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Richter
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
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 Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:36 am Post subject: |
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| dliverey wrote: | I am not a fan of Burfict, I love the intensity but he does not control it. He has alot of personal fouls because he does not control his emotions. He does not wrap up very well rather he goes for the knock out shot and he leads with the crown of the helmet. I don't know if he is disciplined enough to stick with a gap assignment. When I have watched him he seems to freelamce alot. If we played a more aggressive defense I would be all in.
If you draft Burfict instead of Minnifield I don't think you can get as good of a DB in the 4th, so for me the choice was Minnifield and McClellin vs Burfict and Jammel Fleming. |
I really think Burfict gets a bad rap on the personal foul stuff - so many of them were reputation calls from overzealous referees. I also don't think he respected the coaching staff at ASU at all, because, let's face it, Dennis Erickson is a massive loser and deserves no one's respect as a football coach. That likely lead to a lot of the freelancing and undisciplined play. He does go for the kill-shot too often, but he's certainly capable of wrapping up and playing assignment football, because he did it prior to last season. It would be a gamble, but I think the defense needs an injection of attitude and aggressiveness that it's lacked in recent years, and I don't see too many other guys that play like Burfict. I'd be happy with just one of those guys, though, to go along with a solid defensive line prospect and another defensive back. Hit on three picks like that, and the defense could return to elite status in a hurry. |
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dliverey
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:59 am Post subject: |
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I just went and watched some you tube videos of Burfict and he plays very fast. I would definately be on board with him being a Patriot if he could stay under control. I am curious though where do you see him fitting. I think his best fit would be 3-4 WOLB.
A LB core of Burfict-Spikes(Fletcher)-Mayo-Higthtower would be pretty nice. I would be much happier if we switched the Fairbanks for a one gap attacking 3-4, but thats not going to happen. I do like the 4-3 from time to time. |
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Richter
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 9281
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| dliverey wrote: | I just went and watched some you tube videos of Burfict and he plays very fast. I would definately be on board with him being a Patriot if he could stay under control. I am curious though where do you see him fitting. I think his best fit would be 3-4 WOLB.
A LB core of Burfict-Spikes(Fletcher)-Mayo-Higthtower would be pretty nice. I would be much happier if we switched the Fairbanks for a one gap attacking 3-4, but thats not going to happen. I do like the 4-3 from time to time. |
I could see Burfict all over the place, but I'd probably want him to play on the strong side if Hightower wasn't up to covering tight ends consistently. The Patriots play a ton of nickel, and I'd really like to see something like Burfict-Mayo-Hightower behind a heavy line of Cox-Wilfork-Deaderick if this two linebacker draft fantasy actually came to pass. I'd be more than happy with something like what you proposed if Hightower, Mayo and Anderson were on the field on passing downs, especially if it would relegate Ninkovich to being a depth player. Spikes could assume his natural role as a two down plugger inside, Ninkovich and Fletcher could be quality subs and with Minnifield, they could trot out two big corners to go with Chung at safety. There's a quality rotation in the works amongst the front seven players if they go this direction in the draft. |
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goldfishwars
Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Posts: 5346
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:45 am Post subject: |
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| dliverey wrote: | This is what I would like the draft to look like. Addressing the Defense and WR core. I Do not think that Branch will be back. I also do not feel that Center is as big a need as others, so I did not address it
1a. Hightower-I think he will be a 3-4 SOLB or 3-4 SILB. If Spikes gets healthy then Hightower will OLB.
1b. Cox-Can play 4-3 DT or 3-4 DE (5 tech). He is not as stout against the run as I would like, but he has a huge amount of potential.
2a. Minnifield- I am not as down on the CB's as others are, but I am down on the Safety's. By drafting Minnifield it will allow one of the current CB's to play FS. I think we will see alot of McCourty at FS against Denver tomorrow.
2b. Dwight Jones- Big target at WR. I think that the pats need at least one big WR. He has inconsistent hands, but runs good routes and can stretch the field.
