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Rick Spielman's Yute Movement
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disaacs


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Purplexing wrote:
Julio Jones and Chris Samuels were rare exceptions to the vikingsrule... rule.

This year, the only such players are the 2 QBs. The Combine may change that, but it doesn't seem like anyone has potential to make such a surprising leap up in draft status.


If there is anyone that other teams would trade up for if RGIII is gone, it has to be Claiborne, though. As it stands right now, the drop-off from Claiborne to any other CB is huge (#2 CB Dre Kirkpatrick has huge character issues and #3 Alfonzo Dennard isn't very tall).
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Purplexing wrote:
Julio Jones and Chris Samuels were rare exceptions to the vikingsrule... rule.

This year, the only such players are the 2 QBs. The Combine may change that, but it doesn't seem like anyone has potential to make such a surprising leap up in draft status.


I think in the Falcons case with Julio Jones, they were kind of going all in for a superbowl push. Landing that dynamic receiver like Jones to pair with steady Roddy White likely indicates that the Falcons believed they had the talent elsewhere to load up on offense to make a major run. It backfired on them and the offense line and defense had some major issues that probably werent anticipated.

Its is a rare occurrence, however, I could see the Bengals making the same trade for Trent Richardson given they have two first round picks to play around with. The Bengals are in that same boat as the Falcons last year. A very talented team, a playoff team with few holes, that could use a big time impact player. They have the defense, the WRs, the QB, they really need some interior Oline help and a big time RB.

I wouldnt be shocked to see the Bengals throwing around there two first round picks or a 1st and a 2nd and a future 1st to get in the top 5 for Richardson. Might seem odd to trade that much for a RB, but Richardson is special and the Bengals are that perfect example of a team on the verge of being great who could really benefit from a dynamic player like Richardson.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

disaacs wrote:
Purplexing wrote:
Julio Jones and Chris Samuels were rare exceptions to the vikingsrule... rule.

This year, the only such players are the 2 QBs. The Combine may change that, but it doesn't seem like anyone has potential to make such a surprising leap up in draft status.


If there is anyone that other teams would trade up for if RGIII is gone, it has to be Claiborne, though. As it stands right now, the drop-off from Claiborne to any other CB is huge (#2 CB Dre Kirkpatrick has huge character issues and #3 Alfonzo Dennard isn't very tall).


And T Richardson, see post above.

To add to that post, Richardson looks like a mold of the McFadden/Peterson potential game changing RB type, a truly elite prospect. Any team who is stable in the passing game looking to get a huge boost at RB could possibly go in for him.

I do agree, Claiborne seems the highest non QB demand player since 7+ teams (Rams, Bucs, Jags, Redskins, Dolphins, Panthers, Vikes) need a CB in the 3-10 range, and he is an elite prospect as well.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fun fact:


Itís been a long time since the Vikings have been in the type of draft position they are currently. Not since 1985 did the Vikings have a pick this high, and that year they traded down to the No. 4 pick in a bizarre three-way trade exchange with Houston and Atlanta in which the Oilers went from the second pick to the third, the Vikings went from the third to the fourth and Atlanta moved up to the second pick.

For the record, Atlanta took Bill Fralic with the second pick, Houston took Ray Childress with the third and the Vikings took Chris Doleman with the fourth pick Ė all coming after Buffalo started the draft by taking Hall of Famer Bruce Smith.

http://min.scout.com/2/1152678.html
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disaacs


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I vaguely remember that draft....and remember Fralic being a [bleep] about how he didn't want to play in Minnesota. I absolutely despised him his entire career because of that.

EDIT: I actually found an article from the newspaper about it.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1907&dat=19850501&id=VV8rAAAAIBAJ&sjid=-9gEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1679,2405343
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Gordon Bombay


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now I have no idea if this is all an act, or what. But based on the interviews I've heard with Spielman between various people, it seems the Vikings number one hope is to trade down out of the third spot. Now that's just based on a lot of speculation, but it's really the impression I get.
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milanb


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gordon Bombay wrote:
Now I have no idea if this is all an act, or what. But based on the interviews I've heard with Spielman between various people, it seems the Vikings number one hope is to trade down out of the third spot. Now that's just based on a lot of speculation, but it's really the impression I get.


