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texans_uk
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
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 Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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AJ certainly hasn't been the player we were used to before his injuries.
I hope he can get back to that.
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Apollo Stallion
Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 5091
Location: Battle Red State
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| bigschmadt00 wrote: | Hey guys. I'm totally not coming in here to rip on anyone, but something has been bothering me since I saw the game yesterday.
First, I've not watched too many Texans' games this year or any other year for that matter. I've always rooted for them as I live in Texas, and used to like the Oilers, but my love for the Chiefs is all encompassing, so there's little room for a 2nd team. 
Anyway, on the two INT's Yates threw at AJ, am I wrong to think there's some fault on AJ on both of those throws? Here me out.
On the first one, it was an out route that Yates threw fairly quickly, and AJ didn't appear to see until after Webb had already broke on it, but AJ could have beat him to the point underneath Webb, and I would think is taught to react that way when he sees the CB drive on the ball like that. If nothing else, why does he not even attempt to knock the ball away? Yates should not have attempted that throw no question, but watching the replay they showed during the game, it looked like AJ didn't accelerate out of his break, and went straight to tackling Webb rather then even attempting to make a play on the ball.
On the play towards the end, he doesn't even jump to go for the ball at all, even though based on where Reed caught it, and how he was right there pushing Reed as he caught it, it looked like he at least could have got a hand on the ball. Why push Reed, when you know that's going to have very little effect on him actually catching it?
I'm not trying to blaim it all on him or anything, as there is definitely some blame on the QB and even the play-calling, particularly on the last one, but isn't there supposed to be some sort of code that a Vet WR should try and bail out his 5th round rookie QB?
All I've heard is how Yates lost the game for them, and I think that is terribly unfair, and I personally think AJ should have done a lot more on both of those plays, especially on that last INT, to help keep those passes from being intercepted.
Am I completely out of line? |
No, you aren't out of line at all, but nobody in Houston ever dares to question the infallible Andre. Most people will look at Andre's stat line (8 catches, 111 yards) and say he did his job yesterday (ignoring the 7 targets that missed), but I agree with you to an extent on both fronts. Andre certainly could have done more on the first pick, but it also was just a bad decision on TJ's behalf as unlike AJ he should see Webb behind him in clear position for the pick and Schaub certainly has been guilty of forcing the ball to AJ plenty of times with the same result as knocking down passes just isn't in his DNA.
However, on the deep ball out of the 2 minute warning, Andre absolutely could have done more with the game on the line and was beaten by a player with no regard for his injuries or his future in Ed Reed. For goodness sake Ed Reed is playing with a nerve injury in his neck that is incredibly painful, severely limits his strength and made two plays at the end that showed WHY he is the best while Andre DIDN'T make the play to win it for his team (did he even touch it?). Andre Johnson had friggin hamstring injuries and was questioning his career at one point, sat out 9 games including ones that could have had us playing Balt at home and clearly he wanted nothing to do with going up for that ball at the end of the game the way that Ed Reed did. The 49ers were able to ride Vernon Davis when they needed to and AJ couldn't get it done.
AJ's playoff performance isn't going to make anyone forget Kellen Winslow Sr., Larry Fitzgerald, or even TO in the Super Bowl and as far as I'm concerned, the "future Hall of Famer" talk remains premature until he does something on a bigger stage (he's only 39th in yards folks and behind guys like Andre Rison, Eric Moulds, Donald Driver, Rod Smith, Steve Smith, and 3,726 yards and a ring behind Torry Holt who was done by his 33rd birthday). Ochocinco is only 2 years older than AJ people. AJ is barely in the top 100 in receiving TDs with fewer TD's than Santana Moss and Anquan Boldin who I don't think have "future hall of famer" attached to their names. Antonio Gates has 24 more TDs from the same "draft class" despite also having injury issues.
