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The Goldfishwars Patriots Draft Guide
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Richter

Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 9309

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:01 am Post subject:

One other interesting guy to add to the pile: Chandler Jones, who looks like he stepped straight out of the Belichick laboratory for edge rusher cloning. He's going to announce whether he's turning pro at 3:30 PM tomorrow.

Sciz

Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 12833
Location: Iowa

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:05 am Post subject:

Richter wrote:

Ah yes. I watched his last game this season, but had forgotten about him since then. He's the poor guy who had his 2 TFL, 1 pick game overshadowed by Brandon Lindsey's pick, sack, 2 FF game Laughing

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goldfishwars

Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Posts: 5349

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:55 am Post subject:

Richter wrote:

Also, there are some guys not listed that I think could be on the Patriots' radar, but the guy I'm liking right now as I'm doing a little early draft preparation is Kendall Reyes out of UConn. I know, I know, another UConn guy, but he's one of the few linemen in this draft that has the size, the frame, the athleticism and the speed to play as a versatile 5 tech for the Pats' defense.

He is on the list.

He could be a steal in the 3rd round. I like him a lot - very high ceiling, can play 4-3 DT or five technique, bit raw - but would make an excellent project.
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jerb2011

Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 1164

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:31 pm Post subject:

What are your opinions on bigger play-making recievers like Dwight Jones and Juron Criner? I like them, they are both great route-runners, have deep speed and can make the acrobatic catch. They are of the Sidney Rice/ Marques Colston mold of receivers.

Or what about recievers like Muhamed Sanu (Rutgers), Marvin McNutt (Iowa), and BJ Cunningham (Michigan State). Sanu is a Wes Welker/ Reggie Wayne type of receiver, McNutt reminds me of Jordy Nelson, and BJ Cunningham is that Anquan Boldin/ David Givens type of receiver.

Also, on defense, how do you feel about Billy Winn (Boise State), Whitney Mercilus (Illinois), or Chase Thomas (Stanford)?
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mcmurtry86

Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 16192

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:47 pm Post subject:

jerb2011 wrote:

Criner doesn't really have great speed. It's adequate, and he's not slow, but I'd be surprised if he ran better than 4.5 at the combine.

Also, Dwight Jones' route running isn't really that great - it's one of his biggest flaws. It's not horrible, but he definitely would need a lot of polish before being able to succeed in New England.

Quote:

Sanu is a Wes Welker/ Reggie Wayne type of receiver,

Sanu is likely staying in college and I'm not sure how Welker and Wayne are particularly comparable other than being reliable and good route runners.

jerb2011

Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 1164

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:05 pm Post subject:

mcmurtry86 wrote:

jerb2011 wrote:

Quote:

Sanu is a Wes Welker/ Reggie Wayne type of receiver,

Sanu is likely staying in college and I'm not sure how Welker and Wayne are particularly comparable other than being reliable and good route runners.

For deep speed, I mean a long stride, like Jerry Rice. I am NOT comparing anybody to Jerry Rice but he ran a 4.6, but deep speed and route-running got him so open down the field.

Dwight Jones is not a bad route runner, he's fluid.

And for by Welker/ Wayne, that's exactly what I mean-good hands and route-running
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mcmurtry86

Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 16192

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:42 am Post subject:

Richter wrote:

Jones is going pro and I hope the Pats look at him in round 3 or even with their own 2nd rounder.

Richter

Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 9309

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:53 am Post subject:

mcmurtry86 wrote:

Richter wrote:

Jones is going pro and I hope the Pats look at him in round 3 or even with their own 2nd rounder.

If he turns out to be the athlete I expect at the combine, he might not make it that far. Not that he's anywhere near Aldon Smith's class in terms of pass rush skills coming out of college, but he's the nearest thing to Smith in terms of physical makeup. Super long arms and good hands. Same reason I haven't ignored Melvin Ingram, despite the fact that he looks to be about 6'1" - those arms will let him play bigger.

Richter

Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 9309

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:55 am Post subject:

goldfishwars wrote:

Richter wrote:

He is on the list.

I know he was, I was just mentioning that there were some guys that aren't that I think could be of potential interest to the Pats, and I phrased it that way when noting Reyes to make it clear I wasn't just talking about guys on the original list. I could have been a lot clearer about it.

goldfishwars

Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Posts: 5349

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:44 am Post subject:

Quote:

They should be around when we pick, either in the 1st (Jones) or the 2nd (either) - unless Dwight's stock skyrockets after a strong combine. The thing I like about Jones is that he plays to his size and can really attack the air. My concern with him is that he hasn't shown much as a route runner (what he does is fine, but he isn't asked to do very much!) and he isn't an elusive runner - he won't get you yards after the catch. He's someone who has suffered with QB play - so he might check out better than he has shown on tape.

I'm kind of a bit down on Criner. He has a similar frame to Jones - but doesn't use it half as well. He probably has better ability after the catch than Jones and make players miss. He doesn't block and has struggled to get open in a pass-happy offense at times. He also has questions around his health (undisclosed medical stuff) and is coming off a toe injury.

I'm kind of torn on whether we need a big receiver or not. We have two red zone guys anyway and we have smaller receivers that keep possession ticking over.

