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palmy50
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
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 Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 1:34 am Post subject: QB coaching elite. |
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Just had this one come my way and wanted to run it by you guys. Is Mac the best in the game when it comes to coaching the QB position?
Clearly Chan Gailey is as good as it gets with the athletes and Norv Turner is as good as it gets with the vert. At this point, Mac is clearly the best of the best when it comes to the WCO.
Is Mac at the top of the list now looking back at history no matter the system at hand?
Also, is Mac the best with WCO QB's since Bill Walsh?
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JustisM
Joined: 13 Jan 2007
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Location: Hood River, Oregon
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 1:41 am Post subject: |
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I think it would be hard to say at this point. He's made an elite QB and an average-ish NFL starter. MM could have gotten lucky through other peoples eyes. I'd say the only way we could tell is if we send out another guy who is NFL starter quality or when we replace Rodgers with someone decent.
Palmy how do people inside the league think of George Whitfield Jr and "QB coaches" of that type?
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CWood21
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 1:50 am Post subject: |
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He's definitely up there. If I'm a GM of a team running a WCO, Mike McCarthy is the guy I want coaching up my quarterback. People forget that Rodgers had a lot of mechanical flaws that McCarthy seemed to fix.
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Posty
Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 1:52 am Post subject: |
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| CWood21 wrote: | | He's definitely up there. If I'm a GM of a team running a WCO, Mike McCarthy is the guy I want coaching up my quarterback. People forget that Rodgers had a lot of mechanical flaws that McCarthy seemed to fix. |
I personally remember that Rodgers used to hold the ball horribly high and used to duck whenever he saw pressure coming. So I'll definitely give Mac the credit for that.
However, I think I'll reserve judgement for "best in the business" until I see what happens with Harrell and Coleman.
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Sandybaby716
Joined: 11 Mar 2007
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Location: Rhode Island
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 1:52 am Post subject: |
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| JustisM wrote: | I think it would be hard to say at this point. He's made an elite QB and an average-ish NFL starter. MM could have gotten lucky through other peoples eyes. I'd say the only way we could tell is if we send out another guy who is NFL starter quality or when we replace Rodgers with someone decent.
Palmy how do people inside the league think of George Whitfield Jr and "QB coaches" of that type? |
He had a lot of success as a QB coach and O Coordinator before he came here, too. Also, we don't know how good Flynn is yet.
Just from his time with us, though:
He pulled Favre's career out of the crapper.
He took a very, very raw QB and turned him into an MVP.
He took a 7th round QB with limited tools and turned him into ???
Brian Brohm bombed out.
Ingle Martin bombed out.
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CWood21
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 1:54 am Post subject: |
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| Sandybaby716 wrote: | | Brian Brohm bombed out. |
I wouldn't exactly put Brian Brohm against him. Brohm just didn't have it between the ears and ultimately that was his downfall.
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palmy50
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 1:55 am Post subject: |
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| JustisM wrote: | I think it would be hard to say at this point. He's made an elite QB and an average-ish NFL starter. MM could have gotten lucky through other peoples eyes. I'd say the only way we could tell is if we send out another guy who is NFL starter quality or when we replace Rodgers with someone decent.
Palmy how do people inside the league think of George Whitfield Jr and "QB coaches" of that type? |
Mac has done a hell of a lot more than that if you look back at his history in KC, NO, and SF though.
This came up because of a talk in our room about Alex Smith. Mans best year up to last season was his rookie season under Mac! Mac's ability to speed it up for them is off the frickin charts. He also has a habit of getting their feet in line with the arm, getting it out high and fast, and getting the most from ones arm in general. What he did with Flynn is truly special!
Bunch of good one out there and Whitfield is clearly on that list.
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incognito_man
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 1:58 am Post subject: |
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This is why I would think smart agents of UDFA QBs would be line up at the front doors of Lambeau the minute the draft ends  |
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JustisM
Joined: 13 Jan 2007
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Location: Hood River, Oregon
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 2:06 am Post subject: |
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| CWood21 wrote: | | Sandybaby716 wrote: | | Brian Brohm bombed out. |
I wouldn't exactly put Brian Brohm against him. Brohm just didn't have it between the ears and ultimately that was his downfall. |
Me thinks the same problem could be had with Coleman FWIW.