3. McClellin- Very explosive off the ball and uses his hands very well. Has played DE, OLB and ILB for Boise St. I think he would be a dynamic OLB for us. My #1 BINKY or man crush
4. Jarius Wright- very fast and shifty. Will eventually play in the slot.
Please give feedback and opinions as to where you think this mock could be improved. |
This is a pretty nice mock.
Thoughts:
I'm starting to think we'd be lucky to land Hightower in the 1st. I think he's probably gone in the mid-teens when you factor in the needs of other teams.
I love the Fletcher Cox pick - huge upside with this guy and is a 4-3 DT and five-technique guy who will give us great versatility on the D-line.
I quite like the Chase Minnifield pick (if he's available), I think the guy is pretty underrated when you consider that no-one wanted to throw near the guy when you saw him play. Great pedigree too.
No a fan of the Dwight Jones pick. I doubt he'd be available here anyway, but if he was - then it's because teams have passed on his ability to run complex routes. Huge physical upside - but what could he give us that our Tight-Ends don't already provide? I'd hope there's a Safety worth taking here as it's not a deep class (at all!)
I like the Shea McClellin pick - he's a big sleeper in this draft and would be excellent value here. My only concerns is that he has a Brooks Reed type laucnh up the boards post combine and workouts.
I love the Jarius Wright pick - if we can land him here then it would be a steal. Huge quickness, asked to run complex routes in a pro-style offense - so much to like about him from a team fit perspective.
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goldfishwars
Joined: 27 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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I thought I'd knock out a mock draft as other have been doing so. I think that Dont'a Hightower will be off the board by the time we pick - but he remains my binkie and if he does fall we should gobble him up!
1a) Mohamed Sanu, WR - Rutgers
He's a versatile, instinctive wideout you can line-up anywhere out wide. He has a great initial burst and can make some pretty amazing circus catches. Rutgers guy too.
1b) Mark Barron, S - Alabama
The Safety class is weak - let's take one early. He's massively physical and played on a talented complex, pro-style defense in Alabama and is considered to have improved his insticts considerably.
2a) Billy Winn, DE/DT - Boise State
He's a little bit of a tweener, but Bill likes role players on Defense and he's someone who could line up 4-3 DE, T and 3-4 DE and that versatility is useful moving forward. He seems like a solid all-rounder with run-stopping and rushing ability.
2b) Casey Heyward, CB - Vanderbilt
He's a smart, canny defender with excellent insitcts and playmaking ability. Maybe he's not a physical corner, but he is someone whose intelligence could lead him to develop quickly in our scheme.
3) Shea McClellin, DE/OLB - Boise State
Another Boise pick - which is slightly strange. He's an under the radar guy who could develop into a starter at the next level. He has a high-motor and would get looks as a pass-rushing situaional DE (ala Mark Anderson) and is a fluid enough athlete to play as a 3-4 OLB.
4) Demario Davis, OLB - Arkansas State
He's been my late-round binkie ever since I heard Wes Bunting talking him up. He could get looks as an inside or outside linebacker in our 4-3 sets as a run defender and gets off blocks easily to make stops. His insticts for pass plays look good too. He'd excel on our Special Teams too.
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goldfishwars
Joined: 27 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:34 am Post subject: |
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Any thoughts on the mock guys?
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mcmurtry86
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 16176
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| goldfishwars wrote: | | Any thoughts on the mock guys? |
It's good. I think at this point most mocks have a lot of the same guys:
Mohamed Sanu, Jarius Wright, Joe Adams
Billy Winn, Fletcher Cox, Devon Still
Shea McClellin, Cam Johnson
Mark Barron, Markelle Martin, George Iloka
So I'm not sure how much feedback you'll really get, despite it being a decent mock. |
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ctpatsfan77
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 2377
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:52 am Post subject: |
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Good work so far.
