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Stone85
Joined: 30 Jun 2010
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 Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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Well Terrell Thomas does match the current scheme. He's a really good zone corner and the only reason they won't resign him is they have Prince Amukamara waiting to start. Don't even know why they drafted him honestly, yea he fell to them but even so it was completely unneccesary.
I'd love to have Thomas start at the #1 spot with Gilchrist competing with Cason for #2 and preferably Cason getting the nickel spot. Hughes and Wright are decent depth and Weddle is solid and Jammer should be a pretty good SS as well.
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| MaddHatter wrote: | | Incidental contact? His blind are you? |
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MrDrew
Joined: 10 Apr 2008
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Location: Evil League of Evil
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Stone85 wrote: | | Well Terrell Thomas does match the current scheme |
New HC, new DC, new OC, and probably a new GM coming soon. The scheme now may not be the scheme in a couple of months. By the time next season starts, the team could be running a WCO, and 4-3 Tampa 2. We're all only assuming things are going to stay the same.
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JammerHammer21
Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 18068
Location: Anywhere
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| lakeroy wrote: | my updated mock
Free agents: Eddie Royal, LaDainian Tomlinson
Resign: Hardwick, Jackson, Gaither, Hester, Goodman, Sperry, Harris, Windt
I am assuming McNeill retires and Dielman and Hardwick return.
1. Nick Perry, OLB, USC
2. Mike Adams, OT, Ohio State
3. Coby Fleener, TE, Stanford
4. Winston Guy, S, Kentucky
5. Marquise Maze, WR, Alabama
6. Jerry Franklin, ILB, Arkansas
7. Star Lotulelei, NT, Utah |
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| Bohlmann20 (On The 95 Cleveland Browns Staff) wrote: | | Lombardi - Isn't that the guy the trophy is named after? If so, top 3 coach of all time. |
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Stone85
Joined: 30 Jun 2010
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Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:39 am Post subject: |
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Pretty sure the LT thing was a joke.
IF NOT I MISSED A GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR THE 50 CENT GIF
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| MaddHatter wrote: | | Incidental contact? His blind are you? |
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JammerHammer21
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Stone85
Joined: 30 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:48 am Post subject: |
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Thank you for posting dope render, sir.
BTW.. Just checked the CMB for the first time in like forever, god I miss that place, but anyway saw your sig there and it really stuck out. Whoever Sean is, he makes awesome sigs.
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| MaddHatter wrote: | | Incidental contact? His blind are you? |
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The LBC
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 15541
Location: Long Beach, CA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| Stone85 wrote: | Well Terrell Thomas does match the current scheme. He's a really good zone corner and the only reason they won't resign him is they have Prince Amukamara waiting to start. Don't even know why they drafted him honestly, yea he fell to them but even so it was completely unneccesary.
I'd love to have Thomas start at the #1 spot with Gilchrist competing with Cason for #2 and preferably Cason getting the nickel spot. Hughes and Wright are decent depth and Weddle is solid and Jammer should be a pretty good SS as well. |
Because he was straight up value. Same reason they drafted JPP the year before or Marvin Austin in the 2nd round, when they already had Tuck, Osi, and Kiwianuka on the roster.
Unless it's a position where only one player is likely to play that position for you for the next 5+ years and is already on your roster (and is already a Pro Bowl caliber - or has that kind of upside - player), then taking the Best Player Available is absolutely NEVER unnecessary.
That's pretty ridiculous thinking actually. It's sticking too stringently to need-based drafting in the 1st round these past years that have bitten us in the butt so much. Also, if you take notice of the teams that have been perennially successful and consistently competitive over the past 5-10 years, 90% of them draft BPA early on (Green Bay, NYG, New Orleans, Baltimore, to a slightly lesser extent Pittsburgh, Detroit's on the upswing because of this very strategy).
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| The Cryptkeeper wrote: | | He's Long, he's strong, and down to get the hittin' on. Russell got whacked. |
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Stone85
Joined: 30 Jun 2010
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Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Amukamara was unneccesary because the Giants took him in the first 22 picks or so and Ross, Webster, Thomas, and Coe all start over him. Those four players by themselves make up a solid cornerback group, yet they brought in another CB for no reason and he isn't working out so far, and because they drafted him they have to let Thomas go. Amukamara is a perfect example of BPA not working out, along with the Lions franchise.
BPA isn't always a bad idea though. Dez Bryant was a great pick. Eric Berry was BPA. Joe Haden too I think. Pierre Paul as you mentioned worked out very well. However, we have way too many holes to go BPA.
