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Purplexing
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 3679
Location: Outside Valhalla, looking in.
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 Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| ktarinze wrote: | | PrplChilPill wrote: | | milanb wrote: | | PurpleMugen wrote: | Nothing groundbreaking here.
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I agree.
Spielman tooting his own horn again.
The team is getting old and it's all Childress' and Frazier's fault. It couldn't possibly be due to Spielman's mediocre draft history. |
i do agree with this also. |
this |
I'm not sure we have an 'official list' of players drafted or signed in free agency, or off waivers, due to a request or demand by ex-Coachilly, Frazier, Spielman, or Wilf (Moss?).
Does anyone have a 'blame it on this guy' list of the current roster players who have underperformed their contracts, or who were recently cut after under-performing? I believe McNabb was Frazier's choice. Beyond that, I don't know that we can pin anything on anyone at Winter Park, or sitting in a recliner collecting millions on an 'abruptly cancelled contract'.
If so, please post your info here.
If not, supported speculation is fine with me. But finger-pointing without backing it up isn't worth a response.
I am willing to read details on what Spielman did in Minnesota, with some proof or justification, including considering his work in Miami as supporting the claim. But I haven't seen anything substantive in that regard, yet.
Because Spielman said 'youth movement', IMO it implies something about vets who were either injured or under-performing their contracts last year, or the year before. A few might have been kept in 2011 because there were no replacements available during the lockout situation. But the extra comp picks this year will allow Spielman to 'blow it up' as regards a few overpaid, under-performing vets.
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milanb
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 5225
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| Purplexing wrote: |
I'm not sure we have an 'official list' of players drafted or signed in free agency, or off waivers, due to a request or demand by ex-Coachilly, Frazier, Spielman, or Wilf (Moss?).
Does anyone have a 'blame it on this guy' list of the current roster players who have underperformed their contracts, or who were recently cut after under-performing? I believe McNabb was Frazier's choice. Beyond that, I don't know that we can pin anything on anyone at Winter Park, or sitting in a recliner collecting millions on an 'abruptly cancelled contract'.
If so, please post your info here.
If not, supported speculation is fine with me. But finger-pointing without backing it up isn't worth a response.
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And yet, here you are responding.
What I do know is that it was Childress who pushed for the Vikings to draft Adrian and Percy. And those are really the only star players the Vikings have drafted during Spielman's tenure as VP Player Personnel. The Vikings haven't drafted well beyond the first round. Joe Webb is really the only late-round or UDFA gem they've found, and I'm pretty sure he was one of Childress's guys too.
That is why I find it positively rich that the guy who has failed to draft well is now blaming the Head Coaches for sticking with veterans.
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The race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong. — Ecclesiastes 9:11
But that’s the way to bet. — Jimmy The Greek
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Purplexing
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 3679
Location: Outside Valhalla, looking in.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| milanb wrote: | | Purplexing wrote: |
I'm not sure we have an 'official list' of players drafted or signed in free agency, or off waivers, due to a request or demand by ex-Coachilly, Frazier, Spielman, or Wilf (Moss?).
Does anyone have a 'blame it on this guy' list of the current roster players who have underperformed their contracts, or who were recently cut after under-performing? I believe McNabb was Frazier's choice. Beyond that, I don't know that we can pin anything on anyone at Winter Park, or sitting in a recliner collecting millions on an 'abruptly cancelled contract'.
If so, please post your info here.
If not, supported speculation is fine with me. But finger-pointing without backing it up isn't worth a response.
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And yet, here you are responding.
What I do know is that it was Childress who pushed for the Vikings to draft Adrian and Percy. And those are really the only star players the Vikings have drafted during Spielman's tenure as VP Player Personnel. The Vikings haven't drafted well beyond the first round. Joe Webb is really the only late-round or UDFA gem they've found, and I'm pretty sure he was one of Childress's guys too.
That is why I find it positively rich that the guy who has failed to draft well is now blaming the Head Coaches for sticking with veterans. |
Sharing what ex-Coachilly did right is helpful to eliminate those guys from the list of busts drafted or signed by the other front office people. Thanks for that.
I asked for specifics as to what is known that Spielman did wrong.
I refute that the Vikings didn't draft well beyond the 1st round,... which in itself is a weak measurement as there is less chance for success the deeper you go in the draft.
Gerhart and Cook first come to mind, as does Webb, as later than 1st round picks who have contributed well. Rudolph is a work in progress, who has shown great potential in his rookie year, but it is too soon to tell. Ballard and Griffen are also on the 53 man roster and have shown potential. So, you can't call the recent draftees after the 1st round 'busts'... yet. And you can't expect to get significant contributions from 5th, 6th and 7th round picks just because of players like Brady and Colston.
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PrplChilPill
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 7831
Location: SLP, MN
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:31 am Post subject: |
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Gerhart cost a 2nd and a 3rd for a guy that you hope and pray plays no more than 10 times a game. Bad use of resources. If that is a good roster move, then we have a problem. Really, for a team with holes, using two relatively high picks on a guy that you WANT to be a backup makes no sense. I don't get how people keep saying it was a good move. Yes, he's a good player, but that's not the point. The point is, if you don't have an OL or WRs or CBs or S, how do you use two high picks on a guy that you want to be a backup?