AJ played soft and tentative since he came back (the Bengals TD was poor coverage by an outclassed nickle back, nothing exceptional he did aside from veteran route running since nobody expected him to go deep after seeing him on tape). I'll give him a slight waiver since we don't know how well the hammies have healed, but I sure hope he gets his head back on straight next year and takes his offseason conditioning seriously as I am so sick of him not being a part of OTAs or the preseason. Schaub is going to need to get his rhythm back as well and I'd rather know in July that AJ has lost "it" than in October with only the Bryant Johnson and Derrick Mason's of the world left.
Personally, I think the Texans need to not only draft a WR early, but also sign another vet as I don't like what I saw with AJ one bit this season and remember this is two seasons in a row he has been rendered ineffective by injury plus 05 & 07 (that's 4 of 9 and now he's in his 30's with a contract the escalates for the next 6 years). Reggie Wayne has not missed a game due to injury in his 11 years! I do suspect the hammies limited his ability to go up for balls, but again if that's the case, why do you still have a play requiring a WR with vertical in the playbook?
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mse326
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think there was much of anything he could do on the 1st one. Webb undercut it right away and got in front of AJ the way the receiver uses his body to shield DB's. And it wasn't because AJ ran the wrong route. That one is 100% Yates.
The second I do kind of agree. I think he may have been able to get a hand on it if he jumped but I'm not absolutely sure. I think AJ was the same way. If he jumps and can't get a hand on it he knows it's picked. So he made the split second decision to try to hit him to prevent it instead. The problem is he didn't do a very forceful hit either, which kind of makes it moot. But definitely could have done more to prevent it which ever way he tried.
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diamondbull424
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
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Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:11 am Post subject: |
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I don't know. I didn't really find much fault with AJ on those plays tbh. I think I would have to rewatch them though. The first one I just thought there was nothing he could do as Webb broke onto the ball and had AJ been lazy/uninspired, Webb is taking that to the house IMO.
On the second one, I remembered it as him trying to stop and box out Webb for the jump ball (which he did) and then when he was going up for the ball, Ed Reed was already skying for it and he didn't have time to make a play on it, so he just tried tackling Reed to cause a fumble (which Ed did drop two previous balls, so it wasn't a bad strategy). But I guess I could be mis-remembering the plays.
But on the point of AJ not being the same players as he was last year and on the HOF talk being a little too premature, I'd agree. He's been one of the most dominant WRs of this generation when healthy, but AJ wouldn't be the first player in NFL history to have a surefire HOF career be thwarted by the injury bug (and wouldn't be the last). I think he gets into the HOF, but adding to his impressive resume obviously couldn't hurt his chances any.
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Dawgtx
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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I have to agree too, to some degree. AJ seemed nonaggresive, hesitant, and to some degree soft. For sure Yates made some bad choices on where to throw, but once in the air, Andre has to do more....either go get it, or make sure a DB doesn't.
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EliteTexan80
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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Been busy with work and family life, so haven't chimed in as much as I'd like...but here are my thoughts on...well, everything. It's long, so grab a beverage and get comfy:
1. To come out and play the Ravens as we did - beating them at their own game, playing some smashmouth football with the bully in the sandbox - goodness, does that give me some major expectations for next year. The Ravens have been the black-n-blue team in the NFL for the better part of 10 years. The Texans have always been the technical team, the team that is able to win by sound execution (on the offensive side of the ball, that is). To see us adopt both the technical and visceral aspects of the game, and prove it firsthand against a puncher such as the Ravens...yeah, that has me excited.
2. Jacoby Jones has finally worn out his welcome in Houston. You just DON'T make that mistake, let alone in the biggest game in the history of the team. I get it - he saw Danieal Manning's big KR and the momentum swing due to it, wanted to emulate that - but fundamentals need to come forth over the desire to make a big play. Fundamentals tell you to let the bounce happen. It's been a career of mistakes or under performance, and this was the last straw. He should be cut as soon as possible and his money should be given to Arian Foster or Mario Williams.
