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Dawgpoun8017
Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 9090
Location: Waterloo,NY
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 Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:41 am Post subject: |
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| brownsfan214 wrote: | | Onizuka wrote: | | ditchdigger wrote: | | bruceb wrote: | | A backward WCO? |
OCW. Our forum already has that. Obsessive Compulsive Whining.
I admire your unwavering devotion to turn any topic into an open complaint about the President or Head Coach.
He doesn't anticipate throws. Yet. Neither does Andrew Luck, yet both are expected to.
No QB has entered the league anticipating open recievers. That takes a few seasons to develop for even the elitest of elite QBs.
Then the question is, is Griffin good enough to produce and create offense while he is learning that anticipation? Is the great touch and accuracy in meadium and deep throws, arm strength, athletic ability, toughness, intelligence, charisma, humility, and most impressively the ability to flick his wrist and throw a laser 50 yards downfield on the numbers in stride going to get you through those rough first couple of years?
Anyone who knows anything about him would say yes. |
I think the actual question will be...how long are fans willing to give RG3 to learn that anticipation, if ever. Yes, QBs do not exactly come into the NFL without having some things they need to improve. I think Mayock is just stating some cons of his that could hinder his career if not coached properly or could even ruin it if he never learns to fix those cons.
| brownsfan214 wrote: | | All things that Colt lacked, main reason why the Browns didnt go out of their way to change their offense, it wouldnt have helped that much, but with a special talent like RG3, you make sure he is able to make plays. So much talent and most important character is what impresses me. He wont be great in his first year or two, but will be good. But in 3-4 years, oh boy, I feel sorry for NFL defenses facing him. |
Alright...once again your showing your bias opinion of Colt through your hatred...please explain how Colt is not athletic, tough (did you actually watch any of the games?), intelligent (outside of a few questionable throws where he was trying to make plays), lacks charisma, or lacks humility? The biggest knock on Colt his is arm strength...the Browns couldn't go out of their way to change the offense because no one on the offensive unit had experience in the WCO, I don't know how many times I have to say that... 
Your acting like RG3 could go into any franchise currently struggling and make them contenders just by himself. The entire Browns Offensive unit needs work outside of JT and Mack who consistently do their jobs. So I guess when players drop the ball or run the wrong routes RG3 gets a pass while McCoy gets the blame for having to try to learn and run the WCO on the fly with the entire offense[/b[b]]...so RG3 gets 3-4 years while our other QBs got no more than 2 if they sucked/struggled?
RG3 is a special talent, and, I would love for whoever our QB is to succeed...but what happens if he struggles and were picking top 10 again in 2 years and there is a chance of us grabbing another "cant miss QB"...does the cycle end or do we get new fans that bash RG3 without knowing the situation of the Browns and just scream new QB>>>RG3  |
Well in all fairness I dont believe that RG3 will be an instant upside at the QB position. He may not be "great" in the first 2 years but he will certainly be near the middle or a little above compared to Colts number 31.
And no there will be no new QB>>>>RG3 crap because he would be a first rounder. I dont like goofing around with a 3rd round prospect when we could be getting real talent. |
HAHAHAHA I'll believe that when I see it
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brownsfan214
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 1024
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:43 am Post subject: |
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Well until then.....
"With the 4th pick of the NFL draft, the Browns select...
Robert Griffin III, Quarterback, Baylor"
AND BROWNS NATION CRIES "HOORAY!"
RG3>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>colt |
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Dawgpoun8017
Joined: 14 Jan 2009
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Location: Waterloo,NY
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:45 am Post subject: |
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I'm just saying if the browns do take RG3, Browns fans had better temper their expectations
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brownsfan214
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 1024
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:45 am Post subject: |
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Also if there is anyone to stick up for a player for too long it is me. I still love DA, BQ and still stick up for Tim Couch, but all these players could make plays and potential to make them. Colt is just so boring and unexciting, and to make it worse hes just not good either.
Hell I still love Jamarcus Russell, going to be considered a good player when all is said and done, y'all just dont know it yet! |
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Dawgpoun8017
Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 9090
Location: Waterloo,NY
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| brownsfan214 wrote: | Also if there is anyone to stick up for a player for too long it is me. I still love DA, BQ and still stick up for Tim Couch, but all these players could make plays and potential to make them. Colt is just so boring and unexciting, and to make it worse hes just not good either.
Hell I still love Jamarcus Russell, going to be considered a good player when all is said and done, y'all just dont know it yet! |
Ok so lemme get this straight, ive been drinking and from reading the last post so have you. Ok so your dumping on colt yet your praising DA Quinn and purple drank russell......,
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RabidDawgs
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 1851
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:27 am Post subject: |
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| brownsfan214 wrote: | | Onizuka wrote: | | ditchdigger wrote: | | bruceb wrote: | | A backward WCO? |
OCW. Our forum already has that. Obsessive Compulsive Whining.