We have no idea if Webb is any good or not, though you think he is, the Vikings don't share your feelings.
Rudolph was the 2nd round pick of a team that was 3-13, and he didn't make an impact at all. That said, he should be a good player if they figure out how to use him and get any OL play so the surviving QB can have time to throw. Didn't love the pick, but it wasn't their biggest blunder.
Ballard barely played, even thought the DTs on this roster did little at all. Not sure what we see in him yet, but I agree, I liked that pick.
Griffen looks like the best or 2nd best late round pick (Sullivan, maybe) on this team. But, his best position is manned by an overpaid LDE, so he doesn't see the field enough. I expect that to change, as I expect the DL on passing downs to look more like the Giants' line....4 DEs in the game at once.
Cook, I agree, he looked legit. I don't blame the FO or coaches for his off field stuff. I would have preferred they trade up for one of the more well known CBs or the center....but they look like they were right on that one.
But really, if this team had done a good to great job drafting the last four years, it wouldn't have this many holes.
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Purplexing
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:54 am Post subject: |
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How many of these "bad moves" were Spielman's doing? ( the topic of this thread is the Yute Movement of that GM guy).
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PrplChilPill
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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Location: SLP, MN
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| Purplexing wrote: | | How many of these "bad moves" were Spielman's doing? ( the topic of this thread is the Yute Movement of that GM guy). |
We don't know. But since he ran the scouting department, I'd assume some were. But, we just don't know.
I'm happy to give him a year to give us more evidence one way or the other to indicate his skill.
But, lots of posters seem to be posting saying that NONE of this was his issue, and I find that hard to believe.
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CriminalMind
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
Posts: 2986
Location: Toronto, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| Its good PR, but its just words until otherwise. |
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Purplexing
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 3679
Location: Outside Valhalla, looking in.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| PrplChilPill wrote: | | Purplexing wrote: | | How many of these "bad moves" were Spielman's doing? ( the topic of this thread is the Yute Movement of that GM guy). |
We don't know. But since he ran the scouting department, I'd assume some were. But, we just don't know.
I'm happy to give him a year to give us more evidence one way or the other to indicate his skill.
But, lots of posters seem to be posting saying that NONE of this was his issue, and I find that hard to believe. |
Agree.
I don't think any or 'lots' are saying 'NONE'. That's a simplification. IMO, it is the significant bad choices that were the downfall of ex-Coachilly and the D coaches who were let go recently.
Wilf and other people in charge realize that some mistakes are inevitable, and some are largely out of the control of the 'managers' ( e.g. McKinney, DeGeare, injuries to Griffen, Herrera, etc., Cook's legal issue, etc. ).
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skywindO2
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 11409
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| PrplChilPill wrote: | | I'm happy to give him a year to give us more evidence one way or the other to indicate his skill. |
That's where I am too. It's not something worth losing sleep or getting upset over. If he does well, yay for us. If not, I'd have no problem dumping him later.
That said, I don't think anyone would have been upset if they got rid of him either, myself included.
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milanb
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| PrplChilPill wrote: |
We have no idea if Webb is any good or not, though you think he is, the Vikings don't share your feelings.
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Let's not go there.
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The race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong. — Ecclesiastes 9:11
But that’s the way to bet. — Jimmy The Greek
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Purple Faithful
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 2688
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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I love "my cousin Vinny"
My whole reason for opening this thread. "oh, and you blend." Marisa Tomei. *sigh*
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Remember when the Vikings passed on Dan Marino because we had Tommy Kramer? ahhh, good times.
2012 Viking Fan:
Draft like Jimmie Johnson=bad (2 QB's)
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Purp1eAndG01d
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 1161
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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Why didn't Musgrave utilize Rudolph and Shiancoe like the Patriots utilize Gronk and Hernandez? Rudolph can end up being one of the games top TEs if they would use him. Also if we utilized both TEs more in the passing game we could hold out a year or so to get a pure #1 reciever.
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PrplChilPill
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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Location: SLP, MN
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Purp1eAndG01d wrote: | | Why didn't Musgrave utilize Rudolph and Shiancoe like the Patriots utilize Gronk and Hernandez? Rudolph can end up being one of the games top TEs if they would use him. Also if we utilized both TEs more in the passing game we could hold out a year or so to get a pure #1 reciever. |
Great question. It's not like they had a bunch of other options....
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HighHopes
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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This team really isnt that old anymore. Terrible but not that old lol
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vikingsrule
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 39758
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| HighHopes wrote: | | This team really isnt that old anymore. Terrible but not that old lol |
agreed.
the youth movement really started last year when Phat Pat and Leber werent brought back. And eventually the release of McKinnie, its part of getting younger eventually. Now the Ravens are in teh same position we have been for years, looking for its LT of the future.
once Hutch/Herrera/Winfield/EJ and even Ced Griffin (his knee surgeries add like 3 years  ) are pushed out the door (hopefully they just rip the bandaid off, and get rid of all of them this offseason). |
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