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Stone85


Joined: 30 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spanos Norv Manusky 187
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Incidental contact? His blind are you?


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Duffman57


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm actually more dissapointed with keeping AJ than i am with keeping Norv. I think that Norv can offensive gameplan well, but honestly, we need a defensive coach to keep that side of the ball on the field and have a chance.

Just another interesting stat we had, this year as opposed to last year. We are the first team in NFL History, to outscore their opponenets, and not win the division.

You can say this is on Norv, but the Execution, not the scheme, has been the problem (on Defense its a COMPLETELY different story). We need a hardnosed DC (for some reason Manusky got the hype of one, and he isn't in the SLIGHTEST) to play an aggressive D, and have a D that can keep our offense in games when their struggling. We have a really solid group on D, if we add some pieces to it, then we could have a VERY good team.

AJ hasn't brought talent into this team, and he makes things with players a personal vendetta and just starts bashing them for no reason, like LT, Donnie, Jackson, and McNeil. He's a Jerk, and the reason that he doesn't sign any FA's, is that there is no give and take to his negotiations. He refuses to give FA's long term deals, and only gives them 2 year deals, and basically gives them a leave it or take it deal, and that doesnt work with players these days.

At least Manusky has basically been guaranteed to be fired. I guess the staff has regretted that signing since the day he was signed. If we get a guy who can compliment Norv, i think this team can do a very good job.
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Everything about Rivers is Awkward, reminiscent of a Giraffe with Down's Syndrome


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Stone85


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More like 17th post.. lol
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AntonioGates


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duffman57 wrote:


Just another interesting stat we had, this year as opposed to last year. We are the first team in NFL History, to outscore their opponenets, and not win the division.


This can't be true...


Quote:
AJ hasn't brought talent into this team, and he makes things with players a personal vendetta and just starts bashing them for no reason, like LT, Donnie, Jackson, and McNeil. He's a Jerk, and the reason that he doesn't sign any FA's, is that there is no give and take to his negotiations. He refuses to give FA's long term deals, and only gives them 2 year deals, and basically gives them a leave it or take it deal, and that doesnt work with players these days.

Agreed. But in the end Donnie Edwards and LT did nothing once they left and McNeill was signed long term. And as good as VJ is I don't know if I would trust him enough to hand him a 6 or 7 year deal.
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Duffman57


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stone85 wrote:
More like 17th post.. lol


Yah, i deleted that part, i honestly just copied and pasted my response from the CMB thread about the same thing mindlessly. But i think i'm done with there for a little bit, since its going to basically be hell freezing over and the devil is here.
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MrDrew wrote:
Everything about Rivers is Awkward, reminiscent of a Giraffe with Down's Syndrome
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Stone85


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, haha. And yea, the good old CMB lol.

AJ shouldn't be fired IMO. I wanted him fired after the MM/VJ debacle, but since then he has done well. Just a little stubborn. As long as he gets rid of Clary and English, me and him are straight lol.
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MrDrew


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stone85 wrote:
Oh, haha. And yea, the good old CMB lol.

AJ shouldn't be fired IMO. I wanted him fired after the MM/VJ debacle, but since then he has done well. Just a little stubborn. As long as he gets rid of Clary and English, me and him are straight lol.


The problem is that he won't get rid of Clary. It's not like Clary has got any worse, he's continued to play at the same level, and he got a huge deal. He'll keep getting the start too.

Look what happened with Sporles. Instead of giving him a reasonable long-term deal, he kept paying $7+ million, and then he lost him. Look at what that did. Think it's a coincidence that Brees is breaking records, and River's production went down? It's not.
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Duffman57


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntonioGates wrote:
Duffman57 wrote:


Just another interesting stat we had, this year as opposed to last year. We are the first team in NFL History, to outscore their opponenets, and not win the division.


This can't be true...


Quote:
AJ hasn't brought talent into this team, and he makes things with players a personal vendetta and just starts bashing them for no reason, like LT, Donnie, Jackson, and McNeil. He's a Jerk, and the reason that he doesn't sign any FA's, is that there is no give and take to his negotiations. He refuses to give FA's long term deals, and only gives them 2 year deals, and basically gives them a leave it or take it deal, and that doesnt work with players these days.

Agreed. But in the end Donnie Edwards and LT did nothing once they left and McNeill was signed long term. And as good as VJ is I don't know if I would trust him enough to hand him a 6 or 7 year deal.


Yah, it didn't sound right, But my dad said that it was in the SD paper, i dont think that can be right though...

True, but we're turning into the Redsox durring the drought. Noboby ever leaves on a good note with us, everyone leaves hating us, and we just cant seem to win, even if those players did struggle after they left.