ROLB
LG
CB
RT (maybe)
We need STARTERS at all of those positions. If we go elsewhere in the first round, that player better be damn good and we better hope we draft a rookie starter in the second and sign atleast 1 free agent starter.
I wouldn't mind BPA if we did something like this:
Sign Terrell Thomas, McNeill starts at RT
1st round: Luke Keuchly
2nd round: LG starter
However, if the BPA wasn't our biggest need, but was instead our 3rd or 4th, then I would still be okay with that as long as the BPA makes a splash impact.
Sign a ROLB starter, McNeill starts at RT
1st round: Dre Kirkpatrick
2nd round: LG starter
The thing is, going BPA would cost us more money because in those two scenarios we have to sign a FA starter.
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| MaddHatter wrote: | | Incidental contact? His blind are you? |
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JammerHammer21
Joined: 27 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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It only makes sense to draft a BPA if you don't have a starter or its at a position where multiple bodies help..... So why would you draft Kuechly?
Lol at Michael Coe and Aaron ross being better. THey are awful.
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The LBC
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 15541
Location: Long Beach, CA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Stone85 wrote: | Amukamara was unneccesary because the Giants took him in the first 22 picks or so and Ross, Webster, Thomas, and Coe all start over him. Those four players by themselves make up a solid cornerback group, yet they brought in another CB for no reason and he isn't working out so far, and because they drafted him they have to let Thomas go. Amukamara is a perfect example of BPA not working out, along with the Lions franchise.
BPA isn't always a bad idea though. Dez Bryant was a great pick. Eric Berry was BPA. Joe Haden too I think. Pierre Paul as you mentioned worked out very well. However, we have way too many holes to go BPA.
ROLB
LG
CB
RT (maybe)
We need STARTERS at all of those positions. If we go elsewhere in the first round, that player better be damn good and we better hope we draft a rookie starter in the second and sign atleast 1 free agent starter.
I wouldn't mind BPA if we did something like this:
Sign Terrell Thomas, McNeill starts at RT
1st round: Luke Keuchly
2nd round: LG starter
However, if the BPA wasn't our biggest need, but was instead our 3rd or 4th, then I would still be okay with that as long as the BPA makes a splash impact.
Sign a ROLB starter, McNeill starts at RT
1st round: Dre Kirkpatrick
2nd round: LG starter
The thing is, going BPA would cost us more money because in those two scenarios we have to sign a FA starter. |
Because draft picks should be judged entirely off of the contribution they make as rookies, right?
Face facts, Amukamara has a higher ceiling than anyone other CB on that Giants roster; Ross has effectively met his ceiling, Thomas has not been and has not shown the capacity to be better than Amukamara can be, Coe and Webster are hardly worth arguing.
Furthermore, drafting Amukamara effectively saves the Giants from having to potentially overpay Thomas to keep him in New York. Because of the demand cornerback tends to be one of the most habitually overpaid positions relative to the actual proven talent of the player.
But, you know, here's novel idea... if you end up drafting so well at a particular position that you end up with a surplus of good players at that position... you could, you know, TRADE one of those players to a needy team for a hefty bounty. It's not like that hasn't been done in the league before.
The entire point of taking BPA is that his talent and upside gives him a stronger potential to make an early impact. Yes, when you draft for need early the guy will probably get on the field as a rookie (because you've basically handed him his spot) but it's still 50:50 whether the guy actually makes meaningful contribution from that gifted spot. Guys with just plain pure talent and athletic ability find ways to force their way onto the field and into more action.
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| The Cryptkeeper wrote: | | He's Long, he's strong, and down to get the hittin' on. Russell got whacked. |
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Stone85
Joined: 30 Jun 2010
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Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| JammerHammer21 wrote: | It only makes sense to draft a BPA if you don't have a starter or its at a position where multiple bodies help..... So why would you draft Kuechly?
Lol at Michael Coe and Aaron ross being better. THey are awful. |
Because Kuechly is one of the best players in the draft and Donald Butler and Luke Kuechly together would be insane for the next 10 years. That would be one of the best position duos in the NFL for a long time. If we had Butler and 3 other young, good ILBs, and we drafted Kuechly, that's practically the same thing as the amukamara situation except Kuechly has a higher floor and ceiling and the positions are different.
Never said Coe and Ross were better. I said they start over Prince which is a fact.