One suggestion from a readability standpoint: It would help if you added some sort of "dividers" to break up the text (e.g., add color to the positions, or lines of dashes between them, or something). Nothing big (I like the pretty, but I prefer the useful).
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ThePatriot
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Posts: 189
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| I think your mock makes too much sense for it to actually happen. |
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goldfishwars
Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Posts: 5346
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:17 am Post subject: |
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Just wondering if last night's game will have an effect on where we go in the draft.
One area I think needs looking at is the interior D-line. Love has been solid for us - but he was absolutely handled last night. We need a force inside to compliment Vince and there's plenty of nice interior options to be had in the 1st and 2nd rounds. The class is deep - so there's a lot of value to be had here.
Solid 1st Rounders
Michael Brockers - LSU
Devon Still - Penn State
Borderline 1st Rounders/2nd Round Picks
Brandon Thompson - Clemson
Fletcher Cox - Mississippi State
Jerel Worthy - Michigan State
Dontari Poe - Memphis
Jared Crick - Nebraska
2nd/3rd Rounders
Alameda Ta'amu (might rise during draft process) - Washington
Josh Chapman - Alabama (could drop with injury concerns - might be mid-round bargain)
Kendall Reyes
Billy Winn
*Marcus Forston
Intriguing Mid-To Late Options
Kheeston Randall
Mike Martin
DaJohn Harris
Derek Wolfe
That's 16 players who (in my opinion) would offer us something on the interior D.
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goldfishwars
Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Posts: 5346
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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I did a full seven-round mock in the mock draft thread.
This is how the Pats picks came out:
27. Devon Still - DT
31. Mark Barron - SS
48. *Mohamed Sanu - WR
62. Jamell Fleming - CB
93. Kyle Wilber - DE/OLB
126. Philip Blake - C
These aren't necessarily the picks I would make, but picks I can see us making.
Basically I see no way we leave the 1st round without getting an interior defender. Still wouldn't have been my first choice, but with Cox and Brockers off the board, Devon Still the kind of pile-pushing five-technique we need.
A lot of people have Mark Barron going higher than 31 recently, with teams needing safeties early on. I think there's a chance with his current injury concerns that he could fall to us here. What about Pat Chung? I think he could be cut if we make this pick - just missed way too many games.
Mohamed Sanu is someone whose draft stock has taken a bit of a tumble of late and the likes of Reuben Randle and Stephen Hill have surpassed him on many boards. I know he divides opinions, but with the Rutgers connections and his versatility make him an intriguing prospect.
Jamell Fleming is a corner I've liked the look of the more I see him. He's an imposing physical back (not many corners weighing in over 200 pounds) and I think we just need to get bigger and more physical in that position in general.
Kyle Wilber is the kind of 3-4 End I see us going after. He plays the position in college, he's long, he can naturally drop into coverage and he is stout against the run. He's not a spectacular rusher - but there's a lot to like in Wilber.
Phillip Blake is raw, but I can see us taking a Center - especially if Koppen leaves. He's got the physical tools to take over at the position after a year behind Connolly, picking up some snaps at Guard along the way.
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goldfishwars
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mcmurtry86
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 16176
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| goldfishwars wrote: | I did a full seven-round mock in the mock draft thread.
This is how the Pats picks came out:
27. Devon Still - DT
31. Mark Barron - SS
48. *Mohamed Sanu - WR
62. Jamell Fleming - CB
93. Kyle Wilber - DE/OLB
126. Philip Blake - C
These aren't necessarily the picks I would make, but picks I can see us making.
Basically I see no way we leave the 1st round without getting an interior defender. Still wouldn't have been my first choice, but with Cox and Brockers off the board, Devon Still the kind of pile-pushing five-technique we need.
A lot of people have Mark Barron going higher than 31 recently, with teams needing safeties early on. I think there's a chance with his current injury concerns that he could fall to us here. What about Pat Chung? I think he could be cut if we make this pick - just missed way too many games.