3. Arian Foster - The best RB in the NFL. I said it. I will NOT un-say it. Adrian Peterson, Chris Johnson, Ray Rice, LeSean McCoy, Matt Forte, Stephen Jackson...ALL of them take a backseat to Foster, the Swiss-Army knife of the NFL. Guy is going to carve you up in so many different ways, and there isn't a defense in the NFL that can do anything about it. Pay the man, Rick...skip the RFA tag, let's find a good deal in the middle...because teams WILL pay a 1st/3rd for the man, and I am not sure that would be enough compensation to account for what losing Foster would mean for this team.
4. Kareem Jackson has no place in the starting 11. This guy has zero ball skills. He's proven to improve somewhat in terms of keeping up with his guy, but goodness...swat the ball down. Punch the ball out of Lee Evans' hand. I watch Jackson and see a combo of Fred Bennett and Jacko Reeves - absolutely no idea where the ball is when it's thrown his way, will only make an attempt on the ball when it's already caught, only brings value in not letting a WR get much YAC...honestly, we reached on the guy and it is showing now. I'm not saying Patrick Robinson, Kyle Wilson or Devin McCourty are MUCH better, but we could of went with one of those three and I would HIGHLY doubt we'd get worse results.
5. Matt Schaub IS our franchise QB. For as much as Yates was loved in his run, his lack of understanding really showed up this game. There were about 4-5 throws that he shouldn't of made in this game, let alone against a D that lives on the turnover. He threw three INTs, but by my count...he had three INTs dropped in this game, so his numbers are actually better than they should of been. He is a mighty fine backup QB, Matt Leinart is now the odd man out...but Schaub is the starter.
6. Pay Arian Foster. Had to be said twice.
7. I don't know if it's age or nerves, but AJ is starting to show signs of being somewhat mortal. Yeah, he had a big game - 8/111 - but there were some plays where he should of been the aggressor on the ball, he should of found a way to make a play. There was a 3rd and 2 where AJ was matched up against Suggs - a mismatch if I have EVER seen one. AJ took the slant, Yates made the throw a bit behind him, and AJ looked up a split second too late and the ball veered off of his hands. The matchup should of dictated that he beat Suggs off the line, which he did. Now, if AJ looked up sooner - which, IMO he should of done once beating Suggs - he can adjust to make a catch on a ball that should be caught. That catch results in a big hit, but he probably gets four yards and keeps the offense going. That is a big play that a big time playmaker makes in the clutch.
AJ is BETTER than this, and things like this are driving me crazy.
8. JJ Watt = Hall of Fame. I've been singing this line since the preseason, and I'mma get lounder over the years with this. The man is a one-man wrecking crew. THIS is who Mario Williams should of been back in the 4-3 days, a force of nature, a freak who takes enjoyment in getting after the QB and disrupting plays that go his way. Watt will be the centerpiece of this defense for years to come, a mighty big piece of praise going to a position that doesn't get much love.
9. Now...Mario Williams. The $16.56MM question. (Or the $18.4MM question. Or the $22MM question). Now, all signs indicate to Mario wanting to stay here - no real "official" support, but Mario comes off as a guy who is happy with his surroundings, someone who likes being here. When the rest of the world hated him for not being Miami RB or Eagles QB #2, Houston stuck by him, said "Yes, he is our guy and we are excited to pick him #1 overall," and such loyalty to HIM can't be forgotten by HIM. Those were some tough years for him, and we stood by his side through the whole ordeal...so I think that should earn us a deep discount for his services.