Arguing about the amukamara thing is stupid because we're all mostly in agreement about the BPA situation except for this one instance. When you have 4 good cornerbacks you should never ever draft one in the first round. Period.
I never judged Amukamara based on his rookie season, all I said was he's the 5th cornerback on the depth chart and they spent like the 21st pick on him which is horrible. Even if you trade someone it's just an overall stupid risk in that scenario. Dez was low risk BPA and he's worked out great.
Prince has good potential but there are literally 4 people under the age of 28 starting over him.
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JammerHammer21
Joined: 27 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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You need 3 good corners, and Coe and Ross suck. Its not close to the same. Why do you hate Mouton so much?
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| Bohlmann20 (On The 95 Cleveland Browns Staff) wrote: | | Lombardi - Isn't that the guy the trophy is named after? If so, top 3 coach of all time. |
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Stone85
Joined: 30 Jun 2010
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Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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I don't hate Mouton at all. Actually I forgot about him...
Draft Kuechly and let Mouton play ILB3 and OLB 
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The LBC
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
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Location: Long Beach, CA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Stone85 wrote: | | JammerHammer21 wrote: | It only makes sense to draft a BPA if you don't have a starter or its at a position where multiple bodies help..... So why would you draft Kuechly?
Lol at Michael Coe and Aaron ross being better. THey are awful. |
Because Kuechly is one of the best players in the draft and Donald Butler and Luke Kuechly together would be insane for the next 10 years. That would be one of the best position duos in the NFL for a long time. If we had Butler and 3 other young, good ILBs, and we drafted Kuechly, that's practically the same thing as the amukamara situation except Kuechly has a higher floor and ceiling and the positions are different.
Never said Coe and Ross were better. I said they start over Prince which is a fact.
Arguing about the amukamara thing is stupid because we're all mostly in agreement about the BPA situation except for this one instance. When you have 4 good cornerbacks you should never ever draft one in the first round. Period.
I never judged Amukamara based on his rookie season, all I said was he's the 5th cornerback on the depth chart and they spent like the 21st pick on him which is horrible. Even if you trade someone it's just an overall stupid risk in that scenario. Dez was low risk BPA and he's worked out great.
Prince has good potential but there are literally 4 people under the age of 28 starting over him. |
He's also the 5th CB on the depth chart because he got injured really early on in his time with the Giants and never really got a chance to work his way into the rotation. If he'd have been healthy throughout the preseason and the start of the season, I won't say he'd be starting by now (though with the injuries the Giants have suffered to their secondary this season it wouldn't be an outlandish claim), but he'd definitely be seeing a much great piece of the minutes pie.
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| The Cryptkeeper wrote: | | He's Long, he's strong, and down to get the hittin' on. Russell got whacked. |
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Stone85
Joined: 30 Jun 2010
Posts: 2053
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:02 am Post subject: |
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Super bored, so I made a new mock involving a trade and some BPA drafting for the hell of it.
Chargers trade pick 10 and SS Steve Gregory to Browns for picks 22 and 36
This trade makes sense for both teams. Browns move up and take Michael Floyd, and Chargers move down because:
Round 1 (From Browns from Falcons in Julio trade): Nick Perry, ROLB, USC (This is about where he should be going)
Round 2 (from Browns): Barrett Jones, LG/C/RG/RT, Alabama (Stud)
Round 2: Alameda Ta'amu, NT, Washington (Garay's contract is up and he'll probably want too much money so Ta'amu, the BPA, is perfect. This dude is a force in the run game, ridiculously strong, great frame, and stays in for all three downs. He needs a little pass rushing technique work but that's about it. Could be a top 5 NT by his second season and we'd be set at NT for years with him and Thomas)
Round 3: Jarius Wright, WR, Arkansas (Weapon for Rivers. Floyd looks to be gone and Brown should be fine at WR2 so we need to draft or sign a slot guy. Jarius Wright or AJ Jenkins would be the best slot receiver options here)
Round 4: Isaiah Pead, RB, Cincinatti (Ideal compliment to Mathews. Very good blocking potential, pass catching ability, and is a fast runner who averaged 5.8ypc. Love this guy)
Round 5: Tanner Brock, ILB, TCU (Very good run defender. Physical player who could come in on 3rd and short)
Round 6: Janzen Jackson, S, McNeese St. (2nd round talent but couldn't pass a drug test)
Round 7: Dan Persa, QB, Northwestern (Dual threat QB with good passing ability for a 7th rounder)
Sign: Terrell Thomas CB, John Carlson TE, Steve Smith WR
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