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Sandybaby716
Joined: 11 Mar 2007
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Location: Rhode Island
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 2:13 am Post subject: |
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| CWood21 wrote: | | Sandybaby716 wrote: | | Brian Brohm bombed out. |
I wouldn't exactly put Brian Brohm against him. Brohm just didn't have it between the ears and ultimately that was his downfall. |
There were family issues too where his brother wouldn't let Mac coach him right. Still, figured it needed to be listed in the body of work here.
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| wgbeethree wrote: | | In all fairness it is kind of rude to just lay injured at their feet while the Lions defensive players are trying to hold a completely unrelated dance party. |
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palmy50
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| JustisM wrote: | | CWood21 wrote: | | Sandybaby716 wrote: | | Brian Brohm bombed out. |
I wouldn't exactly put Brian Brohm against him. Brohm just didn't have it between the ears and ultimately that was his downfall. |
Me thinks the same problem could be had with Coleman FWIW. |
Could not agree more! I don't doubt Coleman's ability one bit. Can he lead men though?
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Willink
Joined: 26 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 3:26 am Post subject: |
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| palmy50 wrote: |
Mac has done a hell of a lot more than that if you look back at his history in KC, NO, and SF though.
This came up because of a talk in our room about Alex Smith. Mans best year up to last season was his rookie season under Mac! Mac's ability to speed it up for them is off the frickin charts. He also has a habit of getting their feet in line with the arm, getting it out high and fast, and getting the most from ones arm in general. What he did with Flynn is truly special!
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I went down this line of thinking before:
| Waldo wrote: | | Willink wrote: | Mike McCarthy?
Aaron Rodgers
Made Brett Favre turn around once in GB
Rich Gannon heaps credit on him
| Quote: | | Gannon, who led the Oakland Raiders to Super Bowl XXXVII and was the league MVP in 2002, has credited McCarthy for his progression as a quarterback |
Made Aaron Brooks look like an NFL QB at times, 3643 yards, 27 Total TD, 13 INT per season last three years with McCarthy in New Orleans
Matt Flynn looks good so far for a 7th rounder
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How can we forget Jake Delhomme, who McCarthy developed before he was traded
Matt Hasselbeck, who largely credits McCarthy with his development
Elvis Grbac, another late rounder to starter that McCarthy developed
Aaron Brooks was traded to NO, McCarthy also worked on his development in GB. |
I think he's definitely one of the best.
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TheGreatZepp
Joined: 27 Jan 2010
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Location: Brookfield, WI
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 3:51 am Post subject: |
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No knock on Mac, he's definitely the guy to coach up QB's but I remember an interview with Philbin after the draft asking him if he was going to handle the development of Tannenhill and he gave a lot of the credit to Green Bay's QB success to Tom Clements. Just a tidbit that peaked my interest as i thought McCarthy was the main quaterback guru
It's just so hard to maintain perspective when comparing the present (McCarthy) to the past (Walsh) and everything in between.
As far as running the WCO or any offense currently in the league, he would be one of maybe two or three... actually thinking about it, with my entire view on Sean Payton taking a slide the past two years back to probably where he always should of been, I think Mac is alone on top, not just for quarterbacks but offensively for me. Whoever is working with Stafford in Detroit could be making a name for them self and I really don't know how much credit to give Belichick in New England and how much of Brady and the Patriots system was Tom Martinez. I suppose Norv Turner deserves mention as well though I'm not a personal fan.
It is hard to look around the league and find a current coach that has developed QB's from point A to point B with such sustained and consistent development. Many coaches and QB's seem to reach a pinnacle only to show some seemingly unexplained regression for a few years(2011 Rivers for example). Rodgers and from a much more limited extent Flynn and Graham Harrell have taken progressions each and every year steadily and consistently. I haven't heard or saw anything that says any of McCarthy's quarterbacks have taken steps backwards but are always in some level of progression and development.
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gizmo2012
Joined: 11 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| Mike McCarthy is the best developmental QB coach in the game hands down. He has the best system and he gets the best talent to support him. He even helped revive Brett Favre's career when hsi QB rating was consistently in the 70's. |
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Pugger
Joined: 01 May 2010
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Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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He's done wonders with several QBs so far but it may be more telling if we look at this question again after MM retires.
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