It's what I would do.

Trade down and get a DT plus another 2nd or 3rd rounder to use on a defensive back.

The Vikings need a lot of help on defence and none of the guys projected to go in the Top 5 really float my boat at this point.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i don't know where to put this news, but it isn't worth its own thread:



The Rams are stepping up their search for a general manager this week.

The St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports that the team will interview a pair of candidates on Monday. Joey Clinkscales, vice president of college scouting for the Jets, and George Paton, the Vikings director of player personnel, will both interview for the job.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/30/rams-conducting-two-general-manager-interviews-on-monday/
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Kellerman


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The Minnesota Vikings announced Saturday that George Paton is being promoted from director of player personnel to assistant general manager.

Paton has been one of GM Rick Spielman's most trusted advisors for years. He worked alongside Spielman with the Chicago Bears and Miami Dolphins before coming to the Vikings in 2007.


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d826df72b/article/paton-spurns-rams-to-remain-with-vikings-as-assistant-gm?module=HP11_headline_stack[/img]
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Purplexing


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kellerman wrote:
Quote:
The Minnesota Vikings announced Saturday that George Paton is being promoted from director of player personnel to assistant general manager.

Paton has been one of GM Rick Spielman's most trusted advisors for years. He worked alongside Spielman with the Chicago Bears and Miami Dolphins before coming to the Vikings in 2007.


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d826df72b/article/paton-spurns-rams-to-remain-with-vikings-as-assistant-gm?module=HP11_headline_stack[/img]


"A piece of spaghetti or a military unit can only be led from the front end."
- George S. Patton


I doubt this promotion makes much difference in how the Vikings approach the current off-season. But his influence might be felt in the future, positively or negatively.
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Uncle Buck


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing is, it's not like we were a team that brought in a lot of really old veterans during the Childress era. During those years we did add some free agents, but they we normally looked for players like Jared Allen and Steve Hutchinson who were proven stars, but still had a decent number of good years left.

I'd like to see the Vikings continue with the same philosophy as they were using, i.e., improve the team by all available means including the draft, trades, AND free agency.

This is a strange year in that there will supposedly be as many as 600 free agents avaiable. I heard an interview of Bill Polian on Sirius NFL Radio recently and he said that this offseason is one in which a team could build themselves up pretty quickly compared to years past.

There is nothing wrong with Spielman wanting to concentrate on getting younger, but I don't think we need to go too crazy and start thinking we can build the team through the draft only.

People like to use the Packers as an example of building through the draft, but they did that for two reasons:

1) Ted Thompson is normally too cheap to bring in any expensive free agents.

2) They were extremely fortunate to get a great quarterback to replace Lord Favre.

Unless you have a quarterback that is on the level of Favre or Rodgers - (and we most assuredly do not), I think it would be delusional for a GM to believe he can build a champion caliber roster through the draft alone.

My hope is that Spielman will continue with a goal of replacing our aging/declining veterans with younger players, but do so by finding them anywhere they can be found.
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disaacs


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uncle Buck wrote:
Unless you have a quarterback that is on the level of Favre or Rodgers - (and we most assuredly do not), I think it would be delusional for a GM to believe he can build a champion caliber roster through the draft alone.


Then how do you explain the Steelers, who have virtually been living off the draft for the last 30-40 years? It's not like they typically bring in any free agents. Most of the time, over the last decade especially, they've been the ones that have lost the most free agents.

I think, while you certainly want to bring in some free agents, I think you want to do that for depth purposes mainly, not for starters, like was done under Childress. If you continually do that for starters, then you consistently are financially out of whack, and will run into the problems developing new starters at that same position. The reason for this is that there is likely never a "Vikings way", like there is a Patriots, Steelers, or Packers "way", which I believe is the ultimate goal of the Wilfs.

The perfect example of what the Wilfs (and myself to some degree) would like to create throughout the whole team is how the Robison/Edwards situation was handled. Edwards gets his payday elsewhere, while Robison, at a cheaper cost, can take over the position with little disruption.

I've never been a huge fan of bringing in free agents, especially top-tier ones, because they are aleays over-priced. The Vikings got lucky with Antoine Winfield and Steve Hutchinson, but rarely have they had a free agent signing make a significant contribution outside of them (Allen came via trade).
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Purplexing


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with disaacs ^, except add Ryan Longwell, P Will, and Darren Sharper to his list.

