Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Why We Are 3-6 - The Stats - Week 10
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Washington Redskins
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 8189
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:05 pm    Post subject: Why We Are 3-6 - The Stats - Week 10 Reply with quote

There have been lots of opinions flying around as to why we are losing, who's to blame and what needs to be upgraded. These are the actual stats.

Stats are through Week 10.

The stats are listed followed by our NFL ranking in each stat. The numbers in parenthesis are the stats from last week.

Points per Game – 25.6 (25.4) – #9 (#12)
Points Allowed per Game – 31.9 (31.6) – #31 (#31)
Turnover Margin – 0 (-1) – #15 (#17)
Time of Possession – 31:48 (31:17) – #8 (#11)
Interception TDs – 4 (4) – Tied #1 (Tied #1)
Fumble TDs – 1 (1) – Tied #6 (Tied #5)


OFFENSE

Total Yards per Game – 410.4 (407.6) – #5 (#5)
Yards per Play – 5.8 (5.9) – #8 (#Cool
3rd Down % - 46% (44%) – #4 (#4)
Fumbles Lost – 5 (5) – Tied #9 (Tied #14)
Interceptions – 11 (11) – Tied #24 (#27)


Passing Yards per Game – 259.2 (261.4) – #10 (#12)
Average Yards per Completion – 7.2 (7.2) – Tied #14 (Tied#17)
Pass Plays Over 20+ Yards – 24 (21) – #26 (#29)
# of Passing 1st Downs – 128 (111) – Tied #8 (Tied #10)
Passing TDs – 12 (9) – Tied #20 (Tied #25)


Rushing Yards per Game – 151.2 (146.2) – #3 (#6)
Average Yard per Attempt – 5.1 (5.0) – #1 (Tied #1)
Rush Plays Over 20+ Yards – 12 (11) – #3 (#3)
# of Rushing 1st Downs – 70 (61) – Tied #6(#7)
Rushing TDs – 12 (12) – #3 (Tied #2)


Sacks given up – 18 (14) – #6 (#6)
QB Hits Allowed – 54 (4Cool – #24 (#22)


DEFENSE

Total Yards Allowed per Game – 388.6 (398.Cool – #27(#30)
Yards Allowed per Play – 6.1 (6.1) – #29 (#29)
3rd Down % - 38% (35%) - #14 (#Cool
Interceptions – 10 (9) – Tied #14 (Tied #13)
Forced Fumbles – 7 (6) – Tied #21 (Tied #22)

Passing Yards Allowed per Game – 274.8 (282.1) – #26 (#2Cool
Average Yards Allowed per Completion – 8.3 (8.3) - #30 (#29)
Pass Plays Allowed Over 20+ Yards – 37 (32) – #28 (Tied #25)
# of Passing 1st Downs Allowed – 133 (119) – #29 (Tied #2Cool
Passing TDs Allowed – 19 (17) – Tied #28 (Tied #27)

Rushing Yards Allowed per Game – 113.8 (116.6) – #18 (#22)
Average Yards Allowed per Attempt – 4.3 (4.4) – Tied #22 (Tied #21)
Rush Plays Allowed Over 20+ Yards – 5 (5) – Tied #12 (Tied #14)
# of Rushing 1st Downs Allowed – 62 (56) – Tied #26(Tied #25)
Rushing TDs Allowed – 12 (10) – Tied #29 (Tied #27)


SPECIAL TEAMS

Average Yards on Kick Returns – 20.0 (19.4) – #31 (#31)
Average Yards on Punt Returns – 6.1 (6.5) – #30 (#25)
% Field Goals Made – 67% (70%) – #31 (#32)
Average Yards per Punt – 40.8 (40.4) – #32 (#32)
Net Average Yards per Punt – 34.0 (34.1) – #32 (#32)
Punts Inside the 20 – 14 (14) – Tied #21 (Tied #15)


PENALTIES

Total Penalties – 59 (51) – #17 (#12)
Total Penalty Yards – 511 (448) – #16 (#15)
_________________

Thanks to mike23md for the sig

Adopt - a - Redskin
Bashaud Breeland - 34 tackles, 7 PD, 2 FF, 2 TFL, 1 INT
Jordan Reed - 24 catches, 229 rec yards


Last edited by MKnight82 on Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:37 pm; edited 5 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mike23md


Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 8029
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Why Are We Losing - The Stats Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
There have been lots of opinions flying around as to why we are losing, who's to blame and what needs to be upgraded. These are the actually stats.

