need to do several things: 1) Retain the entertainment value, 2) Encourage fairness, 3) Be as easy to implement as possible, and 4) Aid in increasing forum participation. Further restrictions limiting spending to a percentage or max amount would likely be viewed as conflicting with one or more of those 4 goals. Still, I think most of us would agree that the terms after years 2 or 3 of many of these "top" offers aren't very realistic. That in itself takes away some of the fun of the FFMD, especially for those of us who appreciate a little more realism. I also think that some of the frustration being expressed relates to the time and effort needed to write these FA contract offers.
A question: Would it be too taxing on those running the FFMD to store and require the utilization of the prior years' contract offers? I ask because my suggestion is to limit the FA signings to 2-year contracts and require the following year's teams to deal with the consequences of the terms of the second year. This would encourage the offers to be more realistic and responsible because you wouldn't want to be known as the source of the following year's Cap problems. The only negative I can think of that this strategy might result in would be a possibility of a sense of entitlement in the previous year's staff to continue to run the franchise. However, that could be discouraged by a requirement that states no GM may have that position 2 years in a row.
Thoughts?
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dhunt2402
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 16672
Location: The District
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| jebrick wrote: | | MaddHatter wrote: | | Porter22 wrote: | | The FA System last year was great with first writing a pitch and the top 3 offered a contract. The pitch was very important and the contracts were much more realisitic IIRC! |
I thought I remembered it being a little bit different this year - and yeah that was a pretty sweet setup |
I like this year because the pitch is weighed equally with the money. The Steeler won Bell on our pitch. A team winning while offering far less money in the contract has never happened in FFMD as far as I can remember.
If you did it like before I would reverse it. Have people send the contract offers first then the top 3 do pitches. The pitch take a lot of time so we do not need 20 GMs doing it and then the agents have to read 20 pitches. |
If you did it that way, there would be more pressure on GMs to offer even more ridiculous money to ensure they made it into the top 3. Contracts would be even more outlandish. Its a good idea on principle but I don't think it would work out well
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sparky151
Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 1283
Location: Columbus, OH
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think the contracts being offered are ridiculous, merely inflated. That's partly because waaay too many players signed extensions ahead of free agency so the pool is diminished. It's also due to them signing for too little so there is more cap space left.
There are three basic problems that IMO should be fixed for the next FFMD.
First is short termism, this appears via trading future year draft picks, structuring contracts with big back end hits, overbidding on players, etc. The fix for this is pretty easy. Let teams trade players and this year's draft picks freely. If a team wants to trade a pick from a future year, make sure the trade is in line with the pick value chart, discounting the pick by a round for each year it's delayed, ie a 2nd rounder in two years is worth a 4th today. For contract structure, simply require the cap hit to be evenly spread over each year of the contract. So a 5 yr, 40 mil contract is 8 mil per season. For a team wanting to spend all their cap space, I say let them. Some teams in real life spend to the cap, some don't. The fans of the teams that don't ususally accuse their teams of not making a maximum effort.
The second problem is the economics of FFMD, mainly balancing supply and demand. We ought to start with the most accurate cap numbers we can get. I believe each team is given a cap of 125 mil. In real life, some teams start close to that number while others such as Jacksonville, Denver, KC, and Cincinnati are rolling 10s of mil of cap space from 2011 to 2012. Next, teams ought to be able to sign up to 80 players and use the rule of 51. It says that during the offseason, the top 51 cap numbers plus dead money is the amount of cap committed. If a team has fewer than 51 players under contract, fill the spots out to 51 with minimum salary guys. That's how it works in real life. Cutting minimum salary players doesn't increase cap space because they either weren't in the top 51 cap numbers to begin with or their place will be taken by someone else costing at least as much. This will reduce the length of the cuts thread, and nobody will spend any time thinking about the various street free agents teams sign in real life to be training camp bodies. Also as long as there are cuts, for non-vested players there should be waivers. It would help the bad teams add a few players without having to bid for them.
The next part of fixing the economics would be the extension/restructures phase. I think teams should be able to make an extension proposal or restrucure request to as many of their players as they want, but only 1 proposal per player. For restructures, players should generally go along if it's just a matter of converting base salary to bonus and prorating. If the restructure doesn't extend the contract, or delay any payment, or require the player to take less, he should cooperate.
For extensions, if a player is a starter or has reason to think he has a market, it should be difficult to get him to forgo free agency. Basically it should either take a groundbreaking contract for his position, or at least more than he might plausibly get on the open market. Examples would be Carl Nicks at 11 mil per season or Richard Marshall at 9 mil. If a team wants to extend a journeymen who isn't a starter and probably isn't in demand, require big raises.
If more players hit free agency, then more money will be available to spend but it will be spread around more. There will still be bidding wars over unique players like Mario Williams but instead of 1 top CB or 1 top WR there will be several to bid on.