Now...going into this, we have to FORGET the tag number. We have to aim for long term; This provides us the needed cap relief in the early years and gives us room to maneuver in the later years, when the number starts to grow. It's not as if money isn't coming off of the books - Jacoby Jones is all but gone, Kevin Walter should be asked to renegotiate or face being cut, Derrick Ward is probably gone, Shiloh Keo all but made Dominique Barber expendable, Antoine Caldwell should be cut, Daryl Sharpton is an unfortunate cut due to his injury, DeMeco Ryans should be asked to redo his deal, Matt Schaub should be asked to redo his deal (missed extensive time three out of the last five years) Kareem Jackson should be asked to redo his deal, Garrett Graham should be cut, Matt Leinart should be cut...there is money hidden all up and down this roster, and our FO should look to use that money. Now, this money should also be used to resign C Chris Myers (who very well could be asking for Nick Manigold-like money this offseason) and RB Arian Foster (who should be in line for Peterson/CJ1K money) but...if we're strategic with the books, we should be able to get a deal done that pays Mario and still leaves some scratch on the cap to go after some much needed parts.
If I were to see an exhaustive listing of all current salaries, I might be able to find some places to hack and slash at the payroll while keeping the core intact...but I'll leave that up to the cap experts. I fully expect a house cleaning of sorts to get the cap needed to make the moves needed.
10. FAs to keep in mind as we approach the reload known as the offseason:
CB Marcus Trufant - The signing of Jonathan Joseph, the continued demise of Jackson and the lack of production of CB Brandon Harris tells me everything I need to know: This team is better off with vets manning the CB spot over rookies...PROVEN vets at that. Trufant, Rashean Mathis and Terrance Newman are the names to know in that respect. Newman might be had at a lower rate (as he's one of Wade's guys) but Trufant probably is the most bang for your buck and is probably on his way out of Seattle, as they're putting together a nice secondary full of young, physical guys.
CB Terrance Newman - One of Wade's guys, he just played the last year of his massive deal and Jerruh is probably looking to get younger at the spot...as well as have a "need" for this time next year when "The Honey Badger" Tyron Matheau is draft eligible. Newman knows the system, knows the terms, knows the philisophy...and won't be coming at $8MM, which is big. He'd be close to his home in Dallas as well, so it makes sense to throw out a line and see if he bites. Dimes to dollars says he's the starting #2 CB for the Texans next year, and Newman/Joseph would be a dynamic tandem.
WR Early Doucet - The Cardinals seem to be set with a tandem of Larry Fitzgerald and Andre Roberts at WR, and I have no clue as to why. I mean, I know why Fitz would be there...but Roberts isn't that special to me, and Doucet proved to be the better WR this year outgaining him from the #3 role. Now, it's not seen as if Doucet could replicate the efforts playing as a #2, but he is a low-risk/high-reward type signing. Sure, a Reggie Wayne or Dwayne Bowe is a sexier name, but the money that would be tied up in a co-#1 WR role would be pretty heavy.
WR Mario Manningham - The guy had his #2 role taken away by the dynamic Victor Cruz, but he is still a pretty mover for the Giants with some big playoff experience under his belt. If the Giants let him test the waters, the Texans better be a team in the hunt for him.
WR Marquis Colston/Robert Meachem - With Drew Brees due a HUGE payday and deals due to the likes of Carl Nicks, one of these two dynamic WRs will be shuttled off to FA. Granted, it's feasable that Colston is probably due #1 WR money like Wayne/Bowe...and it's feasable that he gets this money from the Saints...so that leaves us with Meachem, a bit of an underachiever since being drafted in the 1st round. A long term deal that is heavily structured to pay at the end of the deal should allow Meachem to start off as the #2, make his way through the DC and eventually take on the #1 role as AJ makes his way to the #2 role. Honestly, I can see us parting ways with Jacoby AND Walter to make this one happen...and I wouldn't be upset in the least (and I'm a BIG KW believer).
WR Limas Sweed - Ok, the guy was a bust in Pittsburgh. He never managed to recapture that magic that made him a monster in college, and the ruptured achillies heel didn't help him out any. I'm seeing a chance for a low-risk/high-reward on the guy...let him work on our roster as a #4/#5 guy, use it as an extended try out for the fella. If he can step up and show SOME sort of ability, he could be a steal. If not...well, no harm, no foul.