Stats are through 7 games played, obviously they don't include the Monday night football game that will occur tonight.

The stats are listed following by our NFL ranking in each stat. Stats that are bolded indicate that we are #20 or worse in the NFL in that stat.

TEAM PERFORMANCE

Points per Game – 24.7 - #10
Points Allowed per Game – 32.7 - #31

OFFENSE

Total Yards per Game – 394.4 - #7
Yards per Play – 22.9 - #9
3rd Down % - 40% - #12


Passing Yards per Game – 254.1 - #10
Average Yards per Completion – 11.8 - #12
Pass Plays Over 20+ Yards – 16 - #30
# of Passing 1st Downs – 99 - #10
Passing TDs – 9 - #20


Rushing Yards per Game – 137.3 - #6
Average Yard per Attempt – 5.0 – Tied #1
Rush Plays Over 20+ Yards – 9 - #3
# of Rushing 1st Downs – 48 - #10
Rushing TDs – 8 – Tied #4


Sacks given up – 14 - #6
QB Hits Allowed – 48 - #26

DEFENSE

Total Yards Allowed per Game – 397.1 - #29
Yards Allowed per Play – 6.0 - #29
3rd Down % - 36% - #8

Passing Yards Allowed per Game – 273.7 – Tied #27
Average Yards Allowed per Completion – 8.4 - #29
Pass Plays Allowed Over 20+ Yards – 27 - #24
# of Passing 1st Downs Allowed – 99 - #22
Passing TDs Allowed – 15 – Tied #25

Rushing Yards Allowed per Game – 123.4 - #29
Average Yards Allowed per Attempt – 4.4 – Tied #24
Rush Plays Allowed Over 20+ Yards – 5 – Tied #17
# of Rushing 1st Downs Allowed – 52 - #29
Rushing TDs Allowed – 5 – 10 - #31


SPECIAL TEAMS

Average Yards on Kick Returns – 19.0 - #31
Average Yards on Punt Returns – 6.5 – Tied #23
% Field Goals Made – 70% - #31

PENALTIES

Total Penalties – 42 - #9
Total Penalty Yards – 368 - #8

The only negatives on offense are that we don’t have a lot of explosive passing plays over 20+ yards and that we aren’t scoring that many passing TDs. However, we are #10 in the NFL in total scoring so we are making up for this by running the ball well (which is what our offensive gameplan is).

The defense is obviously the problem. VERY interesting is that we are #8 in the NFL in 3rd down %, meaning we are getting burned on 1st & 2nd downs.

Special Teams have been awful. Everyone knows this.


And who was it that called me out about the defense being the one to not lose games?

It is clearly the defense.

Haslett needs to go. For 3 years now we have had consistently bad defenses and things are only getting worse. Why is he up in the box and not down on the field coaching his players.

Preferably, I would like to see Shanahan go. I would like to get a young defensive minded coach in here that will build our defense. That will motivate our defense. Inspire guys to play. We don't have an offense that can outscore people every game.

So we have to have a defense that can shut down offenses. While our offense eats up clock and doesn't abandon the run with the lead.
_________________

2015 REDSKINS DRAFT HOPEFUL
2015 NFL MOCK DRAFT
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 8189
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm thinking about making this a continuous thread where I'll update it each week. Hopefully the data will help improve the discussion in the forum by providing some evidence of whats going on rather than everyone just stating a bunch of differing opinions.
_________________

Thanks to mike23md for the sig

Adopt - a - Redskin
Bashaud Breeland - 34 tackles, 7 PD, 2 FF, 2 TFL, 1 INT
Jordan Reed - 24 catches, 229 rec yards
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
A TRAIN 89


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 947
Location: the land of plenty
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great post.

One caveat I would say is those offensive numbers seem to be inflated due to the first 4 games. We were blown out early and had a lot of garbage time yards and points. Also, these stats don't put into perspective what bad positions the offense / special teams puts the defense in. I would argue that the offense is worse than the stats show and the defense is slightly better than the stats show.

Still though, these numbers put everything into perspective and really show us that we aren't who we think we are, we are a 2-5 team.