Hopefully we get a great DC, and our D can keep our O in games when we struggle and quite a few of our games will be salvaged.
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Everything about Rivers is Awkward, reminiscent of a Giraffe with Down's Syndrome
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JammerHammer21


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duffman57 wrote:
AntonioGates wrote:
Duffman57 wrote:


Just another interesting stat we had, this year as opposed to last year. We are the first team in NFL History, to outscore their opponenets, and not win the division.


This can't be true...


Quote:
AJ hasn't brought talent into this team, and he makes things with players a personal vendetta and just starts bashing them for no reason, like LT, Donnie, Jackson, and McNeil. He's a Jerk, and the reason that he doesn't sign any FA's, is that there is no give and take to his negotiations. He refuses to give FA's long term deals, and only gives them 2 year deals, and basically gives them a leave it or take it deal, and that doesnt work with players these days.

Agreed. But in the end Donnie Edwards and LT did nothing once they left and McNeill was signed long term. And as good as VJ is I don't know if I would trust him enough to hand him a 6 or 7 year deal.


Yah, it didn't sound right, But my dad said that it was in the SD paper, i dont think that can be right though...

True, but we're turning into the Redsox durring the drought. Noboby ever leaves on a good note with us, everyone leaves hating us, and we just cant seem to win, even if those players did struggle after they left.

Hopefully we get a great DC, and our D can keep our O in games when we struggle and quite a few of our games will be salvaged.


Of course they are going to be angry leaving. It means we didn't want them. Everyone who has left has had a huge ego, minus Brees. LT had a huge one and hated Smith. Sproles trashed us. Edwards bad mouthed us all the time.

Say what you will about AJ, but he has kept our core together. Rivers, Gates, McNeill, Dielman, Weddle. As long as he keeps Gaither and Hardwick around, he'll be doing fine. I put the blame on the coaching staff for not developing most of our players. Manusky has to go.
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Duffman57


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JammerHammer21 wrote:
Duffman57 wrote:
AntonioGates wrote:
Duffman57 wrote:


Just another interesting stat we had, this year as opposed to last year. We are the first team in NFL History, to outscore their opponenets, and not win the division.


This can't be true...


Quote:
AJ hasn't brought talent into this team, and he makes things with players a personal vendetta and just starts bashing them for no reason, like LT, Donnie, Jackson, and McNeil. He's a Jerk, and the reason that he doesn't sign any FA's, is that there is no give and take to his negotiations. He refuses to give FA's long term deals, and only gives them 2 year deals, and basically gives them a leave it or take it deal, and that doesnt work with players these days.

Agreed. But in the end Donnie Edwards and LT did nothing once they left and McNeill was signed long term. And as good as VJ is I don't know if I would trust him enough to hand him a 6 or 7 year deal.


Yah, it didn't sound right, But my dad said that it was in the SD paper, i dont think that can be right though...

True, but we're turning into the Redsox durring the drought. Noboby ever leaves on a good note with us, everyone leaves hating us, and we just cant seem to win, even if those players did struggle after they left.

Hopefully we get a great DC, and our D can keep our O in games when we struggle and quite a few of our games will be salvaged.


Of course they are going to be angry leaving. It means we didn't want them. Everyone who has left has had a huge ego, minus Brees. LT had a huge one and hated Smith. Sproles trashed us. Edwards bad mouthed us all the time.

Say what you will about AJ, but he has kept our core together. Rivers, Gates, McNeill, Dielman, Weddle. As long as he keeps Gaither and Hardwick around, he'll be doing fine. I put the blame on the coaching staff for not developing most of our players. Manusky has to go.


True, but the way AJ gets into a pissing contest with these guys, I just think is classless from a GM.

I agree, but i'd also like to see some younger, talented FA's. I'm not saying superstars, like Mario Edwards, but guys like who i've pointed out, Martellus Bennett, Quentin Groves/Ahmad Brooks and/or Eddie Royal types.

Thinking about this D, it is now the time to get rid of our SC coach, and almost our entire medical staff (long list of BIG problems there, with our players and off the field). I just dont see any improvement here. Guys aren't in shape, they are consistently getting little niks and bangs, which keeps them out 3 or 4 weeks. We just need something to change there.
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MrDrew wrote:
Everything about Rivers is Awkward, reminiscent of a Giraffe with Down's Syndrome
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrDrew wrote:
Stone85 wrote:
Oh, haha. And yea, the good old CMB lol.

AJ shouldn't be fired IMO. I wanted him fired after the MM/VJ debacle, but since then he has done well. Just a little stubborn. As long as he gets rid of Clary and English, me and him are straight lol.


The problem is that he won't get rid of Clary. It's not like Clary has got any worse, he's continued to play at the same level, and he got a huge deal. He'll keep getting the start too.