WR Roscoe Parrish - This one is an anomaly, but could be a savvy pickup. His WR skills aren't exactly the best, but it's not as if he is BAD. His biggest contribution is on KR/PR, where he has got outstanding speed, great vision in the return game, and has sure hands fielding punts and kickoffs. No botched plays from this guy...and as Sunday showed, we need that.
All in all, my ideal Texans WR unit would look like so:
1. Andre Johnson
2. Robert Meachem
3. Roscoe Parrish (KR/PR)
4. Jeff Maehl
5. Limas Sweed
6. (PS) Lestar Jean
Affordable, and very dangerous in its own right. Meachem can be replaced by Doucet or Manningham and it would still be pretty stout. If all else fails, look to the draft and find that AJ understudy; Nick Toon, Mohammad Sanu, Ashton Jeffrey (who is dropping like a stone) or Kendall Wright would be sexy names to keep in mind.
My ideal CB unit would be:
1. Jonathan Joseph
2. Terrance Newman
3. Kareem Jackson/Brice McCain
4. Brice McCain/Brandon Harris
5. Roc Carmichael/Sherrick McManis
Again - Very affordable. I am steadfast in not using the first two rounds on a CB, so we have to be on the forefront of getting one of the CBs who hit the open market.
Ok, I'm done for now.
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bmore4life815
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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Gotta tell you guys, this is definitely one of my favorite vids on Youtube right now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTNc-CNZ9zc
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bmore4life815
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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Injuries are certainly a big reason why Andre's numbers don't look spectacular on a career scale, and it may come back to seriously haunt his first-ballot HOF chances, but he is CLEARLY better than Rison, Moulds, and pretty much everyone else Apollo listed. Even if he ends up with a Jimmy Smith-esque statline and doesn't make it in, I know I won't forget that he was one of the top 5 best receivers I ever got to watch play (which has been since the early '90s).
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bmore4life815
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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^^^
Arian is top 3 for sure, but better than All Day? Eh.... I'm not seeing it.
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EliteTexan80
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 37190
Location: Three time Mr. fanTASTic!
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| bmore4life815 wrote: | ^^^
Arian is top 3 for sure, but better than All Day? Eh.... I'm not seeing it. |
I'm giving Foster the edge for now based on two things:
1. The ACL injury is a career derailer. As someone who has blow out both knees (blew out my left knee twice, blew out my right knee once) I know it takes a LOT to come back to 80% of the normal range of motion, and the muscle atrophy is always a challenge to come back from. Now, I know I'm just a desk jockey and AP is a finely tuned athlete...but scar tissue is scar tissue, muscle atrophy happens no matter what.
Even in the most extreme cases, we've seen RBs take anywhere from 12-18 months to come back at "100%" following an ACL injury. APs was a BAD ACL injury, took out his MCL as well. Two years from now, AP could take his place back as the #1 guy, but for now...Foster is the better guy.
2. Both AP and Foster are great RBs; You can line them up in the backfield and hand off to them on the stretch play, a dive up the middle, the toss sweep and get some great results. However, AP doesn't bring the same type of impact that Foster does in the passing game, which is the BIGGEST thing that people don't factor in when talking about him. Foster is a threat to beat you no matter how you try to gameplan for him: You can stack 8 in the box and the Texans will motion Foster in the slot or out wide, and he's a danger to catch and run. The Texans can set up the screen to Foster and he's going to follow his lead blockers and make plays in that respect. The Texans can send him out into the flats and he can gash teams in that respect as well. This isn't a one-time thing, mind you...remember, last season Foster did BETTER in the passing game, so it's a staple of his production.
AP is a hit-or-miss target in the passing game; He doesn't have natural hands, he tends to body-catch and doesn't have the overall awareness to make catches on poorly thrown passes. (Not that I have seen, at least...) Foster makes those plays on a weekly basis.
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