Mohamed Sanu is someone whose draft stock has taken a bit of a tumble of late and the likes of Reuben Randle and Stephen Hill have surpassed him on many boards. I know he divides opinions, but with the Rutgers connections and his versatility make him an intriguing prospect.
Jamell Fleming is a corner I've liked the look of the more I see him. He's an imposing physical back (not many corners weighing in over 200 pounds) and I think we just need to get bigger and more physical in that position in general.
Kyle Wilber is the kind of 3-4 End I see us going after. He plays the position in college, he's long, he can naturally drop into coverage and he is stout against the run. He's not a spectacular rusher - but there's a lot to like in Wilber.
Phillip Blake is raw, but I can see us taking a Center - especially if Koppen leaves. He's got the physical tools to take over at the position after a year behind Connolly, picking up some snaps at Guard along the way. |
The Pats are going to draft Barron and cut Chung? Does not compute.
That would make their safety group WORSE for next year - no easy feat.
Regardless, Barron is looking like a top 20, possibly top 15 pick. At 31 he's a pipe dream.
I also don't understand why people are projecting Still to be a 5-technique. He seems like an ideal 4-3 3-technique who could maybe play 5-tech in a 1-gap scheme. But as a 2-gapper? I think that's not playing to his strengths. He might be able to do it, but there are better options to be found there.
Also, replacing Mark Anderson with Kyle Wilber seems crazy. The Pats have to find a quality edge player early in the draft because their current 4-3 DE/3-4 OLB group is appalling. |
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dhunt2402
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 16666
Location: The District
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| mcmurtry86 wrote: | The Pats are going to draft Barron and cut Chung? Does not compute.
That would make their safety group WORSE for next year - no easy feat.
Regardless, Barron is looking like a top 20, possibly top 15 pick. At 31 he's a pipe dream.
I also don't understand why people are projecting Still to be a 5-technique. He seems like an ideal 4-3 3-technique who could maybe play 5-tech in a 1-gap scheme. But as a 2-gapper? I think that's not playing to his strengths. He might be able to do it, but there are better options to be found there.
Also, replacing Mark Anderson with Kyle Wilber seems crazy. The Pats have to find a quality edge player early in the draft because their current 4-3 DE/3-4 OLB group is appalling. |
Yeah I agree with all of this. Cutting Chung is a moronic idea.
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goldfishwars
Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Posts: 5346
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| mcmurtry86 wrote: | | The Pats are going to draft Barron and cut Chung? Does not compute. |
Not an immediate cut, but if we drafted Barron and recently signed Gregory and then when you factor in CB conversions options at FS it might happen at the end of 2012. He's in a contract year and has missed a lot of football. I'm not advocating it btw, but it would not shock me.
| Quote: | | Regardless, Barron is looking like a top 20, possibly top 15 pick. At 31 he's a pipe dream. |
He's recovering from double-hernia surgery, it could totally happen.
| Quote: | | I also don't understand why people are projecting Still to be a 5-technique. He seems like an ideal 4-3 3-technique who could maybe play 5-tech in a 1-gap scheme. But as a 2-gapper? I think that's not playing to his strengths. He might be able to do it, but there are better options to be found there. |
He's a space-eater with long-arms, I'd say he's a really good fit for us in either front and this is a widely-held view.
| Quote: | | Also, replacing Mark Anderson with Kyle Wilber seems crazy. The Pats have to find a quality edge player early in the draft because their current 4-3 DE/3-4 OLB group is appalling. |
Firstly, in an ideal world we trade down and get more picks. We're not going fix all our needs in this draft without doing that.
Secondly - who said he was a replacement for Anderson? You want to spend a high-pick on a one-down speed-rusher who you can run on all-day? No thanks. Those guys are dime-a-dozen and you can find one in free agency for chump change like we did last year. Wilber is a nice comprimise when you realise none of the pass-rush prospects who will be available when we pick would be worth taking with a high-draft pick.[/quote]
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