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EliteTexan80
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
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DaleGribble
Joined: 25 Jan 2012
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 Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| La Canfora says Knapp has agreed.. |
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Jacobys Homey
Joined: 05 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:13 am Post subject: |
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Good for him. Now rooting for the Raider's offense to do great. It's hard not to love Knapp after what he did this season.
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amazingandre
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:34 am Post subject: |
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Good for him, but I am not too concerned, if Gary has proven anything as HC, it is that our offense will be just fine with him around....
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DaleGribble
Joined: 25 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| amazingandre wrote: | | Good for him, but I am not too concerned, if Gary has proven anything as HC, it is that our offense will be just fine with him around.... |
IIRC, nobody here really wanted him when he was first hired.. |
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Texansfan713
Joined: 24 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:44 am Post subject: |
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Good hire for the Raiders IMO. He did a good job coaching our QB's, and his development of Yates this season was good. Hope he does well with the Raiders.
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Apollo Stallion
Joined: 06 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Texansfan713 wrote: | | Good hire for the Raiders IMO. He did a good job coaching our QB's, and his development of Yates this season was good. Hope he does well with the Raiders. |
Doesn't surprise me at all as the work getting Yates ready for prime time was going to garner him plenty of attention and even Schaub looked to have taken another step forward last year. However, he strikes me as a Peter Principle guy who tops out at QB coach as he has never impressed when elevated to OC, generally getting blown out after 2-3 years in every stop (SF, Atlanta, Oakland, Seattle). I wish him the best, but losing our #3 offensive guy shouldn't be a crushing blow.
Frankly, one thing it could open up down the road is a trade of TJ Yates to Oakland as Carson Palmer turns 33 this year and they have no heir apparent. I know everyone loves what TJ did here to close the season, but personally I think he is always going to be a low upside guy with that noodle arm and we would be best served to try our best Matt Flynn / Matt Schaub / Matt Hasselbeck / Matt Cassell strategy in developing a backup good enough to get high value for in trade (maybe we need to change his name to Matt Yates to make that happen)...
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mse326
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Apollo Stallion wrote: | | Texansfan713 wrote: | | Good hire for the Raiders IMO. He did a good job coaching our QB's, and his development of Yates this season was good. Hope he does well with the Raiders. |
Doesn't surprise me at all as the work getting Yates ready for prime time was going to garner him plenty of attention and even Schaub looked to have taken another step forward last year. However, he strikes me as a Peter Principle guy who tops out at QB coach as he has never impressed when elevated to OC, generally getting blown out after 2-3 years in every stop (SF, Atlanta, Oakland, Seattle). I wish him the best, but losing our #3 offensive guy shouldn't be a crushing blow.
Frankly, one thing it could open up down the road is a trade of TJ Yates to Oakland as Carson Palmer turns 33 this year and they have no heir apparent. I know everyone loves what TJ did here to close the season, but personally I think he is always going to be a low upside guy with that noodle arm and we would be best served to try our best Matt Flynn / Matt Schaub / Matt Hasselbeck / Matt Cassell strategy in developing a backup good enough to get high value for in trade (maybe we need to change his name to Matt Yates to make that happen)... |
If a trade would happen it would be best to do it this offseason. Trust in Leinart like we did last year. Injuries happen and he wasn't bad in the one half we played.
Do it now while people still remember Yates (easilly forgotten if he doesn't play) and the Raiders would like it better if they get to keep developing him and give him more time in their offense.
We might be able to pull a 3rd rounder (though it would have to be a future pick because Pryor-who himself may be the heir apparent that stops a trade). So maybe a 4th this year and a conditional pick next year- 3rd that can become a 2nd.
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Raiiiiidersssss
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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I really don't think we will be trading for Yates... could be wrong though, obviously. Why would you guys even want to trade him? I thought he would be your backup next year -- and Schaub hasn't shown the ability to stay healthy for an entire season.
As for the hire... meh. Glad to see a few of you guys had some praise for him.
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EliteTexan80
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Raiiiiidersssss wrote: | | I really don't think we will be trading for Yates... could be wrong though, obviously. Why would you guys even want to trade him? I thought he would be your backup next year -- and Schaub hasn't shown the ability to stay healthy for an entire season. |
Matt's been healthy two out of the last three seasons. The injury was unfortunate, yes...but this isn't like years 1/2 as a Texan, where his injuries were compounded upon one another.
Matty should be fine. I personally would like to see us keep Yates as a backup, but if we WERE going to trade him, we have to strike while the iron is hot.
| Quote: | | As for the hire... meh. Glad to see a few of you guys had some praise for him. |
What he did with the injuries on this team was nothing short of outstanding. Teams completely fold when their starting QB goes down - just look at our AFCS bretheren the Colts. Then to have the #2 guy go down? To have to rely on the #3 QB, a guy who was a 5th round rookie, a guy who never even thought that he'd be playing pro football? Getting him in a position to win games is a testament to what Knapp can do.
I can give credit to the Peter Principle that Apollo alludes to, but nonetheless...this past season, Knapp was gold with our O.
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Jacobys Homey
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, you don't trade Yates for anything less than for a 2nd round pick and more.
Whether or not he is that valuable to the rest of the league isn't necessarily important. He is that important to us. We spent a 5th round pick on him, he wasn't a UDFA who we will be happy to get anything back for. At this point, we have a team that is way too talented to risk being dismantled by not having a viable backup. If a team isn't willing to pay the price this season, hold onto him and keep developing.
Just because we can get a third this offseason and not the next if he doesn't play this year doesn't mean we need to sell "high" per se. He is valuable to our team.