Good stuff.
_________________
RIP SSF
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Thaiphoon


Moderator
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 15317
Location: Northern Virginia
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A TRAIN 89 wrote:
Great post.

One caveat I would say is those offensive numbers seem to be inflated due to the first 4 games. We were blown out early and had a lot of garbage time yards and points. Also, these stats don't put into perspective what bad positions the offense / special teams puts the defense in. I would argue that the offense is worse than the stats show and the defense is slightly better than the stats show.

Still though, these numbers put everything into perspective and really show us that we aren't who we think we are, we are a 2-5 team.

Good stuff.


Agreed. And Mike23md, remember that our offense has been poor too. Alot of the problems the defense has had has been because the offense puts them on the field way too long.
_________________


Being Vague Is Almost As Much Fun As That Other Thing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 8189
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thaiphoon wrote:
A TRAIN 89 wrote:
Great post.

One caveat I would say is those offensive numbers seem to be inflated due to the first 4 games. We were blown out early and had a lot of garbage time yards and points. Also, these stats don't put into perspective what bad positions the offense / special teams puts the defense in. I would argue that the offense is worse than the stats show and the defense is slightly better than the stats show.

Still though, these numbers put everything into perspective and really show us that we aren't who we think we are, we are a 2-5 team.

Good stuff.


Agreed. And Mike23md, remember that our offense has been poor too. Alot of the problems the defense has had has been because the offense puts them on the field way too long.
Ill see if I can find Time of Possession to add to the list.
_________________

Thanks to mike23md for the sig

Adopt - a - Redskin
Bashaud Breeland - 34 tackles, 7 PD, 2 FF, 2 TFL, 1 INT
Jordan Reed - 24 catches, 229 rec yards
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 65392
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How many times has the offense or special teams put the defense in a very short field or given up tds themselves?

How many times has the defense scored?

Those count towards the scoring points, don't they?

These stats are bogus in a few areas and very misleading. Especially in the scoring areas.

The defense gets better every week, but it can't be asked to bail an inconsistent offense and special every week.

As others said, a lot of the offensive scoring and yards have come in garbage time. The offense rarely posses the ball long enough to let the defense catch it's breath, review things with its position coaches and make adjustments.

Let's just take away the tds that the defense has scored for this putrid offense and see how they are in scoring.

Week 1: D Hall fumble return for a td
Week 3: D Hall int returned for TD
Week 4: Amerson int return for TD
Week 7: Orakpo return for TD
Week 8: D Hall int returned for TD

Take those 35 points away from our scoring and we lose:

33-20 to Philly
27-13 to Det
41-38 to Chi
45-14 to Denv

And only beat Oak by a FG.

You see, without or defense scoring points for this team we'd only have one win.

Our offensive scoring a game is a putrid... 19.7 pts a game.

That puts us at 25th in the NFL in scoring on offense! Nice try Mknight82. Wink
_________________
RIP SSFmike23md

"God made certain people to play football... Sean was one" JG
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 8189
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
How many times has the offense or special teams put the defense in a very short field or given up tds themselves?

How many times has the defense scored?

Those count towards the scoring points, don't they?

These stats are bogus in a few areas and very misleading. Especially in the scoring areas.

The defense gets better every week, but it can't be asked to bail an inconsistent offense and special every week.

As others said, a lot of the offensive scoring and yards have come in garbage time. The offense rarely posses the ball long enough to let the defense catch it's breath, review things with its position coaches and make adjustments.

Let's just take away the tds that the defense has scored for this putrid offense and see how they are in scoring.

Week 1: D Hall fumble return for a td
Week 3: D Hall int returned for TD
Week 4: Amerson int return for TD
Week 7: Orakpo return for TD
Week 8: D Hall int returned for TD

Take those 35 points away from our scoring and we lose:

33-20 to Philly
27-13 to Det
41-38 to Chi
45-14 to Denv

And only beat Oak by a FG.

You see, without or defense scoring points for this team we'd only have one win.

Our offensive scoring a game is a putrid... 19.7 pts a game.

That puts us at 25th in the NFL in scoring on offense! Nice try Mknight82. Wink
I wasn't trying to push an agenda here. These stats are here for people to make their own opinion. I plan on updating this throughout the season from now on. It took some time and effort to put this together, and its an ongoing process. I'm definitely open to suggestions on additional stats to display.