One option might be to trade down and get two receivers of each body type. If you want a big, then Jeff Fuller from Texas A & M is probably better value if you can get him rounds 3 onwards in the draft. If we take any big early (1st two rounds) - I'd spend it on Marvin McNutt. QB convert, he's a smart receiver who runs better routes that those two and has shown he makes plenty of plays in the endzone.

Quote:

Or what about recievers like Muhamed Sanu (Rutgers), Marvin McNutt (Iowa), and BJ Cunningham (Michigan State). Sanu is a Wes Welker/ Reggie Wayne type of receiver, McNutt reminds me of Jordy Nelson, and BJ Cunningham is that Anquan Boldin/ David Givens type of receiver.

I like Sanu a lot, but it's 99% certain he's returning this year. McNutt I've just discussed. Cunningham is a possession guy and has enjoyed good production, not very athletic - comparisons with Boldin sound about right. He's another receiver whose position will be dictated by the draft process. I'd prefer a receiver with some speed and there are other options that are more attractive.

Quote:

Also, on defense, how do you feel about Billy Winn (Boise State), Whitney Mercilus (Illinois), or Chase Thomas (Stanford)?

Winn is the kind of D-line we've been spending too many picks on. He's a 3-4 End plugger only for me, could get pushed around a bit as a 4-3 DT. Could be interesting as a run-stopping 4-3 End - but wouldn't be much value inside the first two rounds.

I like Mercilus a lot, he's a raw - but relentless pass-rusher from the edge. He looks a little stiff-hipped and there are doubts he'd make a transition to a 3-4 OLB, therefore his value drops if we're mixing the sets around more next year. He's likely to go in the 1st or top of the 2nd and for that reason isn't much value.

Chase Thomas might not declare this year. I'm not sure what to make of him, some are high on the guy - others not. He's not a DE, despite his size , so would only suit playing 3-4 as a rusher and doesn't appear to have coverage skills to pay SAM. He's one of those who will either be a draft day steal (can't see him going higher than 4th round due to the depth of the class) with some eagle-eyed scout spotting something in him or he'll end up as a decent situational/special teams guy somewhere.
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jerb2011

Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 1164

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:30 pm Post subject:

I agree 100% with everything you said, especially this:

Quote:

I like Mercilus a lot, he's a raw - but relentless pass-rusher from the edge. He looks a little stiff-hipped and there are doubts he'd make a transition to a 3-4 OLB, therefore his value drops if we're mixing the sets around more next year. He's likely to go in the 1st or top of the 2nd and for that reason isn't much value.

I really don't see what people see in him as a 3-4 OLB prospect. He has just an okay burst off of the line and he looks stiff when he bends and turns and slides his feet to me, as well.
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Method B

Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 38

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:45 am Post subject: Re: The Goldfishwars Patriots Draft Guide

goldfishwars wrote:

Safety

I don't susbscribe to the idea we look at FS only. Chung is banged up a lot of the time and he has experience of playing FS anyway. This is a BPA situation and we should look at a guy in the 2nd where the value seems to be.

Is it far-fetched to look at LaVonte David (LB, Nebraska) as a strong safety? He is not at all lost in coverage, can turn and run with tight ends, tackles well.

goldfishwars

Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Posts: 5349

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:23 am Post subject: Re: The Goldfishwars Patriots Draft Guide

Method B wrote:

goldfishwars wrote:

Is it far-fetched to look at LaVonte David (LB, Nebraska) as a strong safety? He is not at all lost in coverage, can turn and run with tight ends, tackles well.

Definitely not far fetched, a lot of scouts have pegged him as a possible convert because of his lack of ideal size and good coverage skills.

This time last week, he was an under the radar guy - pegged around late 2nd/3rd round. I personally think he'll make a a good starting weak side linebacker. The cat is kind of out of the bag with his excellent showing at the Capital One Bowl and some observers now thinking he could see late 1st round attention. That's a high-price to pay for someone you want to convert, especially when you see the likes of D'Qwell Jackson and Brian Rolle excelling in the NFL as 'undersized' linebackers this season - when the blueprint is already there teams are more willing to make the leap, so he's less likely to drop.

I'm hearing good things about Antonio Allen's performance for South Carolina yesterday. He definitely comes into the equation for Safety prospects.
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Method B

Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 38

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:04 am Post subject: Re: The Goldfishwars Patriots Draft Guide

goldfishwars wrote:

This time last week, he was an under the radar guy - pegged around late 2nd/3rd round. I personally think he'll make a a good starting weak side linebacker. The cat is kind of out of the bag with his excellent showing at the Capital One Bowl and some observers now thinking he could see late 1st round attention. That's a high-price to pay for someone you want to convert, especially when you see the likes of D'Qwell Jackson and Brian Rolle excelling in the NFL as 'undersized' linebackers this season - when the blueprint is already there teams are more willing to make the leap, so he's less likely to drop.

Zach Brown and Travis Lewis might get bigger interest (than David) from 43s teams looking for a weakside/nickel OLB.

goldfishwars

Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Posts: 5349

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: The Goldfishwars Patriots Draft Guide

Method B wrote:

goldfishwars wrote:

Zach Brown and Travis Lewis might get bigger interest (than David) from 43s teams looking for a weakside/nickel OLB.

Zach Brown yeah, I think David is a better prospect than Lewis.
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