Look what happened with Sporles. Instead of giving him a reasonable long-term deal, he kept paying $7+ million, and then he lost him. Look at what that did. Think it's a coincidence that Brees is breaking records, and River's production went down? It's not.


How do we know that Sproles would have signed for the deal that he did with New Orleans here? By all accounts he was said to have been asking for top returner money during his contract back-and-forths here. Now, even if we throw out Devin Hester's abnormality of a contract, we're talking Joshua Cribbs type money (probably slightly more than that considering Cribbs' deal was signed in '08) which is more than $6.5m/yr. The deal he signed with New Orleans was for $2m/yr less and that was after he took his services out in UFA and didn't find quite as many suitors willing to offer him starter's money as his agent had him convinced he would.

And Brees is breaking records because Payton is practically implementing the identical strategy to what Tom Moore was for Peyton Manning when he was setting records - forego the run and just pass, pass, and spread 'em out 4-deep and pass some more. You swap out Clary for even an average RT and implement that scheme with our current personnel and Rivers breaks those exact same records (Sproles or no Sproles) - provided he actually makes the correct reads and the open receiver actually makes the catch (something I can't confidently say for Jackson any longer as he body-catches too much).
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duffman57 wrote:
True, but the way AJ gets into a pissing contest with these guys, I just think is classless from a GM.

I agree, but i'd also like to see some younger, talented FA's. I'm not saying superstars, like Mario Edwards, but guys like who i've pointed out, Martellus Bennett, Quentin Groves/Ahmad Brooks and/or Eddie Royal types.

Thinking about this D, it is now the time to get rid of our SC coach, and almost our entire medical staff (long list of BIG problems there, with our players and off the field). I just dont see any improvement here. Guys aren't in shape, they are consistently getting little niks and bangs, which keeps them out 3 or 4 weeks. We just need something to change there.


What would you have him do, just acquiesce to their demands? He does that more than once (and even then that once better be for a face of the franchise type player) and agents will be citing that as precedent.

Feel free to go about finding where he publicly trashed players while he was still in negotiations with them (as opposed to well after they were on the roster of another team - after said players had already fired the first shot at him and our team), because I sure as heck don't remember them. As is AJ's not exactly what you'd call verbose in the media - I'm of the belief that he uses Acee very strategically but if you don't think other GM's are doing the exact same thing with their beat writers, you're kidding yourself. Same as his "hard line" tactics, which were not much if any different than those taken by the more "touted" successful GM's over these past couple years of collective bargaining agreement uncertainty.

As to not going too heavily into signing free agents - folks are going to find fault with what he does one way or another if the guys don't turn out to be studs. Fact is they're depth signings - and we have had some successful ones over the same time period (Burnett - for his time, Hughes, Spikes - to some degree, he certainly has had his utility, Barnes, McMichael, Manumaleuna). You also have to weigh in the fact that over the past three offseasons we've had some of the more prominent players in our organization come up for free agency - many at the same period of time - there's only so much money and signings that can go around and first priority should always be given to retaining our own that are worth retaining - or have we forgotten so quickly that over those past three offseasons, amid the CBA uncertainty, we retained our franchise QB, our elite (among the GOAT) TE, our franchise LOT (no matter how average he may be, and given the way that his health issues have persisted along with his average level of play, who can really fault AJ for being tenuous about giving him a Top 5 equivalent contract?), our best secondary player (and captain of our defense).

If our coaching staff could develop young players better and more effectively and we could actually manage to have a competent DC that knows how to use our players effectively for more than a season and a half, I have little doubt that we could make a Super Bowl with AJ Smith at the helm of the franchise.

Honestly, the biggest criticism I have of the guy is that his trades are entirely too reactive and not nearly enough proactive. I have no issue parting with draft picks if it brings in a player of high quality that can hit the ground running (in some respects, more so specific to certain positions, I'd rather use a 1st or 2nd round pick to that aim rather than spend it on an unproven rookie who will still require development). And I would like us to see us pursuing some speculative pickups a bit more often where it's a low risk/high reward situation capitalizing on the troubles of another franchise versus us being in patch-the-dam mode and having to part with picks because we failed to get "our guys" at the positions of need we were looking to fill (see the Chambers trade, trading up for Mathews, trading up for Hester). We've done it a bit, you could consider the Crayton trade one such, and the Travis Johnson trade certainly one... we just haven't hit on the right players when doing so... and that's the way those kinds of trade can tend to work out.
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Duffman57


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
Duffman57 wrote:
True, but the way AJ gets into a pissing contest with these guys, I just think is classless from a GM.

I agree, but i'd also like to see some younger, talented FA's. I'm not saying superstars, like Mario Edwards, but guys like who i've pointed out, Martellus Bennett, Quentin Groves/Ahmad Brooks and/or Eddie Royal types.