The intent of this thread is to promote intelligent discussion instead of random observation and opinion. You've instead come in here and decided to insult me instead. Stay classy.
_________________

Thanks to mike23md for the sig

Adopt - a - Redskin
Bashaud Breeland - 34 tackles, 7 PD, 2 FF, 2 TFL, 1 INT
Jordan Reed - 24 catches, 229 rec yards
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 65392
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
How many times has the offense or special teams put the defense in a very short field or given up tds themselves?

How many times has the defense scored?

Those count towards the scoring points, don't they?

These stats are bogus in a few areas and very misleading. Especially in the scoring areas.

The defense gets better every week, but it can't be asked to bail an inconsistent offense and special every week.

As others said, a lot of the offensive scoring and yards have come in garbage time. The offense rarely posses the ball long enough to let the defense catch it's breath, review things with its position coaches and make adjustments.

Let's just take away the tds that the defense has scored for this putrid offense and see how they are in scoring.

Week 1: D Hall fumble return for a td
Week 3: D Hall int returned for TD
Week 4: Amerson int return for TD
Week 7: Orakpo return for TD
Week 8: D Hall int returned for TD

Take those 35 points away from our scoring and we lose:

33-20 to Philly
27-13 to Det
41-38 to Chi
45-14 to Denv

And only beat Oak by a FG.

You see, without or defense scoring points for this team we'd only have one win.

Our offensive scoring a game is a putrid... 19.7 pts a game.

That puts us at 25th in the NFL in scoring on offense! Nice try Mknight82. Wink
I wasn't trying to push an agenda here. These stats are here for people to make their own opinion. I plan on updating this throughout the season from now on. It took some time to put this together, and I'm definitely open to suggestions on additional stats to display. You don't have to be rude about it.
Hey, I winked... Wink I think you should do what I did. Have a running total of the defensive scores. Subtract that from the offensive scoring each week, and then, and only then will you get an accurate tally on what our offense is really doing.

Yards are nice, but we had a lot of yards in 09 and 2011 also, a lot of it was in garbage time and our offense couldn't score in the red zone when it needed to...

Sound familiar?
_________________
RIP SSFmike23md

"God made certain people to play football... Sean was one" JG
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 8189
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
How many times has the offense or special teams put the defense in a very short field or given up tds themselves?

How many times has the defense scored?

Those count towards the scoring points, don't they?

These stats are bogus in a few areas and very misleading. Especially in the scoring areas.

The defense gets better every week, but it can't be asked to bail an inconsistent offense and special every week.

As others said, a lot of the offensive scoring and yards have come in garbage time. The offense rarely posses the ball long enough to let the defense catch it's breath, review things with its position coaches and make adjustments.

Let's just take away the tds that the defense has scored for this putrid offense and see how they are in scoring.

Week 1: D Hall fumble return for a td
Week 3: D Hall int returned for TD
Week 4: Amerson int return for TD
Week 7: Orakpo return for TD
Week 8: D Hall int returned for TD

Take those 35 points away from our scoring and we lose:

33-20 to Philly
27-13 to Det
41-38 to Chi
45-14 to Denv

And only beat Oak by a FG.

You see, without or defense scoring points for this team we'd only have one win.

Our offensive scoring a game is a putrid... 19.7 pts a game.

That puts us at 25th in the NFL in scoring on offense! Nice try Mknight82. Wink
I wasn't trying to push an agenda here. These stats are here for people to make their own opinion. I plan on updating this throughout the season from now on. It took some time to put this together, and I'm definitely open to suggestions on additional stats to display. You don't have to be rude about it.
Hey, I winked... Wink I think you should do what I did. Have a running total of the defensive scores. Subtract that from the offensive scoring each week, and then, and only then will you get an accurate tally on what our offense is really doing.

Yards are nice, but we had a lot of yards in 09 and 2011 also, a lot of it was in garbage time and our offense couldn't score in the red zone when it needed to...