I admire your unwavering devotion to turn any topic into an open complaint about the President or Head Coach.
He doesn't anticipate throws. Yet. Neither does Andrew Luck, yet both are expected to.
No QB has entered the league anticipating open recievers. That takes a few seasons to develop for even the elitest of elite QBs.
Then the question is, is Griffin good enough to produce and create offense while he is learning that anticipation? Is the great touch and accuracy in meadium and deep throws, arm strength, athletic ability, toughness, intelligence, charisma, humility, and most impressively the ability to flick his wrist and throw a laser 50 yards downfield on the numbers in stride going to get you through those rough first couple of years?
Anyone who knows anything about him would say yes. |
I think the actual question will be...how long are fans willing to give RG3 to learn that anticipation, if ever. Yes, QBs do not exactly come into the NFL without having some things they need to improve. I think Mayock is just stating some cons of his that could hinder his career if not coached properly or could even ruin it if he never learns to fix those cons.
| brownsfan214 wrote: | | All things that Colt lacked, main reason why the Browns didnt go out of their way to change their offense, it wouldnt have helped that much, but with a special talent like RG3, you make sure he is able to make plays. So much talent and most important character is what impresses me. He wont be great in his first year or two, but will be good. But in 3-4 years, oh boy, I feel sorry for NFL defenses facing him. |
Alright...once again your showing your bias opinion of Colt through your hatred...please explain how Colt is not athletic, tough (did you actually watch any of the games?), intelligent (outside of a few questionable throws where he was trying to make plays), lacks charisma, or lacks humility? The biggest knock on Colt his is arm strength...the Browns couldn't go out of their way to change the offense because no one on the offensive unit had experience in the WCO, I don't know how many times I have to say that...
Your acting like RG3 could go into any franchise currently struggling and make them contenders just by himself. The entire Browns Offensive unit needs work outside of JT and Mack who consistently do their jobs. So I guess when players drop the ball or run the wrong routes RG3 gets a pass while McCoy gets the blame for having to try to learn and run the WCO on the fly with the entire offense[/b[b]]...so RG3 gets 3-4 years while our other QBs got no more than 2 if they sucked/struggled?
RG3 is a special talent, and, I would love for whoever our QB is to succeed...but what happens if he struggles and were picking top 10 again in 2 years and there is a chance of us grabbing another "cant miss QB"...does the cycle end or do we get new fans that bash RG3 without knowing the situation of the Browns and just scream new QB>>>RG3 |
Well in all fairness I dont believe that RG3 will be an instant upside at the QB position. He may not be "great" in the first 2 years but he will certainly be near the middle or a little above compared to Colts number 31.
And no there will be no new QB>>>>RG3 crap because he would be a first rounder. I dont like goofing around with a 3rd round prospect when we could be getting real talent. |
Brady Quinn was a 1st rounder, how long did it take for the fan base to turn on him like a pack of rabid dawgs (pun intended)?
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RabidDawgs
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 1851
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:33 am Post subject: |
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| brownsfan214 wrote: | Well until then.....
"With the 4th pick of the NFL draft, the Browns select...
Robert Griffin III, Quarterback, Baylor"
AND BROWNS NATION CRIES "HOORAY!"
RG3>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>colt |
and as far as all that 50 yards with a flick of a wrist mumbo jumbo you posted earlier, so what, J. Russell could do that too, along with other countless busts broken down along the side of the highway of the history of the NFL. Colt still has TONS of potential (I just hope last year didn't completely destroy it due to the inept coaching and lack of talent around him). This guy is the winningest QB in college football history, we need to give him a fair chance.
This guy measures up physically and mentally great side by side with the best WCO QB that ever lived (Joe Montana), WE NEED TO GIVE HIM A FAIR CHANCE!!!!
I don't see why people don't get that.
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ReggieCamp
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 8663
Location: Canonsburg, PA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:13 am Post subject: |
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I still fail to see how Shurmur "failed to adjust the system to the players.". More shotgun? That's it? And by the way, we did run lots more shotgun as the season went on. Scheme can only do so much to cover up talent problems.
As far as RG3, both our HC and OC have extensive experience running a successful WCO with someone who's almost identical to RG3: Donovan McNabb. Hell, Childress even made it work with Tarvaris Jackson. I have no doubts that we'll do what we need to do to score more points.
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Pruitt3443
Joined: 29 Dec 2011
Posts: 263
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:19 am Post subject: |
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To answer the original question, I believe that they are completely committed to the WCO and based on that it make me leery that Griffin can be the guy as it certainly would appear to be like pounding a square peg into a round hole.
I think if they take Griffin I hope it is at number 4 and they do not trade up as we have too many holes to give up any draft picks. In additon if they take him I think they will need to be willing to make some adjustments as most coiaches did this past season with their rookie QBs if they plan on playing him, and to be honest I really hope he does not play much this season if they do take him.