Thinking about this D, it is now the time to get rid of our SC coach, and almost our entire medical staff (long list of BIG problems there, with our players and off the field). I just dont see any improvement here. Guys aren't in shape, they are consistently getting little niks and bangs, which keeps them out 3 or 4 weeks. We just need something to change there.


What would you have him do, just acquiesce to their demands? He does that more than once (and even then that once better be for a face of the franchise type player) and agents will be citing that as precedent.

Feel free to go about finding where he publicly trashed players while he was still in negotiations with them (as opposed to well after they were on the roster of another team - after said players had already fired the first shot at him and our team), because I sure as heck don't remember them. As is AJ's not exactly what you'd call verbose in the media - I'm of the belief that he uses Acee very strategically but if you don't think other GM's are doing the exact same thing with their beat writers, you're kidding yourself. Same as his "hard line" tactics, which were not much if any different than those taken by the more "touted" successful GM's over these past couple years of collective bargaining agreement uncertainty.

As to not going too heavily into signing free agents - folks are going to find fault with what he does one way or another if the guys don't turn out to be studs. Fact is they're depth signings - and we have had some successful ones over the same time period (Burnett - for his time, Hughes, Spikes - to some degree, he certainly has had his utility, Barnes, McMichael, Manumaleuna). You also have to weigh in the fact that over the past three offseasons we've had some of the more prominent players in our organization come up for free agency - many at the same period of time - there's only so much money and signings that can go around and first priority should always be given to retaining our own that are worth retaining - or have we forgotten so quickly that over those past three offseasons, amid the CBA uncertainty, we retained our franchise QB, our elite (among the GOAT) TE, our franchise LOT (no matter how average he may be, and given the way that his health issues have persisted along with his average level of play, who can really fault AJ for being tenuous about giving him a Top 5 equivalent contract?), our best secondary player (and captain of our defense).

If our coaching staff could develop young players better and more effectively and we could actually manage to have a competent DC that knows how to use our players effectively for more than a season and a half, I have little doubt that we could make a Super Bowl with AJ Smith at the helm of the franchise.

Honestly, the biggest criticism I have of the guy is that his trades are entirely too reactive and not nearly enough proactive. I have no issue parting with draft picks if it brings in a player of high quality that can hit the ground running (in some respects, more so specific to certain positions, I'd rather use a 1st or 2nd round pick to that aim rather than spend it on an unproven rookie who will still require development). And I would like us to see us pursuing some speculative pickups a bit more often where it's a low risk/high reward situation capitalizing on the troubles of another franchise versus us being in patch-the-dam mode and having to part with picks because we failed to get "our guys" at the positions of need we were looking to fill (see the Chambers trade, trading up for Mathews, trading up for Hester). We've done it a bit, you could consider the Crayton trade one such, and the Travis Johnson trade certainly one... we just haven't hit on the right players when doing so... and that's the way those kinds of trade can tend to work out.


Lol, this is the exact argument i had with my dad last night on the ride back home from the Rose Bowl (GO DUCKS Cool ), and i was saying the same thing, when he used that argument, and his responce, was that "YOU WERENT THERE" when all this kind of stuff happens and talked about how he read the paper every day and how all this kind of stuff happened when i wasn't a very aware charger fan (i only started to get big into chargers football, though i was always a fan my whole life, like 3 years ago). So i, obviously believed him. (god i love that old man "you werent there" type argument...LOL)

And i'm honestly not asking for big FA's, but there's just no give and take to his relationship. When's the last time we offered a young guy that wasn't a backup in FA's. I liked the Burnett Signing, but he was a nobody when he was playing for Dallas. Like I said, i want some decently young guys, who still have year's left in their career, and have been starters for a team. Like the guys i listed.

Yah, my biggest problem with him has been the trade ups (some of that was how he managed the roster, like going into a season with no RB's on the roster in 2010), and getting hard headed with HIS guys, and doing WAY too much to get them with any slight doubt rather than stay put and get the best value where we are.
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MrDrew wrote:
Everything about Rivers is Awkward, reminiscent of a Giraffe with Down's Syndrome
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Duffman57


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntonioGates wrote:
Duffman57 wrote:


Just another interesting stat we had, this year as opposed to last year. We are the first team in NFL History, to outscore their opponenets, and not win the division.


This can't be true...


OK so i think i figured this out. We're the only team in NFL history, to be the only one in the division to outscore the opponents, but not make the playoffs.
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MrDrew wrote:
Everything about Rivers is Awkward, reminiscent of a Giraffe with Down's Syndrome
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
We have had one successful one over the same time period Burnett.

The problem I have with most of our signings is either they completely suck (Spikes, Laboy) or they're no duh signings (Gaither, Barnes).

I would put Tommie Harris in the successful ones if he has a similar season next year.
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