Sound familiar?
Do you know a site that lists offensive score totals only? I mean I can calculate the Redskins one easy enough but I don't want to have to calculate all 32 teams and then rank them.
_________________

Thanks to mike23md for the sig

Adopt - a - Redskin
Bashaud Breeland - 34 tackles, 7 PD, 2 FF, 2 TFL, 1 INT
Jordan Reed - 24 catches, 229 rec yards
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 65392
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
How many times has the offense or special teams put the defense in a very short field or given up tds themselves?

How many times has the defense scored?

Those count towards the scoring points, don't they?

These stats are bogus in a few areas and very misleading. Especially in the scoring areas.

The defense gets better every week, but it can't be asked to bail an inconsistent offense and special every week.

As others said, a lot of the offensive scoring and yards have come in garbage time. The offense rarely posses the ball long enough to let the defense catch it's breath, review things with its position coaches and make adjustments.

Let's just take away the tds that the defense has scored for this putrid offense and see how they are in scoring.

Week 1: D Hall fumble return for a td
Week 3: D Hall int returned for TD
Week 4: Amerson int return for TD
Week 7: Orakpo return for TD
Week 8: D Hall int returned for TD

Take those 35 points away from our scoring and we lose:

33-20 to Philly
27-13 to Det
41-38 to Chi
45-14 to Denv

And only beat Oak by a FG.

You see, without or defense scoring points for this team we'd only have one win.

Our offensive scoring a game is a putrid... 19.7 pts a game.

That puts us at 25th in the NFL in scoring on offense! Nice try Mknight82. Wink
I wasn't trying to push an agenda here. These stats are here for people to make their own opinion. I plan on updating this throughout the season from now on. It took some time to put this together, and I'm definitely open to suggestions on additional stats to display. You don't have to be rude about it.
Hey, I winked... Wink I think you should do what I did. Have a running total of the defensive scores. Subtract that from the offensive scoring each week, and then, and only then will you get an accurate tally on what our offense is really doing.

Yards are nice, but we had a lot of yards in 09 and 2011 also, a lot of it was in garbage time and our offense couldn't score in the red zone when it needed to...

Sound familiar?
Do you know a site that lists offensive score totals only? I mean I can calculate the Redskins one easy enough but I don't want to have to calculate all 32 teams and then rank them.
no, but maybe we could just keep track of our offensive and our defensive scores.

The defensive scores from our team this year have given this team more of a boost and competitiveness than the offense so far.

IMO
_________________
RIP SSFmike23md

"God made certain people to play football... Sean was one" JG
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Woz


Moderator
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 20872
Location: in a land where the furniture folds to a much smaller size
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
Thaiphoon wrote:
A TRAIN 89 wrote:
Great post.

One caveat I would say is those offensive numbers seem to be inflated due to the first 4 games. We were blown out early and had a lot of garbage time yards and points. Also, these stats don't put into perspective what bad positions the offense / special teams puts the defense in. I would argue that the offense is worse than the stats show and the defense is slightly better than the stats show.

Still though, these numbers put everything into perspective and really show us that we aren't who we think we are, we are a 2-5 team.

Good stuff.


Agreed. And Mike23md, remember that our offense has been poor too. Alot of the problems the defense has had has been because the offense puts them on the field way too long.
Ill see if I can find Time of Possession to add to the list.


http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&role=TM&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&d-447263-s=TIME_OF_POSS_SECONDS_PER_GAME_AVG

Washington - 30:01 (20th)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Thaiphoon


Moderator
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 15317
Location: Northern Virginia
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Know why we're also losing?

We keep playing starting QBs.

The only wins we have are against backups
_________________


Being Vague Is Almost As Much Fun As That Other Thing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 65392
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our defense is averaging 5 points per game! Cool

That's gotta be top 3 in the NFL behind the Bears and Chiefs I would think
_________________
RIP SSFmike23md

"God made certain people to play football... Sean was one" JG
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 65392
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thaiphoon wrote:
Know why we're also losing?

We keep playing starting QBs.

The only wins we have are against backups
we've also played some of the best qbs in the NFL and lost. Here are there Qb rankings IMO:

1. Peyton Manning
2. Rodgers
7. Stafford
8. Romo

After we play the chargers and Rivers, we don't play any more elite or great qbs but Romo, but we get him at home this time, and he didn't beat us in Dallas - Dwayne Harris did.
_________________
RIP SSFmike23md

"God made certain people to play football... Sean was one" JG
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Washington Redskins All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group