The third issue is possible favortism by the Mods. The Mods are presumably football fans with favorite teams and players. I have no idea what teams any of the mods cheer for and am not accusing anyone of anything. On the other hand, the current process injects a lot of subjectivity by the agents into who gets a player and how much that player costs. I think subjectivity should be factored out as much as possible, so I favor players going to the highest bidder in a transparent process. That leaves it completely up to the teams as to who gets whom. |
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dhunt2402
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 16672
Location: The District
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| sparky151 wrote: | | I don't think the contracts being offered are ridiculous, merely inflated. That's partly because waaay too many players signed extensions ahead of free agency so the pool is diminished. It's also due to them signing for too little so there is more cap space left. |
Mostly because of this IMO. With more players available, you wouldn't see Pierre Garcon getting 54 million or whatever he got.
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MaddHatter
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 41475
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The third issue is possible favortism by the Mods. |
This isn't an issue as if a team is bidding on a player and their team's mod is involved, the mod gets moved to a different player. Therefore the mod judging a certain player has no relation to any of the bidders.
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LivingLegendWFC
Joined: 28 Oct 2009
Posts: 10956
Location: BP On The Geno Sig
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| MaddHatter wrote: | | Quote: | | The third issue is possible favortism by the Mods. |
This isn't an issue as if a team is bidding on a player and their team's mod is involved, the mod gets moved to a different player. Therefore the mod judging a certain player has no relation to any of the bidders. |
Did that happen with Decoud?
I do not want this to come across like I think there was favoritism with that decision because the Vikings gave him the best deal, just trying to figure out the process. Again I am not in anyway shape or form saying there was any favoritism with that decision.
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bpastermack
Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 12069
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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I am creating my first mock right now, and I am going to have all Free Agents be open for bidding on. No one can resign ahead of time. Then when the bidding is done the home team gets a 10% discount if their offer was the highest. This will facilitate some of these guys returning home, but not too many, which should be more like real life.
All bidding is a set dollar amount for 2012. No fancy contracts. No restructuring. If you want to restructure, then cut him and bid along with everyone else knowing you will get the hometown discount. More importantly I instructed everyone to think of cap space for 2012 more like auction dollars they have available to them than actual realistic dollars. We aren't going for realism with the actual amounts, but the guys with more space will get more or better Free Agents, and GM's will just have to think about how they want to allocate the dollars they have.
It's simplistic, but I think it will be very effective. Should be fun if nothing else, and I think it will get just as close to reality as FFMD. Only thing it doesn't really take into account is things like Flynn possibly taking less money to play in Miami with his old OC. But no system is perfect. I'll have to let y'all know how it goes.
Plus ALL Free Agents are released at once in the Shark Pool for bidding. That means GM's will have to prioritize, and really think about who to target, because other guys they might have otherwise targeted might be taken before they know if they got another guy they wanted. This is more like real life too.
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MaddHatter
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 41475
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| LivingLegendWFC wrote: | | MaddHatter wrote: | | Quote: | | The third issue is possible favortism by the Mods. |
This isn't an issue as if a team is bidding on a player and their team's mod is involved, the mod gets moved to a different player. Therefore the mod judging a certain player has no relation to any of the bidders. |
Did that happen with Decoud?
I do not want this to come across like I think there was favoritism with that decision because the Vikings gave him the best deal, just trying to figure out the process. Again I am not in anyway shape or form saying there was any favoritism with that decision. |
Well I'm not a Mod anymore but that was what happened last year when I was and was involved in the FFMD back end.
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Adrenaline_Flux
Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 15091
Location: The Iowa
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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Are we really going to pretend like outrageous contracts aren't a problem EVERY year in FFMD? I mean, really? This isn't new, people.
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rpmwr19
Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 16960
Location: Stillwater, MN
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Adrenaline_Flux wrote: | | Are we really going to pretend like outrageous contracts aren't a problem EVERY year in FFMD? I mean, really? This isn't new, people. |
QFT, prior to the talent agency I remember them being even worse.
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Adrenaline_Flux
Joined: 19 Dec 2008
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Location: The Iowa
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| immuhguy10 wrote: | 
Asante Samuel, it is time to cash in and become a part of another winning organization. The Seattle Seahawks are very excited to have the opportunity to meet with you and to show you what we are all about.
First of all, we want to bring in not only quality football players, but quality human beings. We take pride in knowing that our players will hold themselves accountable for their actions on AND off the field. We understand things happen in peoples lives and sometimes those incidents don't represent who that person truly is. We take into account how they react and respond to the incident. To us, character cannot be developed in easy and quiet. Only through experience and suffering can can ones sould be strengthened, vision cleared, ambition inspired, and success achieved. We have only quality people working for this organization. Everyone from the people working in the front office to the trainers on the field, to the coaching staff and to the players. We would love for you to be one of the quality pieces of this team as we take the next step into the future.
Staff:
Yes, this will be Coach Mike Holmgren's last year, but instead of having to wonder about which direction the team will be going after this year we already have our future HC on the staff in Jim Mora Jr. He coached the secondary last year and will do the same this year. He helped Marcus Trufant become a pro-bowler and our secondary was vastly improved from the year before.