The Vikings 9 (10?) draft picks this year will help replenish some of the talent that has been lost through injury, aging, suspensions, and possibly, legal problems. Relying heavily on free agency means the team will be older than most teams, may develop salary cap problems such as those confronting teams like Indy, and most likely will need to replace aging players sooner.

Drafting 'long term players', such as Kleinsasser, enables a team to avoid the need to upgrade frequently, allowing the team to use higher draft picks, thus better quality players / prospects than if they had to rely on most of their draft picks to replenish talent.

The biggest problem with building and rebuilding mainly through the draft is that it takes more time for the drafted rookies to mature, and perform well in their roles than 'proven' vet free agents. But that is only a problem with impatient fans. The other problem is the uncertainty of their ability to perform well in the NFL.

One unique problem faced by the Vikings in free agent acquisitions is the uncertainty regarding where they will play in the future. Draft picks cannot refuse to report to the team that drafted them. But free agents are, well, largely free to sign where they please, with a few applicable restrictions per the CBA.
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Uncle Buck


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

disaacs wrote:
Uncle Buck wrote:
Unless you have a quarterback that is on the level of Favre or Rodgers - (and we most assuredly do not), I think it would be delusional for a GM to believe he can build a champion caliber roster through the draft alone.


Then how do you explain the Steelers, who have virtually been living off the draft for the last 30-40 years? It's not like they typically bring in any free agents. Most of the time, over the last decade especially, they've been the ones that have lost the most free agents.

I think, while you certainly want to bring in some free agents, I think you want to do that for depth purposes mainly, not for starters, like was done under Childress. If you continually do that for starters, then you consistently are financially out of whack, and will run into the problems developing new starters at that same position. The reason for this is that there is likely never a "Vikings way", like there is a Patriots, Steelers, or Packers "way", which I believe is the ultimate goal of the Wilfs.

The perfect example of what the Wilfs (and myself to some degree) would like to create throughout the whole team is how the Robison/Edwards situation was handled. Edwards gets his payday elsewhere, while Robison, at a cheaper cost, can take over the position with little disruption.

I've never been a huge fan of bringing in free agents, especially top-tier ones, because they are aleays over-priced. The Vikings got lucky with Antoine Winfield and Steve Hutchinson, but rarely have they had a free agent signing make a significant contribution outside of them (Allen came via trade).


For a long time, the Steelers had the benefit of being in a division with two perennially lousy teams, and that would almost guarantee them a division win and a trip to the playoffs. Once they reached the playoffs, they didn't do much at all until they got their own elite quarterback in Ben Roethlisberger.

Going back to the Steel Curtain days in the 70's, they were similar to the Vikings in that, once you assembled a good team, you could keep them together for a long time. They also had Terry Bradshaw as their QB. I know a lot of people question whether or not he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, but nobody can legitimately claim he wasn't one of the best in the league when the Steelers were winning their championships.
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Zephiel


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting nuggets from Rick Spielman's presser today, per Tom Pelissero:

Quote:


  • Vikings spent last week on UFAs. Started draft meetings on Monday and will continue through next Tuesday, day before they head to Indy.
  • Spielman listed the same areas of strength for both free agency and the draft: cornerback and receiver.
  • No surprise, Rick Spielman ruled out bringing back Randy Moss. "We'll be moving on." #Vikings
  • #Vikings have not approached any agents about restructuring contracts, etc. Plan is to meet with all own players' agents at the combine.
  • Spielman said #Vikings are considering several veteran No. 3 QB options, including Sage Rosenfels. Could go with only two as well.
  • Asked about drafting a QB, Spielman said #Vikings remain "very confident" in Christian Ponder but wouldn't rule out anything. (Obviously, Spielman would be stupid to rule out drafting a QB at No. 3, harpooning the leverage they have for a possible trade.)
  • On Chris Cook, Spielman said "nothing has changed." Still waiting for legal issue to be resolved. Has spoken to him. Hopes he's learned.
  • Spielman said there are "a couple" left tackles the #Vikings like in the draft. Has a philosophy on how they'll approach that position.



From his Twitter Account
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