I think most folks opinion regarding this issue on here is pretty much skewed based on the apparently polarizing issue of whether they hate Colt McCoy or not. Based on a lot of comments I have read I would bet some folks on here would rather have the Browns lose a ton of games with McCoy at QB just so they could blame him and say they were right, rather than have him succeed and turn into a decent QB for the Browns. |
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ReggieCamp
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 8663
Location: Canonsburg, PA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| Pruitt3443 wrote: |
I think most folks opinion regarding this issue on here is pretty much skewed based on the apparently polarizing issue of whether they hate Colt McCoy or not. Based on a lot of comments I have read I would bet some folks on here would rather have the Browns lose a ton of games with McCoy at QB just so they could blame him and say they were right, rather than have him succeed and turn into a decent QB for the Browns. |
As someone who is in favor of drafting RG3, I still like Colt McCoy. If he is the starter next season, I think he'll show improvement, maybe even significant improvement. I just don't think he has shown enough for us not to take a serious look at drafting another QB.
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Pruitt3443
Joined: 29 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| ReggieCamp wrote: | | As someone who is in favor of drafting RG3, I still like Colt McCoy. If he is the starter next season, I think he'll show improvement, maybe even significant improvement. I just don't think he has shown enough for us not to take a serious look at drafting another QB. |
I understand that not everyone who thinks we should draft RG3 seems to hate McCoy but some folks certainly seem to be in that category. It is why I did not simply say everyone who wants to draft RG3 is Colt hater.
I agree that we should always be looking/willing to upgrade any position and I am not against the idea of drafting RG3 so long as we do not have to move up to do so and our FO/Coaching staff works with him in an intelligent fashion that gives him every opportunity to succeed.
If that means changing your offensive philosophy in order to best untilize the players on your team then I think the best coaches make that adjustment, just not sure our guys at the top qualify but time will tell. |
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Estonianzulu
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 19755
Location: Middle of Nowhere VA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| Pruitt3443 wrote: | | To answer the original question, I believe that they are completely committed to the WCO and based on that it make me leery that Griffin can be the guy as it certainly would appear to be like pounding a square peg into a round hole. |
Why? Steve Young was a mobile QB who did pretty well in the WCO, so was McNabb.
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TeHDruiD
Joined: 01 Jan 2010
Posts: 6738
Location: Canton, OH
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| bruceb wrote: | | candyman93 wrote: | | RabidDawgs wrote: | | they won't adapt at all, its who we are. |
We can EXPAND the playbook and not CUT IT DOWN like we had to for Colt because of RG3s ability to throw the deep ball accurately. |
"He's got arm strength, he's got athletic ability, he takes hits, but he doesn't anticipate throws."
A backward WCO? |
I think it's more that he didn't have to really do that in college. But honestly, every rookie QB has to go through some kind of learning curve once they go pro and that is a skill he could develop relatively quick as he'd be getting tons of reps and probably would sit behind Colt for a year
In terms of the WCO, you see it more and more where teams take the WCO and make it their own. I think with Griffin we'd see some slightly different plays then we seen with Colt and vice versa
Something else I was thinking about and I could be way off base on this is with 1 month to install an offense, you pretty much have to work on just the basics of the system and thus can't really get too creative until a little later in the year (if you have the talent). This year we'll have a full offseason to try to expand on the bare bone version of this offense. Or, maybe we just run the bare bone, it's hard to say. But I gotta believe the shortened offseason really forced Shurmur to run about as basic of a WCo as he could. That and the lack of overall talent at skill positions |
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bigdogsandiego
Joined: 09 Mar 2010
Posts: 560
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| Great question in the debate for QB! H&H are all in with WCO, Shurmur, Chilly, and whoever they decide is the right QB. Whoever they choose, I am sure there will be some minor adjustments to optimize talent and minmize errors. The bottom line is that QB is the most important position and Holmgren must produce as he is the QB guru. At this point, H&H have not made a mistake at QB as they picked up Jake/Seneca via FA and used 3rd round pick on Colt. RG3 is the most exciting alternative as the ceiling is pretty high yet there is always risk and I put my fatih with Holmgren as to what we do. Holmgren is on record numerous times that he will build the foundation. H&H has done a very good job of bringing our D back to life. If we get one starter on D via FA and draft two out of three first picks on D, we will add 3 starters to a sound improving defense. On O, if we add a starter via FA and 2 starters via draft, we will have an improving O. I still believe that Colt is a NFL starting QB but know Holmgren will make right decision. What's not to like? |
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dawgdish
Joined: 20 Jan 2005
Posts: 2238
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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Look at the WCO with Favre under Holmgren or McNabb under Childress and I think that's more the style we'd run under RG3 than the safe dink and dunks we had to run last year b/c of Colt's limited arm and our lack of weapons.
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