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Hockey5djh


Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 16007
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well since there's a couple concerns I'll throw out the last 30 day stats (4 fantasy weeks) on all of the players.

Goldy
27/104, 17 R, 4HR, 26 RBI, 2 SB, 44TB, .260 AVG, .759 OPS

Lester
35IP, 30Ks, 0 CG, 7.20 ERA, 1.86 WHIP, 1 QS


Frazier
24/85, 11R, 3HR, 11RBI, 1 SB, 40TB, .282 AVG, .857 OPS

Sale
24.1 IP, 26Ks, 1 CG, 2.59 ERA, 0.78 WHIP, 2 QS


I'm really not sure what the nig complaint is, you can see the value for both sides.
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mm6492


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't hate it enough to say veto it (as I am a HUGE Sale fan) but Goldie is a heck of a player and I believe you win the deal.Though as I said, I would not veto.
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Eagles27


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The trade is lopsided, and will be vetoed.

Goldschmidt is easily the best player in the deal and a legitimate MVP candidate. While I think Sale is clearly the second best player in the deal, the upgrade over Lester is not significant enough to rationalize the other downgrades.

While I'm not going to tell anybody how to run their teams, the deal doesn't make any sense from a non-playoff teams perspective. I'll remind everybody that we only keep 4 players so there are no teams rebuilding year after year. Trading away your best player for a lesser one isn't going to make you any better in the long run.

You may re-negotiate the deal without draft pick compensation, and attempt to even it out. If successful I will pass the trade.
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Hockey5djh


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eagles27 wrote:

While I'm not going to tell anybody how to run their teams, the deal doesn't make any sense from a non-playoff teams perspective. I'll remind everybody that we only keep 4 players so there are no teams rebuilding year after year. Trading away your best player for a lesser one isn't going to make you any better in the long run.

You may re-negotiate the deal without draft pick compensation, and attempt to even it out. If successful I will pass the trade.


While I don't have much choice but to accept the decision I will say I don't think it's fair to call his team a non-playoff team and/or judge this deal by our current position in the league standings considering there is still half of a fantasy season left to play.

That said I guess we'll renegotiate.
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Eagles27


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hockey5djh wrote:
While I don't have much choice but to accept the decision I will say I don't think it's fair to call his team a non-playoff team and/or judge this deal by our current position in the league standings considering there is still half of a fantasy season left to play.

Well if he views himself as a playoff caliber team he wouldn't trade his best player away.

And if he doesn't view himself as a playoff team, he shouldn't be trading his best player away in addition to a draft pick.

The deal just makes no sense whatsoever.
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RollEagles


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if I'm wrong in saying this but it feels like there's a lot more trading going on this year. I like it.

Seems like guys are a lot more active in the league this season.
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Hockey5djh


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eagles27 wrote:
The deal just makes no sense whatsoever.


He's trading his best batter for what will be his best pitcher, realizing he's not in a playoff position right now he's making a major move to upgrade his biggest weakness. If you also consider that his team is very batter heavy and 1B is one of the more easily replaceable positions in fantasy meanwhile he's adding a top tier pitcher its not hard to see the value. I don't know why I should have to justify his side but its not hard.

I can see the main beef being with the draft picks but the fun fact about that one: he added them to the trade, not me.
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Eagles27


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hockey5djh wrote:
Eagles27 wrote:
The deal just makes no sense whatsoever.


He's trading his best batter for what will be his best pitcher, realizing he's not in a playoff position right now he's making a major move to upgrade his biggest weakness. If you also consider that his team is very batter heavy and 1B is one of the more easily replaceable positions in fantasy meanwhile he's adding a top tier pitcher its not hard to see the value. I don't know why I should have to justify his side but its not hard.

I can see the main beef being with the draft picks but the fun fact about that one: he added them to the trade, not me.

Let's not kid ourselves here... you're trying to justify his side because the trade would be a major coup for you. Laughing

He's not upgrading his pitching to the point where the loss of Goldschmidt makes this deal logical. He gets Sale, but gives up one of his top arms in Lester. And if he really wanted to upgrade his pitching, he could add some FA's and move injured players out of his starting lineup.

He's giving up a potential MVP hitter, for a modest pitching upgrade. He's giving up a keeper that will be able to produce stats everyday for an upgrade at a position that produces once every 5 days.