Team:
Our defense is one of the best young defenses in the NFL. Lofa Tatupu, Leroy Hill, Darryl Tapp, Brandon Mebane and Kelly Jennings are all up and coming big time NFL players. Along with them are veterans Patrick Kerney, Julian Peterson and Deon Grant. If you to come to Seattle, there will be expectations, but nothing like you will be expected of from other organizations. Our defense is solid. We finished 4th in the league in sacks last year, 6th the year before, and 1st the year before that. We consistently find ways to get pressure on opposing QBs which will only make your job easier.
Division:
Some say Seattle is in the worst division in the NFL. We don't feel that way, but we also don't care what others think. It is still the NFL and winning a division 4 straight years isn't an easy task. We have done that though. We made it to the Super Bowl in 2005, an overtime FG miss away from the NFC Championship game in 2006 and we were back in the playoffs again this season without having a running game. We feel with your playoff experience you can help take us back to the Super Bowl and this time bring the city of Seattle the championship it deserves.
Offseason:
This offseason we knew we had to upgrade our o-line so we could fix our run game. We signed pro-bowl guard Mike Wahle and then went out and made a trade for pro-bowl guard Alan Faneca. Our offensive line will be better than ever.
Walter Jones-Mike Wahle-Chris Spencer-Alan Faneca-Sean Locklear
We go from having 2 holes on our offensive live to filling those with 2 pro-bowlers. Having a QB the caliber of Matthew Hasselbeck behind these guys doesn't hurt either.
Along with these signings, we were able to re-tain OT Sean Locklear, K Josh Brown and only really missed out on our often injured WR DJ Hackett. We feel Nate Burleson is ready to take the next step and become our starter opposite Deion Branch though. Lastly, we ended up dealing Marcus Trufant away which resulted in landing us the #10 overall pick in the upcoming draft (we intend on bringing in one of the top RBs in this years draft class), but also resulted in leaving one hole on our team...and that hole is at Cornerback. We want you to be the one that fills that hole.
Facilities:
Opening this year is a brand new state of the art training facility in Renton, WA. It is a 200,000 square foot waterfront facility (2nd largest in the NFL) that includes four outdoor practice fields, 50,000 sq. feet of training space, 15,000 sq. feet of player meeting space, and 48,000 sq feet of administrative office space. Training camp will be held here for the first time ever starting this year.
Qwest Field and the 12th Man:
Qwest Field is an amazing NFL stadium that opened just more than 5 years ago. It is a beautiful structure in a great location. The Seahawks fans are some of the best in the entire NFL. Loud doesn't even begin to describe them. Since 2005 teams have committed 69 false start penalties in Qwest Field...most in the NFL. There is definitely an edge for a player who plays on our defense getting to play half of their games at Qwest.
Contract Offer and Conclusion
As stated and shown throughout this memo, the Seattle Seahawks are already Superbowl contenders. But why not make something that is already great, greater? Asante, you are the player that does this. Not only as a football team, but as an organization. We want to prove this to you by offering the largest contract ever to an NFL defensive player:
This deal includes 115,240,000 in GUARANTEED money.
The signing bonus alone is 72,025,000.
The Total amount comes out to be an 8 year deal worth 168 Million Dollars.
__________Sal_____________bonus__________roster bonus.
1st year_____595,000_______14,405,000
2nd year___4,595,000_______14,405,000
3rd year___4,595,000_______14,405,000
4th year___6,595,000_______14,405,000
5th year___6,595,000_______14,405,000
6th year___8,595,000________________________14,405,000
7th year__10,595,000________________________14,405,000
8th year__10,595,000________________________14,405,000
Along with this deal includes Asante's ability to get out of this contract at the conclusion of each season, starting after the 4th year.
 The Seattle Seahawks hope to be hearing from you and your agent soon and are looking forward to seeing you in a Seahawks uniform next season. With you, we plan to begin a dynasty, like the one you are leaving in New England. |
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WaterBear56
Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Posts: 2878
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| rpmwr19 wrote: | | Adrenaline_Flux wrote: | | Are we really going to pretend like outrageous contracts aren't a problem EVERY year in FFMD? I mean, really? This isn't new, people. |
QFT, prior to the talent agency I remember them being even worse. |
They could always create a thread and do each player for half an hour and then each GM could go online at the time and say how their team and location is better and announce how much they are willing to give(in comparison to the others). This allows several teams to back away earlier, cause they aren't willing to pay that much, and the other teams that overpay now don't have to because they know the value and don't have to guess that they will need to pass 50M to get their guy.
They could also announce some idiotic (and useless) incentives like 100 brown M&M's before each practice.
EDIT: 
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rpmwr19
Joined: 23 Dec 2006
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Location: Stillwater, MN
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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A half an hour?
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The Gnat
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 34118
Location: Minneapolis
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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I have questions out on six offers, so I'm waiting for PM's to come back, so Carr will be making his decision at 5 central time, for those wondering.
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SaveourSonics
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 45445
Location: Sleepless in Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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Members of the Talent Agency, I would love PM updates on your clients.
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