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amazingandre
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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Location: Elkhorn, WI
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Jacobys Homey wrote: | Sorry, you don't trade Yates for anything less than for a 2nd round pick and more.
Whether or not he is that valuable to the rest of the league isn't necessarily important. He is that important to us. We spent a 5th round pick on him, he wasn't a UDFA who we will be happy to get anything back for. At this point, we have a team that is way too talented to risk being dismantled by not having a viable backup. If a team isn't willing to pay the price this season, hold onto him and keep developing.
Just because we can get a third this offseason and not the next if he doesn't play this year doesn't mean we need to sell "high" per se. He is valuable to our team. |
When you have 2 guys in front of him you like more and pay more, then you do sell him at his highest....He is average and will not get much better, and this is coming from a guy who doesn't fully trust Schauby yet and was lobbying to dump Schaub is favor of Yates 2 months ago....the guy has athleticism and an average arm, he is not this top qb we cant let go.....if we can get a 3rd, you better make that happen Smith, but I doubt it happens.......
Yates returns and battles as the starter with Schaub not fully ready come TC.....JMO
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kenney
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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You all are insane. There's no way Yates merits a 2nd or 3rd round pick. The best thing that could be said about his performance last seasons is that it wasn't terrible.
Getting back a 5th would be a reasonable expectation.
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Texansfan713
Joined: 24 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| kenney wrote: | You all are insane. There's no way Yates merits a 2nd or 3rd round pick. The best thing that could be said about his performance last seasons is that it wasn't terrible.
Getting back a 5th would be a reasonable expectation. |
Not saying we will get a 2nd for him, but I have seen crazier things. Chargers got a 3rd rounder for Charlie Whitehurst. Yes, Charlie Whitehurst. Hell, even AJ Feeley got traded for a 3rd round pick after he won some games with the Eagles when McNabb got injured.
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Apollo Stallion
Joined: 06 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Texansfan713 wrote: | | kenney wrote: | You all are insane. There's no way Yates merits a 2nd or 3rd round pick. The best thing that could be said about his performance last seasons is that it wasn't terrible.
Getting back a 5th would be a reasonable expectation. |
Not saying we will get a 2nd for him, but I have seen crazier things. Chargers got a 3rd rounder for Charlie Whitehurst. Yes, Charlie Whitehurst. Hell, even AJ Feeley got traded for a 3rd round pick after he won some games with the Eagles when McNabb got injured. |
Exactly. In addition to the 3rd rounder the Chargers got in 2011, they also swapped 2nd rounders in 2010 which meant the Chargers went from #28 in the 2nd to #8 in the second which is actually more value than the future 3rd ended up being since the Seahawks made the playoffs in 2010. The other contributing factor was that Whitehurst would have been a RFA the following year and the Chargers probably would have had to have given him a 2nd round tag to keep him which would have meant $1.8 million in 2010 and losing him in 2011 anyway since a team like the Seahawks was out there willing to pay him $8 million for 2 seasons.
I think it would be too soon to get real value for Yates this offseason, but remember, he will generate attention and buzz in the preseason if he performs well this year as well which is where Matt Flynn made his name as he only played 3 regular season games (2 last year, 1 this year) in 4 seasons in GB. Schaub started only 2 games in 3 seasons in Atlanta, generating most of his buzz in the preseasons as well. This is certainly connecting a lot of dots, but you have to figure the new regime in Oakland knows that their fate is NOT tied to Carson Palmer who was a very expensive (in dollars and picks) reach by fired coach Hue Jackson. They will ride Palmer for at least another year as he lets them focus on some other areas while still being competitive and riding out his final guaranteed year, but ultimately they have to find their long-term QB and start building him behind the scenes to take over in 2013 when Palmer is 35 and making $13 million or 36 and making $15 million NEITHER of which are guaranteed. They could go the route of drafting an hire apparent this season and let Knapp work on getting him ready for action, or let him focus on getting the system installed with everyone else and then plug someone he already worked with into it in 2013.
So here's the other concern. Remember Matt Schaub is a free agent after this season as well. Having Knapp in Oakland provides one more possible destination that can be leveraged against the Texans with the Redskins being another strong candidate if they don't make a strong move for a rookie this offseason. Let's not pretend like the Knapp/Schaub connection is so strong that he'd automatically follow Knapp since Kubiak has been the real QB coach since 07, but it's a factor and a factor an agent can use to drive up the price especially with the Raiders not exactly known for their frugality in Free Agency.
Really, where I keep coming back to, is that I think the Texans need to have QB on their draft boards again this year, despite a decent glimpse of Yates potential as higher than any QB we've drafted since Carr (not saying much). I don't see Leinart back and I don't see anyone giving up anything for him coming off injury, so we are going to need a new #3 anyway and if we think Yates could also become a decent trade chip in the offseason, then why not go ahead and develop another ready made backup for Schaub's next contract.
Although I chastised someone in the mocks for suggesting Tannehill to us in the 1st (silly), if he somehow falls to us in the 2nd, I'm not going to have much problem truly living up to a BPA model and grabbing Tannehill and even sticking him out there at WR for 2 years. We are so low in the 2nd, I don't see it happening, but he's also hurt and unlikely to move up much and it's possible the combine bumps Cousins or Lindley up over him for teams also looking for a developmental guy. This will be a very different QB year than last year as Luck and Griffin are the only ones I think even remotely could project as 2012 starters while Newton and Dalton started from the get go, Gabbert, Ponder were promoted and Locker and Yates started due to injuries. 2010 had 4 rookies starters with Bradford, Tebow, Clausen, McCoy.
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