This trade makes his team worse in the short & long term.
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Nabbs4u


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't believe you're still trying to justify it Hockey. Laughing I love how you continue to ignore the fact "he" was also giving up a 6th rd pick to your 12th like "he" had to compensate you in some fashion? I have Todd Frazier in another league and in no way shape or form is he in any way more valuable going forward this season or in the future then Goldy now matter what stats you put out there for last month. Notice how you didn't put out his overall stats in 2013 where he basically has 2x as many R, HR, RBI, BA, OBS. You also act like Jon Lester is not notorious for playing his best baseball down the stretch over the years. Yes you almost got away with one, time to say OK guys tried to pull a fast one and move on. Wink
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Hockey5djh


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nabbs4u wrote:
Can't believe you're still trying to justify it Hockey. Laughing I love how you continue to ignore the fact "he" was also giving up a 6th rd pick to your 12th like "he" had to compensate you in some fashion? I have Todd Frazier in another league and in no way shape or form is he in any way more valuable going forward this season or in the future then Goldy now matter what stats you put out there for last month. Notice how you didn't put out his overall stats in 2013 where he basically has 2x as many R, HR, RBI, BA, OBS. You also act like Jon Lester is not notorious for playing his best baseball down the stretch over the years. Yes you almost got away with one, time to say OK guys tried to pull a fast one and move on. Wink


Hockey wrote:
I can see the main beef being with the draft picks but the fun fact about that one: he added them to the trade, not me.


Would you turn down picks someone added to the trade without being asked? Didn't think so. I'm not gonna argue the Lester point because I was gonna give him one or two starts then drop him (I am unaware of a texieria like second half production from him).
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Hockey5djh


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anywho my suitor has, for some odd reason, had a recent change of heart for some reason so its a moot point to argue further at all.
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Hockey5djh


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eagles27 wrote:
Meco Trades:
SP Hiroki Kuroda
14' 5th Round Pick

Eagles27 Trades:
OF Starling Marte
14' 25th Round Pick


So just to clarify is this supposed to be a 5th rounder in the draft or a 5th rounder overall (which equates to the first round of picked players in our draft)? Just making sure our commish isn't snaking his way into Marte for a First round pick since we veto on value now. Wink Cool

(Yea, i'm a little bitter Laughing)
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Eagles27


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trading draft picks ignores the first 4 keeper rounds. Those first 4 picks are for keepers, and cannot be traded.

When you trade a first round pick, you trade the first pick you have in our yearly draft. So if you want to count the keeper rounds, it is technically a 5th round pick.

In this trade Meco is giving up his 5th pick. Which will be in the 9th round.
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Nabbs4u


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eagles27 wrote:
Trading draft picks ignores the first 4 keeper rounds. Those first 4 picks are for keepers, and cannot be traded.

When you trade a first round pick, you trade the first pick you have in our yearly draft. So if you want to count the keeper rounds, it is technically a 5th round pick.

In this trade Meco is giving up his 5th pick. Which will be in the 9th round.



Hell now I'm really confused. We all know Rd1-4 are given to the Keepers so in essence we have always started in RD 5 as our #1 pick. In the scenario you describe 5th rd pick being technically the 9th rd pick is confusing?? Especially considering you have yourself giving up the 25th rd pick which by your description above is RD 29 which we do not have?? 5th should mean 5th, 15th should mean 15th and 25th mean 25th. RD 1-4 are toast! Just my opinion.


Quote:
Meco Trades:
SP Hiroki Kuroda
14' 5th Round Pick

Eagles27 Trades:
OF Starling Marte
14' 25th Round Pick

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Eagles27


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nabbs4u wrote:
Hell now I'm really confused. We all know Rd1-4 are given to the Keepers so in essence we have always started in RD 5 as our #1 pick. In the scenario you describe 5th rd pick being technically the 9th rd pick is confusing?? Especially considering you have yourself giving up the 25th rd pick which by your description above is RD 29 which we do not have?? 5th should mean 5th, 15th should mean 15th and 25th mean 25th. RD 1-4 are toast! Just my opinion.

The only problem there is that I cannot remove a few rounds from the trade list. It does make sense to just trade that way though.

If people can remember that the 5th round is the first round we draft, we can do it that way going forward. I just thought up until now, that I would let people trade draft picks, and I would adjust them myself come the draft.
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